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August 2021 Wrestling Discussion


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Honestly, from a character standpoint, Roman Reigns trashing CM Punk is a good idea. Reigns' character, Tribal Chief/Head of the Table, should be trashing Punk and crapping on his accomplishments. It makes sense. 

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I think @Burgundy LaRuesaid it best about Roman so I say we're best leaving it at that.  He's right to not like Punk for what was said in the past and there wasn't anything technically wrong in what he said.

As for Cole I like when he steps out of the usual roles to do things from DVD commentaries to the UK Championship.  He sounded worlds better in those instances and when he's not heeling it up is a very underrated announcer.

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21 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Honestly, from a character standpoint, Roman Reigns trashing CM Punk is a good idea. Reigns' character, Tribal Chief/Head of the Table, should be trashing Punk and crapping on his accomplishments. It makes sense. 

nothing spiritually different from the good ol' "so and so left the territory because he was afraid of ME" after all.

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26 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Honestly, from a character standpoint, Roman Reigns trashing CM Punk is a good idea. Reigns' character, Tribal Chief/Head of the Table, should be trashing Punk and crapping on his accomplishments. It makes sense. 

 

4 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:

nothing spiritually different from the good ol' "so and so left the territory because he was afraid of ME" after all.


in fact, he should start in on Bryan too.  "he left and he even changed his name to get away from how much better than him I already proved I am." etc etc.

oh, the twitter rage he could spark by implying that the WWE Name is the real name and someone's actual name is the alias they're trying to hide under. Would be pleased to see it.

Edited by BobbyWhioux
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i'm not usually one to defend Punk or agree with him on much but that "didn't move the needle" thing is bullshit.  WWE definitely had a lot of buzz surrounding Punk;  Pipe Bomb leading into his title win etc..  That's when all these outlets and mainstream news sites started covering wrestling again.  

i don't know if the HHH/Nash thing was intentional to cool off Punk or what but it certainly did at the time.  if WWE books well that Summer then maybe the conversation around Punk is a lot different today. 

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27 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

i'm not usually one to defend Punk or agree with him on much but that "didn't move the needle" thing is bullshit.  WWE definitely had a lot of buzz surrounding Punk;  Pipe Bomb leading into his title win etc..  That's when all these outlets and mainstream news sites started covering wrestling again.  

i don't know if the HHH/Nash thing was intentional to cool off Punk or what but it certainly did at the time.  if WWE books well that Summer then maybe the conversation around Punk is a lot different today. 

Man, the Summer of Punk was so badly done shortly after Punk beat John Cena for the WWE Championship in a ***** match at Money in the Bank 2011. CM Punk returns early as WWE Champion, loses it to fuckin' Alberto Del Rio thanks to fuckin' Kevin Nash at SummerSlam 2011. Punk then loses to Triple H at Night of Champions 2011. So frustrating. Again too many WWE Championship and World Heavyweight Championship changes in 2011.

Edited by The Natural
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6 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Man, the Summer of Punk was so badly done shortly after Punk beat John Cena for the WWE Championship in a ***** match at Money in the Bank 2011. CM Punk returns early as WWE Champion, loses it to fuckin' Alberto Del Rio thanks to fuckin' Kevin Nash at SummerSlam 2011. Punk then loses to Triple H at Night of Champions 2011. So frustrating. Again too many WWE Championship and World Heavyweight Championship changes in 2011.

There's only been twice in the past 15 years that I've been tempted to get into the WWE again: the Punk/Cena stuff and Nexus tearing up the ring.  And boy did they manage to kill my interest in both pretty quickly.

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The move the needle argument is nonsense. It's WWE-speak for whenever someone they werent behind gets themselves over and doesn't sellout stadiums overnight. Roman has had how many mania main events? Does he move the needle?

 

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41 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Better not tease us if they can't deliver.

 

Born Showman is trying to steal Ryback's gimmick?

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1 minute ago, Loki said:

"Deep Dish" Adam Scherr just might be the best new name in wrestlng.

That seriously sounds like a name in the end credits of WCW PPVs back the day. It would be one of the camera operators right before you get to Sharon Sidello, Alan Rogowski, and Virgil Runnels. It would always kill they would have some third party event lighting company like Bob's Lighting Emporium of Asheville, NC thrown in there. Like no wonder you would have like a whole bank of lights go out on the PPV in 1991-1993.

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CM Punk losing to a semi-retired HHH, for absolutely no reason, is honestly one of the biggest bullshit moves in the past decade.

Goldber beating KO in 20 seconds is not far behind.

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1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

i'm not usually one to defend Punk or agree with him on much but that "didn't move the needle" thing is bullshit. 

I feel like there’s a big difference between saying “Punk didn’t move the needle” and “Punk didn’t move the needle as much as the Rock”

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22 minutes ago, Eoae said:

I feel like there’s a big difference between saying “Punk didn’t move the needle” and “Punk didn’t move the needle as much as the Rock”

If Punk had moved needles as much as The Rock did and does, Triple H never could have called him skinny-fat. (This is dumb but it was also a lay-up. I'm still sorry.)

Edited by Beech27
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1 hour ago, JohnnyJ said:

The move the needle argument is nonsense. It's WWE-speak for whenever someone they werent behind gets themselves over and doesn't sellout stadiums overnight. Roman has had how many mania main events? Does he move the needle?

 

Pretty much this. Reigns isn't a star and doesn't have the chops to be one, which is why making those statements is, in some respects, somewhat dumb on his part (though of course, he's just CTC'ing and doing what Vince wants for good money, so in other respects, it's very smart).

But even though Reigns is sub-Diesel level when it comes to moving the needle as THE GUY, ultimately I get why he's out here saying stuff like this. Honestly, Reigns, Punk, and Moxley are all guys who aren't really good enough to be THE GUY, but I enjoy it when B+ players snipe at or about one another. That's more entertaining than modern pro wrestling itself. 

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Why are we slandering Mox? Dude was "the guy" during a pandemic last year and I hope his promo this week means he's gearing up for another big run. I could see Miro/Eddie leading to some good shit with Miro & Mox this winter. 

The only issue I have with Roman saying what he said is that no superstar before or since has been coddled like Reigns has. They tried to make him the top babyface no less than four times, even going so far as to reform the Shield on two separate occasions and firebombing Braun Strowman's push to try to get there. WWE fans told the company through their actions every time that they didn't want Roman. Rather than listening, WWE simply pushed Roman to the moon while the fans weren't around. It's pretty rich that Roman would talk about "seizing opportunities" when he's been handed every opportunity he's gotten. I like this version of Reigns, but unless he's doing a character bit those remarks were pretty tone deaf.

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23 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Pretty much this. Reigns isn't a star and doesn't have the chops to be one, which is why making those statements is, in some respects, somewhat dumb on his part (though of course, he's just CTC'ing and doing what Vince wants for good money, so in other respects, it's very smart).

But even though Reigns is sub-Diesel level when it comes to moving the needle as THE GUY, ultimately I get why he's out here saying stuff like this. Honestly, Reigns, Punk, and Moxley are all guys who aren't really good enough to be THE GUY, but I enjoy it when B+ players snipe at or about one another. That's more entertaining than modern pro wrestling itself. 

I watched a random WWF Superstars before Summerslam 95 the other day. WWF didn't really help Nash's case. They were doing promos for a house show at either MSG or Boston Garden later that year (in October IIRC), which is hilarious considering the PPV was that Sunday and you're hyping a show a whole month from then with two guys defending their respective belts on the PPV. But I digress. HBK came along and cut this great, killer fiery babyface promo, which begs the question of why he was so boring and bland as a face during the Boyhood Dream/tagalong Jose Lothario run in 1996. Poor Diesel's promo is nothing but awful puns and corny clearly scripted dialogue (HE'S FUELED BY DIESEL POWER Y'ALL). Nash's delivery is that of a guy who clearly knows this material is terrible. You cannot be THE GUY is if WWF/E creative is killing you to that degree. That type of stuff will make you turn the channel. 

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25 minutes ago, just drew said:

Why are we slandering Mox? Dude was "the guy" during a pandemic last year and I hope his promo this week means he's gearing up for another big run. I could see Miro/Eddie leading to some good shit with Miro & Mox this winter. 

YMMV, and I know I'll get disagreement for this hot take, but his SCSA tribute act drawing 800K viewers each week doesn't scream THE GUY. 

He's fine as a guy, but he's not going to take a company anywhere. Who is? I don't know. I feel like wrestling is so niche at this that it would take another Rock-level guy to actually bring casuals back. Who is out there that even comes close to fitting that bill?

Per Elsalvajeloco's point, I of course don't think Reigns is helped by his creative, but I saw Nash be part of an extremely hot act in WCW. He might not have been THE GUY, but 1997 is a good argument that it was possible if Hulk Hogan wasn't in the company. I don't have faith that Reigns has that sort of star power even when booked in a hot angle. 

 

Edited by SirSmellingtonofCascadia
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1 minute ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

YMMV, and I know I'll get disagreement for this hot take, but his SCSA tribute act drawing 800K viewers each week doesn't scream THE GUY. 

I watched Dynamite on DVR last night, and his energy comes off as very Macho Man-ish. Maybe cause he is from the Midwest, but hearing his low growly cadence, I was expecting him to say freakout and curl his hands with his pinkie slightly sticking out.

I don't really see SCSA. What I do see is people incorrectly trying to compare him to Steve. I think a lot of booking during the no fan era was probably Austin-ish, but I don't see the tribute act thing.

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4 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I watched Dynamite on DVR last night, and his energy comes off as very Macho Man-ish. Maybe cause he is from the Midwest, but hearing his low growly cadence, I was expecting him to say freakout and curl his hands with his pinkie slightly sticking out.

I don't really see SCSA. What I do see is people incorrectly trying to compare him to Steve. I think a lot of booking during the no fan era was probably Austin-ish, but I don't see the tribute act thing.

I definitely saw it, particularly in the early days of Dynamite, with the middle fingers and focus on how much of a lone wolf he was in his promos. He might have evolved his character since then, though, which would be a fair point. I haven't watched AEW programming in months, so I only really have a feel for the first few months of his portrayal there.

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I don't understand the "SCSA tribute act" talking point. Mox is far more versatile in-ring. I would recommend a playthrough of his stuff in Japan. He also carried the WWE Smackdown live events for two years, outdrawing the stacked, Reigns-led Raw roster. If you're saying Mox isn't "the guy" because no one is, then that's true. I would also point out the obvious about how a lot of folks are "cord cutters" and don't watch Dynamite as it airs. 

 

Mox has hung right with, if not surpassed, Reigns (and Rollins, fwiw) for years as it pertains to fan response, ticket sales, merch, and other metrics. The responses he was getting were so much better than Reigns that I wonder if it hurt his prospects in WWE. If they ever do "What If: WWE Edition" after Vince sells to Disney, I would want one to be "what if Dean Ambrose wins the 2016 Royal Rumble and main events Mania with HHH, while Reigns gets the Undertaker before 'Taker's body starts breaking down." But with fewer words in the title because that would be too long.

Edited by just drew
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