BloodyChamp Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Flair, Jim Cornette and Doug Gilbert will always get a grin out of me ftw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Putski and Christopher were both guys that even as a kid I knew were awful nepotism hires. Putski might've been even worse than the idiotic antics of Lawler. That was a situation of young me saying "this guy can't do ANYTHING." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 3 hours ago, zendragon said: Having sat on this I feel that CM Punk has point with wrestlers being paid on houses draw. NHL, MLB, NBA, and NFL all have salary structures that are based on the athletes getting a certain percentage of revenue. Even the UFC had main eventers getting point of the PPV money. There's no reason where if WWF wrestlers unionized salaries couldn't be tied revenues in a similar fashion (both TV rights money and paid attendance) Absolutely wrestlers should be getting a percentage of everything. But when did Punk say that? Back when he first left WWE? I ask because he most recently said that guaranteed money almost killed the business and that wrestlers would work harder getting paid based on the house; they’d be hungrier. That’s quite the anti-labor about face. Edited May 7 by Technico Support 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 On 5/6/2024 at 9:24 PM, Curt McGirt said: Putski and Christopher were both guys that even as a kid I knew were awful nepotism hires. Putski might've been even worse than the idiotic antics of Lawler. That was a situation of young me saying "this guy can't do ANYTHING." Putski was okay, but the lack of charisma was always gonna hurt him. Even getting on the gas didn't do much for his career. Didn't help that his leg exploded live on PPV. Brian Christopher/Lawler was a pretty good worker. His personal demons though and lack of self awareness was always going to be his undoing. Also, the whole Jim Ross chiding and ridiculing Jerry on commentary about Brian's paternity. It was strange cause how is he going to get out of his old man's shadow if you keeping doing that? It took a goofy comedy gimmick to turn his fortunes around. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 5 minutes ago, Technico Support said: Absolutely wrestlers should be getting a percentage of everything. But when did Punk say that? Back when he first left WWE? I ask because he most recently said that guaranteed money almost killed the business and that wrestlers would work harder getting paid based on the house; they’d be hungrier. That’s quite the anti-labor about face. It's also absolute horseshit when you actually break it down. Guaranteed money didn't kill anything. It sure as hell ain't killing the major stick and ball sports in the United States. You're not working the Cincinnati Gardens on a Tuesday or Wednesday and then doing Louisville Gardens the next night and surviving solely off touring. The vast revenue streams companies have access to subsidize everything and create more opportunities. Also work harder, how? I thought the complaint was these guys need to just slow down. Now they're not doing enough? I would like to see his rationale behind that. I mean I heard Cornette say something to that effect maybe when AEW first came about years ago now, but literally none of it made sense unless you're living in 1986 and don't intend to mentally leave the 1980s anytime soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 That’s like this current BS in English football where most of a clubs income comes from TV vs the gate, yet teams are all raising their season ticket prices, for just that “little bit more.” As if all the nation states and hedge funds didn’t have enough money already. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Everybody's looking for a little bit moooooore... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDo3sGIsOJY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 hours ago, Technico Support said: Absolutely wrestlers should be getting a percentage of everything. But when did Punk say that? Back when he first left WWE? I ask because he most recently said that guaranteed money almost killed the business and that wrestlers would work harder getting paid based on the house; they’d be hungrier. That’s quite the anti-labor about face. I was under the impression that he said something to that effect during his interview with Hewanii. I would agree in WCW too much guaranteed money had guys sitting at home and being lazy on top, I think if you said the salary floor would be connected to the companies profits then you could have the best of both worlds, not going back to Ernie Ladd trying to count the house while working a side headlock but at the same time giving everyone incentive to make the product as good as possible 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 3 hours ago, elizium said: leave it to Vince to use penis size as the determining factor "ALL RIGHT PAL, WHIP IT OUT!!!" 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 17 hours ago, zendragon said: I was under the impression that he said something to that effect during his interview with Hewanii. I would agree in WCW too much guaranteed money had guys sitting at home and being lazy on top, I think if you said the salary floor would be connected to the companies profits then you could have the best of both worlds, not going back to Ernie Ladd trying to count the house while working a side headlock but at the same time giving everyone incentive to make the product as good as possible I think WCW's issue was not so much guaranteed money because how many of the top guys were sitting at home? Yes, there were bizarre occasions where for whatever reasons you had folks missing Starrcade 1997 but that was pretty rare. Those type of issues came to a head when they were already losing a ton of money. I think the issue is just hiring a bunch of people who weren't going to make any dent in the bottom line. Of course, not every one is a draw. However, there were a lot of guys being used that either were past their prime, not all that good in the ring, or weren't great prospects to begin with. They could have saved a nice chunk of money not investing in guys who were just roster fillers. They had a ton of bad hires. I have no issue with the top guys making good money or the guys on the fringe of being top talent. You can certainly debate how much they probably should be making, but hey, it ain't my money. However, you don't realize how much those lower and mid tier guys are taking up a significant amount of money if you sign them by the dozen. Why are trying to lock down talent that WWF doesn't even want? Moreover, why you legitimately investing in your future? At some point, you have elevate other guys in those spots. I think one of the issues early on is when WCW got really successful is they started immediately negotiating and re-negotiating contracts. That's great on the surface but a lot of those guys would have been in the early 40s, their mid 40s, and damn near 50 years old by the time those 2nd contracts expired. They probably would have been smart to let those first deals run out and then go back to the table. Otherwise, you have no leverage when the business has dipped and feel like you need to maintain the stars you do have. Those are now bad contracts. Instead of saying, "hey we got all the big hot angles and matches out of you, time to go to Stamford and see what Vince will give you", you're at the mercy of how easy tides can turn. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 How many Lanny Pofffo’s were there mailing six figures to sit at home? (Too many to be sure) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 2 minutes ago, odessasteps said: How many Lanny Pofffo’s were there mailing six figures to sit at home? (Too many to be sure) Lanny had his deal just based on an agreement with Randy, and supposedly, Lanny's money came out of Randy's money. So Randy was essentially funding his brother to sit at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 6 hours ago, odessasteps said: Are these people all working other shows and having to go to Evansville to pick up the check 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 The poster doesn’t actually say Lawler will be there, either. And I think Dutch said on his pod he had to cancel for health issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 7 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Of course, not every one is a draw. However, there were a lot of guys being used that either were past their prime, not all that good in the ring, or weren't great prospects to begin with. They could save a nice chunk of money not investing in guys who were just roster fillers. They had a ton of bad hires. Good timing on the last couple pages: who at WCW watched that Putski tag and was like "Damn, we gotta lock Scotty in?" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) 13 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: It's also absolute horseshit when you actually break it down. Guaranteed money didn't kill anything. It sure as hell ain't killing the major stick and ball sports in the United States. You're not working the Cincinnati Gardens on a Tuesday or Wednesday and then doing Louisville Gardens the next night and surviving solely off touring. The vast revenue streams companies have access to subsidize everything and create more opportunities. Also work harder, how? I thought the complaint was these guys need to just slow down. Now they're not doing enough? I would like to see his rationale behind that. I mean I heard Cornette say something to that effect maybe when AEW first came about years ago now, but literally none of it made sense unless you're living in 1986 and don't intend to mentally leave the 1980s anytime soon. The only argument for "guaranteed money is killing the business" that I'd accept is from a promotion standpoint. Like if guaranteed TV money causes a promotion to become creatively stagnant because there's no motivation to draw ratings or houses anymore. During the initial Rock/Cody kerfluffle, Meltzer made the point that WWE could main event Mania with whatever they wanted, fans be damned, because their money was guaranteed either way. But yeah, "the boys would work harder, try different things to get over, etc. if they were paid on the house" is fucking stupid in 2024. Shit, it was stupid back in the day because it relied on the honesty of promoters and their underlings, along with gut feelings and convoluted carny math -- things like "well, Hulk drew the house, but I somehow know exactly how much to pay Tonga Kid for the third match." Edited May 7 by Technico Support 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 1 hour ago, Zakk_Sabbath said: Good timing on the last couple pages: who at WCW watched that Putski tag and was like "Damn, we gotta lock Scotty in?" Maybe Putski the Younger came in dressed like a vampire pirate from a cancelled Anne Rice novel and Bischoff just couldn't resist. Or more likely Kevin Sullivan couldn't resist because vampire pirate Putski the Younger would have been perfect for the Dungeon of Doom even if it was dead by the time young Putski made it into the company. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 37 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said: Or more likely Kevin Sullivan couldn't resist because vampire pirate Putski the Younger would have been perfect for the Dungeon of Doom even if it was dead by the time young Putski made it into the company. Lolllllll imagine thinking you're coming in for a run with Hogan etc. and being sentenced to a best-of-237 series with Evan Karagias. It's so comically shitty, that I could totally buy it being the case 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Putski got to be on cable TV wrestling in the U.S. in the late '90s, so I don't feel bad for him. He did as well for himself as he could. I haven't gotten to the best-of-237 series with Karagias yet, so a) it had better be mostly run on Worldwide, SN, et al., or b) I am really, really, really going to hate my run through '99 Nitro and Thunder. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 16 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said: Putski got to be on cable TV wrestling in the U.S. in the late '90s, so I don't feel bad for him. He did as well for himself as he could. I haven't gotten to the best-of-237 series with Karagias yet, so a) it had better be mostly run on Worldwide, SN, et al., or b) I am really, really, really going to hate my run through '99 Nitro and Thunder. Haha just a bit of hyperbole on my part, I'm afraid! I wanted to go with the most Worldwide/SN/Pro guy I could summon, but I felt like it would be hacky to use The Gambler or Hole in One Darsow again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 God, Evan Karagias. That's another one. Apparently a pure Power Plant creation who was a soap actor in a previous life. I'll let you look up the mug shot. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimbra Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 One of the most uncharitable things WCW did was sticking Karagias in 3-Count where he was constantly getting smoked by his partners and all three of the Jung Dragons. Just looked like absolute dogshit in comparison. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 49 minutes ago, Zimbra said: One of the most uncharitable things WCW did was sticking Karagias in 3-Count where he was constantly getting smoked by his partners and all three of the Jung Dragons. Just looked like absolute dogshit in comparison. Then it is almost like a real band where the others carry the person out front. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazorbladeKiss87 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Out of all the crappy hilarious moments on the Heroes of Wrestling ppv, an underrated thing is the weird casino advertisement just sitting on the ring apron. Every time someone moves to the hardcam side it gets bumped and some guy has to jump up and fix it. For those who want to relive it, someone uploaded it to YouTube two days ago. And yes, I woke up at 3 am and watched it today. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChesterCopperpot Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) Oh Ric - "he woo'd directly into a blind grandmother's face" is a helluva line and the footage just got out Edited May 7 by ChesterCopperpot 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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