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APRIL 2022 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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13 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Yes it was. It was an inoffensive match. It did it's job. Put Batista over and made him look great. Like the heat was there and the fans popped for Batista winning. It worked the way it needed to. Maybe a little overly long.

I thought that HHH took too much in that match. Plus, he got a really big entrance with Motorhead playing him to the ring (I'll forgive Lemmy for being drunk and forgetting the words to the song as I'm an unabashed Motorhead mark) while Batista just had a normal entrance. He wasn't even using the souped up Saliva version of his theme song at that point. Then Batista had to sell for the majority of the match and HHH's offense isn't exactly dynamic or suited for big stadium matches. Whole thing felt flat to me.

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6 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

I thought that HHH took too much in that match. Plus, he got a really big entrance with Motorhead playing him to the ring (I'll forgive Lemmy for being drunk and forgetting the words to the song as I'm an unabashed Motorhead mark) while Batista just had a normal entrance. He wasn't even using the souped up Saliva version of his theme song at that point. 

I actually prefer his original theme to the Saliva version...

 

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9 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

I thought that HHH took too much in that match. Plus, he got a really big entrance with Motorhead playing him to the ring (I'll forgive Lemmy for being drunk and forgetting the words to the song as I'm an unabashed Motorhead mark) while Batista just had a normal entrance. He wasn't even using the souped up Saliva version of his theme song at that point. Then Batista had to sell for the majority of the match and HHH's offense isn't exactly dynamic or suited for big stadium matches. Whole thing felt flat to me.

Agree with your points but WM21 was in Los Angeles in a regular arena, not a stadium. Your other points still stand.

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23 hours ago, zendragon said:

All the talk about HHH retirement got me thinking best HHH non gimmick match singles or tag?

Not the best but I’m actually a fan of the WM22 Cena match. Just watched it recently and it’s funny to hear the Chicago reaction and the “you can’t wrestle” stuff given what we know now and the extent to which one of these legacies in-ring dwarfs the other.

ETA: Thats actually a fun exercise. How many all time Cena matches do you get to list before you arrive at the first HHH match that matches one in quality. It’s gotta be 20+. 

Edited by For Great Justice
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29 minutes ago, For Great Justice said:

Not the best but I’m actually a fan of the WM22 Cena match. Just watched it recently and it’s funny to hear the Chicago reaction and the “you can’t wrestle” stuff given what we know now and the extent to which one of these legacies in-ring dwarfs the other.

ETA: Thats actually a fun exercise. How many all time Cena matches do you get to list before you arrive at the first HHH match that matches one in quality. It’s gotta be 20+. 

Singles or gimmicks? If both - not remotely. If singles vs singles on an equivalent basis? 

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14 minutes ago, For Great Justice said:

Was thinking straight singles. Though I don’t think Triple H has ever had a gimmick match as good as the Umaga match. 

Depends how you define it .. more profitable & epoch defining? Definitely. He wasn’t a bad singles star per se, just the violent or character-driven gimmick bouts he did do at peak (3 stages of hell, HITC, numerous no holds barred / last man standing etc) were either more common of the period or more suited to his cerebral assassin phase.

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1 hour ago, christopher.annino said:

Please, no, he's a WWE fan/viewer problem now.

At least he'll get Raw threads to 6 pages from 2. 

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3 hours ago, cwoy2j said:

I thought that HHH took too much in that match. Plus, he got a really big entrance with Motorhead playing him to the ring (I'll forgive Lemmy for being drunk and forgetting the words to the song as I'm an unabashed Motorhead mark) while Batista just had a normal entrance. He wasn't even using the souped up Saliva version of his theme song at that point. Then Batista had to sell for the majority of the match and HHH's offense isn't exactly dynamic or suited for big stadium matches. Whole thing felt flat to me.

Well Triple H had that big Motorhead Entrance for WrestleMania 17 as well where he lost to Undertaker, and he was coming off that big win to Austin as well at No Way Out. So, having those big elaborate entrances doesn't always mean you're gonna win at Mania.

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11 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Well Triple H had that big Motorhead Entrance for WrestleMania 17 as well where he lost to Undertaker, and he was coming off that big win to Austin as well at No Way Out. So, having those big elaborate entrances doesn't always mean you're gonna win at Mania.

it's not so much that it means you're going to win or lose and actually nowadays, if you get an over the top entrance with a star doing your theme, it's more likely you're gonna lose. It's more that he got this giant entrance and looked like a huge star when Batista got a basic entrance and ended up selling for the majority of the match when he was the up and coming guy (they're the same age chronologically but tv age wise, Batista was the new guy) who should've looked like a million dollars.

Edited by cwoy2j
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17 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

Not the best but I’m actually a fan of the WM22 Cena match. Just watched it recently and it’s funny to hear the Chicago reaction and the “you can’t wrestle” stuff given what we know now and the extent to which one of these legacies in-ring dwarfs the other.

ETA: Thats actually a fun exercise. How many all time Cena matches do you get to list before you arrive at the first HHH match that matches one in quality. It’s gotta be 20+. 

This is a pretty good thought experiment. I'm not entirely convinced that Cena DID have a better in-ring career than Hunter, though Cena never had the low points that Hunter did. 

I think Hunter had the benefit of being able to work with better guys - prime Rock, Foley, Austin, Benoit, Jericho etc, a motivated Undertaker.

I mean, the torn quad tag on Raw is probably better than anything Cena did with the exception of the Punk and Umaga match, I think. 

Edited by Hagan
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I think Cena/Henry at MITB is Cena's best match. I might be the only one who thinks that. Then I'd have Cena/Umaga. Then maybe HHH/Bryan slots in after that.

But then I'd probably have to go a ways listing Cena matches before I get to the next HHH match. 

Edited by SirSmellingtonofCascadia
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Cody gets his own bus and perks with his new WWE deal. And no Stardust ever. We will have to see if he has creative control like Hogan did in WCW. His WWE contract is different than most others in WWE, so complex.

He brought up the Nightmare Factory, it's not attached to just one company.

 

Edited by Blue Dragon
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I promise you Cody does not have creative control 😂

Vince didn't give that shit to Hogan or Cena or Lesnar or Austin. So ain't no chance Cody got it. They just don't do that in WWE. It's Vince's playpen and if you don't like what he has for you, you get sent home. Doesn't matter if you're Austin, Mustafa Ali, or Punk. You go home.

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12 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I promise you Cody does not have creative control 😂

Vince didn't give that shit to Hogan or Cena or Lesnar or Austin. So ain't no chance Cody got it. They just don't do that in WWE. It's Vince's playpen and if you don't like what he has for you, you get sent home. Doesn't matter if you're Austin, Mustafa Ali, or Punk. You go home.

I would guess its less creative control and more extra freedom in promos and feuds, basically what top guys like Roman, Austin, Bret, etc. got/get. 

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Maybe. But Cody already made a joke at his post show press conference that the first time a writer comes up to him with a promo he's gonna lie through his teeth and say "it's great, love it". A bit of promo freedom I can buy maybe. But he's not gonna have anymore of a say than anyone else in his stories / directions.

You guys are coming at this from Cody being in a position of strength during negations. I get that. But it's just not true. He wanted to go back to WWE the whole time. This was his dream, being a top guy there. Plus AEW made their offer and wasn't budging. It was either sign with WWE or fucking around in the NWA & Impact. WWE had the strength in the negotiations. I'm sure Cody got a great number figure. But he just wasn't in the position to get anymore perks than anyone else. Mayyybeeeee a clause that says no Stardust. But even that I think is a stretch. Vince is Vince. If he wants a Stardust story, he wants a Stardust story.

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Yeah - Cody should probably stop talking because we know how babyfaces get booked in this company. Like, it's reasonable to think he's getting laid out by Veer tonight. 

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Stardust contract stipulation debunked already....


Rhodes has made it clear in past interviews that he doesn’t like the run as Stardust. After returning to WWE this weekend, Rhodes spoke with Ariel Helwani and revealed that he asked WWE not to mention his past as Stardust. He said the following:
 

Quote

 

“There wasn’t any true guarantees,” Rhodes said of his new WWE contract. “There was a request. I said I never want to ever see Stardust ever again, and I never want to hear it and talk about it. I never want to see it, and it was a handshake and that was all I needed. And the first thing I did in the match last night was a random Stardust reference. I thought, ‘What are you doing?’ You’re going back on your own strange requests. But other than that, it’s complex to get this all together, maybe one of wrestling’s biggest contracts, which I’m so flattered about. I’m like, ‘Gosh, I’m happy,’ and I have a child, so yeah.

“But It was more a matter of, I don’t not trust people, right? It’s not that I don’t trust this person’s words or that person’s words. But at this point in my career, I do trust myself, fully, implicitly trust myself, so I know what I can do, and if given the platform to do it, I’m able to move on, I’m able to get over, and I’m able to get hopefully what I want, and that was presented to me on a silver platter last night. Nothing changed. Kingdom played. Wrestling has more than one royal family. This is a world where the term ‘wrestling’ isn’t said that often. So to hear that was a big give from them, and to be me, yeah, I trust me.”

 

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When you find out that Cody isn't booked to have the belt any time soon, and then he suddenly loses a stipulation match wherein he can no longer challenge for the belt, thus making him a sort of "uncrowned champion" who could be seen as bigger than the title, then you'll know he has creative control.

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Pat Buck who produced matches for WM has resigned (he is gone) from WWE today. He fully produced the Charlotte vs Ronda match. 

From PWInsider below:

"WRESTLEMANIA 38 MAIN EVENT PRODUCER QUITS WWE

By Mike Johnson 

Pat Buckridge (professionally known as Pat Buck), who produced several Wrestlemania 38 main events over the weekend, officially resigned from World Wrestling Entertainment today, PWInsider.com has confirmed.  

Buck, who produced Roman Reigns vs. Brock Lesnar (with Michael Hayes) and Ronda Rousey vs. Charlotte Flair, informed the company this afternoon he was departing.  The word making the rounds is that Buck stated that with the matches he worked on for Wrestlemania 38, he had achieved his goals of producing main events on the biggest show of the year and now needed to refocus his energies on his family, something the current WWE schedule could not consistently afford him the ability to do.

Beyond his duties as a Producer, Buck, 38, was also working in Talent Relations and had been the liason between the company and independent talents that were booked as extras at PPVs and TV tapings.  He had also been scouting new potential signings.

Buck operates the Create-A-Pro Wrestling Academies in New Jersey and Long Island with Brian Myers, is also the owner of WrestlePro in New Jersey.  He signed with WWE as a producer back in 2019 after a long career of wrestling independently, including a long run with Ohio Valley Wrestling when it was a WWE developmental territory.

Buck is already gone and will not be at tonight's Raw taping."

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