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Showing content with the highest reputation on 03/26/2021 in all areas

  1. I'm just genuinely disappointed that a black person is in here telling you why blackface shit should be off the Network, a position that I would guess most black folks will hold (speaking as one), and some of y'all want to argue with him. "Think of Bad News's kids!" "But it'll be lost to history." Folks, Bad News's kids or grandkids or whatever have plenty of footage available out there in which he isn't wrestling a racist dude in half-blackface to watch. And if some of y'all are worried about history being lost, well, the Germans banned Nazi paraphernalia post-WW2, but e
    15 points
  2. That's exactly when you have to question why you're watching what you're watching. It's not an issue of censorship. It's an issue of when did the toxicity of not just WWE but wrestling in general overpower whatever good can come out of it. In this specific case, WWE has done an absolutely horrendous job explaining why instances like that (the blackface) are despicable. They had THIRTY years to call that out, give their fanbase an education on why those things are wrong, and make a decision to edit it or alter so it wasn't offensive. Once you fail to do that, you automatically waive the right t
    12 points
  3. It goes back further than that. Monsoon would make gay jokes about Patterson and Terry Garvin on commentary all the time. The term "cancel culture" is getting close to "SJW" and "PC" when it comes to terms that, when I hear them, it's a red flag that the person saying it is garbage.
    11 points
  4. The reason I chimed in is because I felt I could provide perspective from how a lot of this content resonated with me, regarding WWE's incredibly poor record when it comes to LGBTQ presentation (and especially with trans matters). I no longer watch, because their content has hurt me enough. Does that mean they should get a free pass to continue hurting others like me? Should that hurt continue on because of "historical context"? Can I ask why people feel the need to vehemently defend the "historical context" of trash? Frankly, I don't care what they do with said trash. Cut it ou
    10 points
  5. Hi! I'm guessing you were referring to this? Because yeah, that made me extremely uncomfortable to go back and watch. There were a lot of moments that Goldust was specifically intended to trigger transphobic reactions from, like when he was stripped down to lingerie at the end of his match with Roddy Piper at WrestleMania XII, or pretty much his entire TAFKA Goldust run. Or when the Headbangers started wearing dresses and cone bras in the ring aside from the skirts they had been wearing after they turned heel. That was solely to trigger transphobic reactions too. Or... h
    8 points
  6. So Piper doing blackface in 1990 was some bygone era? Vince dropping the n-bomb in 2005 happened during the good old days?
    8 points
  7. And oh...speaking of questionable content. I happened to be watching No Mercy 1999 (the UK one from May before Over the Edge) a few days ago. During the makeshift bout between Tori and Nicole Bass, Jim Ross refers to Nicole as a shemale not once but TWICE after the match to the point where JERRY FUCKING LAWLER is aghast and taken aback. And it had nothing to do with anything. He just said it in the context of nothing. You can remove stuff like that because it has NO PLACE on any network.
    8 points
  8. Clearly, The Comedian set a tone for this thread we could not return from.
    7 points
  9. This, in a nutshell, is why trying to have a reasonable discussion on these topics is a waste of time.
    7 points
  10. That's where we're in agreement. I've never said once that you have do a total scrub where you take away the visual aspect. It's not that hard to remove six or seven seconds of audio. There are creative ways you can remove stuff without it being harmful to your overall viewer experience. And the stuff that has to be removed where the visual component is part of? Just the cost of doing business. I've learned from the Chris Benoit discussion we had here (I wanna say a year or so ago now maybe or longer) that people will die on that hill if need be. Like I'm talking get bayoneted in the thro
    7 points
  11. “Preserving wrestling history” is about the dumbest excuse for people to use to defend their opinion on why NBC shouldn’t be doing this, too.
    7 points
  12. The last 15 minutes of my life have been me living that Vince McMahon passing out gif
    7 points
  13. Listen I think there's a rational middle ground between the two sides represented here. Black face is highly offensive and I agree with Piper vs Brown & the DX / Nation segment being scrubbed. Vince dropping the N word as well. But Niners is going further down the path of what if and I don't think that makes him a bad person wondering out loud. We all agree black face has no place being celebrated. But then all the Goldust segments were mentioned. Nicole Bass. Bra & Panties matches. Overly bloody matches. Steph drugged and married. I don't find Eugene and George Steel stuff v
    6 points
  14. 6 points
  15. If you take away sexism, racism, homophobia and xenophobia from wrestling, all you gave left is the fake violence.
    6 points
  16. Because... --- Entrance aside, this is great because it has the old school tunnel pre-entrance, and Vince on commentary. Say what you want, but "getting his ass kicked weekly" Vince on commentary (booking too) is my favorite and I love this "throw it to the wall and see what sticks" era of WWF.
    6 points
  17. The line will get drawn somewhere, obviously. The question is, how much bigotry are you willing to tolerate in what you watch, knowing it might harm others?
    5 points
  18. I don't know what the best part is. The giant leather fanny pack? The Zubaz? The tank top tucked into shorts? The Nokia phone on a pocket clip? It's impossible to say.
    5 points
  19. This is actually a very good point. This isn't a movie from 1966. This was Vince McMahon in 2005. Fucking yikes lol. Thank you for putting that in the right context.
    5 points
  20. 5 points
  21. Niners thinking out loud saying hey they started editing A, wondering if this means they will edit B, C, D, & E now too does not make him a bad person. Write as many paragraphs as you feel necessary. But he isn't saying anything vile or hurtful by wondering if the flood gates are open now and they will edit everything, since the process has begun. Any instances of slurs should be edited out of commentary. The Nicole Bass quote of JR's you mentioned is disgusting. Erase the audio. The problematic part is the slur. So my point is let's not erase whole segments and matches. Does cutting
    5 points
  22. They've reach a point in growth where it's no longer feasible as a for profit company to continue to alienate people. And it's easy to say, "oh hey, people have the right to do XYZ." However, that's easy to say when you're not the affected party. It isn't a problem until it hits home for you. And the blackface thing definitely hits home for me as a black man of my age. Do I believe there are black folks who would be fine with it? Sure, but that's not something that's up for discussion. This isn't a situation of a do something and then ask for permission later or ask who's cool with it aft
    5 points
  23. I just call it "having some goddam respect for people who are different from you," myself. Maybe that's too many words for a campaign slogan or angry hashtag, however.
    5 points
  24. I mean, moral reprehensibility should be the fault of the viewer. I mean I wrote some morally reprehensible things about Mima Shimoda in a sweater, but that is my problem, not GAEA's. They were presenting a wrestling match that I happened to inject my own pathetic observations. WWE brought the moral reprehensibilty under the guise of a wrestling match.
    5 points
  25. I really shouldn't be shocked that some wrestling fans are outraged that NBC is censoring/removing racist bullshit from WWE's past, but here we are. The same people probably think "cancel culture" has run amok or something equally stupid as well.
    5 points
  26. After episode 2,i'm fully behind the Flag Smashers! Hell yeah, a world without borders sounds great! Not letting the same small group of people control the planet sounds great. Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounded like they were bringing medicine to refugee camps? Great bunch of lads! Can't get a fix on John Walker yet, he seems like a relatively OK dude, I imagine we've only seen phase 1 of his origin so far though, maybe his pal Battlestar gets killed and that causes a snap. Is John Walker a super soldier at this point? If not, how the hell was he hanging with Morgenthau et al?
    5 points
  27. On the 11th episode of Dynamite back in November 2019, Silver and Reynolds were both punked out in about 45 seconds combined by Jon Moxley. Now Silver is one of the most over acts in the company and main evented their TV show against one of their top stars. Good for him.
    5 points
  28. What the fuck does this have to do with Roddy Piper wearing blackface? Second, you're the same dude who said something to the effect that people should be able find videos anywhere of any quality. I'm pretty sure you can find some third hand copy of Black Bart and Manny Fernandez having a shitty bloodbath that's been on the internet since 2004. Again, you can have that without you know...the over the top racism which definitely needs to be removed. The fuck is wrong with y'all?
    5 points
  29. Do we really need to go back to the screen turning black and white when someone bled or Austin's fingers being blurred? i wouldn't sign up for a movie channel streamer if they showed me the cable edit. i wouldn't sign up for Apple music if they gave me nothing but radio edits. A disclaimer is enough. There's already been discussion of them removing violence.. This board had high praise for Thunder Rosa vs. Dr. Britt. That was on cable with a TV-14 attached. That's all there needs to be. A pay service doesn't need to be telling the consumer what they shouldn't see. i don't w
    5 points
  30. 1. We should listen to people who can or do get hurt by these things, seek their opinions, respect their opinions. 2. When possible, I believe in contextualization. If you're going to leave something, don't just leave it there without contextualizing it. Provide explanation and resources. If it is necessary to remove something, it's not enough to just remove it. Remove and offer context in its place or attached to it. 3. I know personally, I am impacted differently by things that happened before I was born (and I'd say especially before I had hit adolescence) and after, but that's ju
    4 points
  31. I know what offends me, but that isn't the issue. The issue is where does the line get drawn? Do we eliminate all footage of Gorgeous George, even though that was late 1940s-1950s TV. By all means, without context his gimmick is offensive as hell. Where will people stand on Adrian Street's character (semi-effeminate ass-kicker)? I don't honestly know where the line should be, but I do know portraying a black man of Nigerian descent wandering around with a spear is about as offensive as anything I've seen on television in the last decade.
    4 points
  32. Sweet tap-dancing Jeebus! How is this shit even possible in 2021? That's like something out of a 1940s Warner Bros. cartoon. Does VKM really think that modern day Nigerians walk around carrying spears? I tuned out of WWE about the time of the first Saudi tour, so I had no idea that this shit was going on. I know Crews likes getting a paycheck, but this is just beyond awful.
    4 points
  33. I don't think Niners is a bad person and I get the idea of a slippery slope happening when it comes to editing. But I'd rather that we not discuss B though Z and still focus on editing A because it runs the risk of losing the point of what's initially discussed. The other thing too is that this is all WAY too early to tell how they're going to do things so I think we may need to pump the brakes and see how things play out.
    4 points
  34. You mention Vince's constant claims of "taking wrestling from the smoke filled gyms" and whatever his bullshit narrative is for making it mainstream, but Vince's mentality never left those places. Not in the 80s. Not in the 90s. Not today. Vince has always conducted himself just as the carny 60s and 70s scumbags he learned from taught him. Wrestlers are no better than racehorses; meat to be drugged up to perform and then used up and discarded. Your customers are rubes just waiting to be separated from their last dollar and eager to be told what they should like. Nothing that could possi
    4 points
  35. 1) Wrestling doesn't have to be low-brow. There is a safe middle between Downton Abbey and pro wrestling. It's clear wrestling fans internalize all the scrutiny and project it out as a way to process it. You don't have to do that. 2) That's a false dilemma though cause it's not like 99% of wrestling history is Vince doing the "I took wrestling out of smoky gymnasiums and put it in arenas and packed stadiums". Even with that, I was discussing how this dude was doing NATIONAL television from a high school gym in the mid 90s just two weeks ago. That's not something that's considered a memor
    4 points
  36. For Jefferson Starship to ignore things when a billionaire is trying to throw them a bone is like the most Starship thing ever. What a bunch of absolute tools. To think that abortion of a group has its roots in Jefferson Airplane boggles the mind. Take that city that you babble about in that awful song and put it where the sun don't shine.
    4 points
  37. The WWE has always been scummy and horrible. Why celebrate their attempt to cover it up?
    4 points
  38. Because everything after that is irrelevant. Extremely irrelevant. Once you say some stupid and vile bullshit, there is NOTHING you can say to justify it. You don't get to pick and choose what you believe you should not be censored when what's being censored affects A LOT of people. I don't care if you feel your pretend wrestling is under attack. Do they not teach social science classes where you're from? How hard is it to realize what you said is not only dumb but dangerous and problematic? Moreover, I believe this is what you call a false dilemma. It should not cross your mind th
    4 points
  39. I love this "Hangman just keeps winning, and destroying jobbers while we kill time before he makes his big main event run at Omega." No losing streak bullshit, they know they want him to eventually be a challenger (possibly the guy who gets the win), they know know it's too early, so they just let him go out there and beat guys clean in the middle of the ring, usually with his finisher, sometimes with his secondary finisher. It's brilliant. This show was loaded with great promos as well. MJF, Britt, Mox and Kingston, even Omega was really on. Sometimes the week to week booking gets
    4 points
  40. You're on your own with that nonsense. There is a lot of stuff that should go (basically a lot of Goldust related/adjacent stuff that I talked about a few weeks ago even before the Peacock sale), but the Piper Hot Rod/Hot Scot blackface stuff has gotta go. It should have been gone a LONG time ago. The fact it took another party to finally remove it doesn't give me great hope about WWE (hell, wrestling in general) surrounding issues of race.
    4 points
  41. i don't believe they should censor the Piper racist shit because that opens the door for more edits. it was bad enough with the music rights issues. Next will be language and then blood etc... if i'm paying you $9.99 a month i should be able to decide if something is too much for me. i've been a subscriber since day 1 but if this is how they will be handling it then i'm out. The current stuff isn't good enough.
    4 points
  42. More Israel vs Corne This is one of my favorite spots in forever. Total Human Game of Chess stuff here. Corne has him in a short leg scissors. So Israel whacks him dead on in the skull with his foot, and then when Corne's blocking the next few he uses the opening to slip his own foot in to lock in a short leg scissors of his own which causes the ref to force a break. This whole sequence is obviously cool, but what the hell is going on with that trip/pin off the ropes? It comes at such a weird angle that your eyes don't expect it since he doesn't turn and just goes chest first i
    3 points
  43. Let me put you up on game my friend...black people don't look forward to racism. Second, you can't speak for his grandchildren and their concerns. You don't even know if he had grandchildren. Hell, if he had children that HAD children, they wouldn't want anything to do with the wrestling business. Matter of fact, if that's the best thing he was associated with his career (and it wasn't THANK GOD), that would be a sad note for his family to see. I am not even going to touch how silly it is that people cannot track down anything beyond one source in 2021. Bad News Brown died how many years
    3 points
  44. Yep, making sound and rational arguments. Not really. I used to work for Walmart Corporate on the .com ecommerce side and just started working for JB Hunt corporate. If I came in here and said "mmmkay businesses are bad", I would have absolutely no leg to stand on. That's not my bag. However, I will call out shit that I know is incredibly abhorrent. That's not giving myself an out. That's understanding how businesses operate and knowing how the machine runs. Moreover, it has nothing to do with removing this or that when you can do one thing and not affect everything else. It
    3 points
  45. It's 2021 and they have a black man faking a Nigerian accent (I know he's of Nigerian descent but he does not have an accent) and walking around with a spear. I asked about it here (because I don't watch WWE) and someone made a decent explanation/defense of it but still, come on. Promoters of a certain age (*cough cough* Vince *cough cough*) will always approach characterization from a point of view that if you're non-white, then that's your gimmick.
    3 points
  46. If only there were other pro wrestling promotions we could follow and support and spend money on. Promotions not run by hateful assholes. Maybe some day...
    3 points
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