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NOV 2020 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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38 minutes ago, PetrolCB said:

Vince will think its the G1 (its been around long enough for him to know of it), will assume Woods jumped ship to throw his trombone in the trashcan and promptly fire him.

But then he'll see Shane Strickland walking around backstage, get confused, and try to fire him again.

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1 hour ago, Eoae said:

Drake Wuertz vs. Bix is the heel vs. heel feud not even Vince could screw up.  There's practically no chance the audience is going to give either of those two a babyface reaction.

Make Austin ref, like Brock/Goldberg at WM XX.

They could debate on Broken Skull Sessions too.

"Now Drake...you've got some pretty strange opinions. Is that a shoot?"

Then he'll ask them both about the Stossel incident.

Edited by PetrolCB
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6 hours ago, Six String Orchestra said:

@Ziggy

NJPW's booking has been it's weak spot during the pandemic. WTL and BOTSJ are going on right now, alternating nights. They've been all solid, shorter shows. G1 Climax was good, not great. 

Mostly agree, (I've got of a kick out of EVIL's shtick than most), definitely worth re-subbing and the G1 shows were far more digestible without the prelim tags. Crowd has been present but clapping only (no shouting allowed) leading to the likes of Jay White needling them to break the rules. And when you do hear the occasional collective gasp or cheer, it's that much more special seeing folks get genuinely caught up in the moment.

Edit to add: I'm sympathetic to the feeling of checking out during the pandemic era, I checked out from March and it wasn't until about July when I could stomach the empty arenas and got back on the AEW train on a hot couple of weeks just when Eddie Kingston debuted. They'd obviously found their groove with the production etc. by then.

Edited by Custos
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3 hours ago, Custos said:

Edit to add: I'm sympathetic to the feeling of checking out during the pandemic era, I checked out from March and it wasn't until about July when I could stomach the empty arenas and got back on the AEW train on a hot couple of weeks just when Eddie Kingston debuted. They'd obviously found their groove with the production etc. by then.

NJPW was kinda hurt by only being able to use talent in Japan so their roster was shallow. It worked out sometimes though with Hiromu, Ishii and Shingo really having great runs. It halted their momentum and while I was fine with Evil's turn, it was hard to care about Naito-Evil part 4, they had no chemistry and it was the main feud!

Edited by Six String Orchestra
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I didn’t understand putting the titles on EVIL and I still don’t. He’s a fine wrestler but not in the league of Okada, Ibushi, or to my mind even someone like Ishii. He doesn’t have the aura of danger a gimmick like that needs so it comes off as cartoonish. And he and Naito has no chemistry either. But nothing ventured, nothing gained, and it got people talking about New Japan for the relaunch so maybe that’s all it needed to do.

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Listened to part 2 of the Caguas Screwjob.

Someone had asked if Pelayo Vazquez who was the ref. knew about it beforehand and they all said no. Dennis and Noel also were screaming at him to bring them the titles after the match so they could rush out of the arena.

After the match, Dennis and Noel left the arena and Niche and Lynx went backstage and they were heated as they got double crossed by people they grew up in the business with and they began flipping tables and throwing stuff in the locker room. They said Carlos Colón and Invader #1 were calm backstage and telling them to take it easy as it was just wrestling and they would get the titles back somehow.

Dennis and Noel mention they were going to call Niche and Lynx after a few weeks and they were going to continue this angle and turn into a work by having Niche and Lynx face them at an IWA show and they were going to put them over and allow them to win the IWA tag titles so they could further the angle and try to force the two companies into working the invasion angle they had previously agreed to, but dropped.

Dennis and Noel got a ton of attention with the angle and even the municipal police department were huge fans and reached out to them and had them stop by the municipal police department and Dennis and Noel were able to record a promo in a jail cell there and they were also loaned a police vehicle to ride into one of the shows with all of the titles hanging from the front of it.

They said they got a ton of indy bookings that week and on Saturday they worked an indy show in Ciales I believe it was and then they headed out to work an IWA show in Levittown. Niche and Lynx knew IWA was running Levittown that night, so they planned on showing up to get the titles back. Their plan was to arrive at the arena and storm into the arena and grab the titles from the ring announcers table. Niche and Lynx arrive with Cuervo and 2 other people. Niche and Lynx stay in the car and they make a conference call with Cuervo and the other two people that where with them. They send Cuervo to walk around the arena and see if the backdoor entrance is open and they send the other two people to buy tickets and get into the venue so they could see what the setup for the show is. IWA spot the people at the venue and they order the titles get taken back to the locker room as they were suspicious. After their match, Dennis tells Noel he's going to shower and then they could leave together as the IWA staff was already suspicious something would happen and Dennis had two people he brought with him to all his booking who were armed and were his backup in case something would happen as there was real heat between the IWA and WWC offices. Noel decides to blow off Dennis and he leaves with his ex-wife. The two people who came to the arena with Niche and Lynx spot Noel walking out the arena and they tell Niche and Lynx and they head off running to the entrance and they confront Noel. They all start arguing and in the middle of the argument, Niche and Lynx try to snatch Noel's suitcase where he had the titles and they fall on the ground and Niche and Lynx grab the titles, so Niche and Lynx leave the arena with 1 IWA tag title and 1 WWC tag title. Noel goes back in the venue and he tells Dennis what happened and Dennis got pissed and told him he should've stayed and waited as that's why he had backup for them because he knew something could happen.

Miguel Pérez Jr. called the police and opened a report about the confrontation. The police are now searching for Niche and Lynx all over the north of Puerto Rico. People from the IWA staff that knew Niche and Lynx call them and tell them to protect their families and homes as Dennis and Noel were out for them and they were armed which wasn't true as Dennis went out to have a drink with his friends after show and Noel went home, plus they weren't armed themselves, their backup was. On Monday morning, Niche and Lynx come to the WWC offices with the IWA tag title and WWC tag title and the police arrive to speak with Carlos and Victor Jovica who are the heads of the office and Carlos calls in Niche and Lynx. Carlos tells the police it's nothing major and just wrestling and the police close the report. Niche and Lynx are blown away as they just saw how being a pro-wrestler could help them manipulate the police in their favor.

Both companies offices spoke and eventually all of the titles were returned and the entire thing came to an end.

Unfortunately the only real good video of this hasn't been posted anywhere that I am aware of and what's out there is bad video quality, but they did put clips of their higher quality video on the podcast, but it's just the promo and Dennis and Noel leaving the arena in their ring gear with the titles.

Dennis has heat in real life with Invader #1 as he's Savio Vega's little brother. Niche said he should try to get Invader to record an episode of the podcast with him and Dennis said he would if Invader agreed to it and he said it would be a good idea to stream it live for episode 100 as they are currently on episode 94. Dennis said he would record with metal detectors just to play it safe and make sure no has any foreign objects on them.

I saw a clip of a separate interview with Chicky Starr and Chicky mentioned the Japanese yakuza flew to Puerto Rico and they arrived at the arena in Caguas for a show and they were looking for Invader and luckily Victor Quiñones was there and he was able to speak to them.

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F4W reported Bob Ryder passed away. Brings me back to the early days of the IWC and reading about the Monday Night War. I'm sure people know the story better than I do but wasn't 1wrestling secretly funded by WCW or something? I wanna say Joey Styles was involved. I know a lot came out about Ryder not divulging how entangled he was when "reporting." Basically, I think he was literally what people accused Meltzer of being today.   

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2 hours ago, Log said:

One of the worst offenses of modern WWE is making every wrestler think they have to have some stupid-ass hard cam pose. 

I confess I used to contemplate how much time new wrestlers signed to WWE had to spend in front of a mirror - either at the PC or at home - trying pose after pose only to have to say "Damn it, that one's taken!" over...and over...and over...

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Listened to an Invader #3 interview last night.

This is not the same Invader from the Bruiser Brody incident. This is Invader #3, Johnny Rivera. The one from the Brody incident is Invader #1, José Huertas González.

He's in his 70s and doesn't really go into detail too much about his wrestling career.

He said he teamed up with Andre the Giant when he worked for WWE in the 70s and 80s and that Andre loved Puerto Ricans and he showed a photo of Andre with his wife and kids he has in his house.

He talked briefly about his All Japan tours. He said Giant Baba saw him work an MSG show and enquired about booking him. His first tour was unmasked as Johnny Rodriguez. He also worked in the US without the mask as Johnny Rodriguez.

He puts over Vince Sr. and Carlos Colón are the two top promoters he worked for.

He was one of the top trainers in Puerto Rico. He trained Mecha Wolf/Hammet/Mr. 450/whatever he's called these days, Amazona, Tavu, Sir William de la Vega, etc.

Out of the 4 Invaders, he's the only one who's wrestled as Invader #1, Invader #2 and Invader #3 across the world. However in Puerto Rico he only wrestled as Invader #3, though.

The highlight of the interview was the famous Manny Fernandez diving knee blood vomiting angle. He claims it was 100% a shoot. He was really injured and vomiting blood which adds to Manny Fernandez' also claiming it was a shoot.

Aside from that, the other highlight was seeing him unmask. It's been 25+ years I believe since he's been unmasked on any wrestling show. 

Edited by Edwin
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1 minute ago, BrianS81177 said:

OK so that makes me a little confused then. I always thought Fernandez did what he did as revenge on Brody's killer. So if 3 had nothing to do with it why did Fernandez hurt him so bad?

No idea. That would be a question better suited for Manny Fernandez.

I know they were tag partners and Invader #1 was the booker, but there wasn't much else that tied Invader #1 and Invader #3 together.

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18 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

I maintain that Rude getting hurt at the end of '92 just before he was going to become WCW Heavyweight Champ robbed us of some all-time great television.

I've said it before, but Rude in 1992 is probably my favorite wrestler year ever. The ring work and character work were insanely good. He spent half the summer trolling Ricky Steamboat for accidentally hitting Madusa when throwing a punch, and it was legitimately one of the greatest heel troll jobs ever. What a piece of shit that character was.

Rude in 1992 is up there with Midnights in 1988, Bret in 1997, Austin in 1998, and Rock in 2003 for me. Or I guess Jim Breaks in 1978, though I have less of a bead on the breadth of his work from that year. 

It's a great what if to think if Rude hadn't died, he would have come back in 99 and at the very least we'd get him and Hennig running rough shot over the WCW Tag division.

Of course this all leads to an alternate universe where Rick Rude went to TNA in 2003 and Jarrett still beat him and everyone else.

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18 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

I really need to just mainline a bunch of All Japan's Women work in the '80s. That's a HUGE blind spot in my viewing that I need to correct. I'm going to find a match list and try to watch this winter.

I give you two words: Dump Matsumoto

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18 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

I maintain that Rude getting hurt at the end of '92 just before he was going to become WCW Heavyweight Champ robbed us of some all-time great television.

I've said it before, but Rude in 1992 is probably my favorite wrestler year ever. The ring work and character work were insanely good. He spent half the summer trolling Ricky Steamboat for accidentally hitting Madusa when throwing a punch, and it was legitimately one of the greatest heel troll jobs ever. What a piece of shit that character was.

Rude in 1992 is up there with Midnights in 1988, Bret in 1997, Austin in 1998, and Rock in 2003 for me. Or I guess Jim Breaks in 1978, though I have less of a bead on the breadth of his work from that year. 

When I was a kid I absolutely loved Big Boss Man and loathed Rick Rude and I am still heated that we never got their blowoff match.

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43 minutes ago, Phantom Lord said:

It's a great what if to think if Rude hadn't died, he would have come back in 99 and at the very least we'd get him and Hennig running rough shot over the WCW Tag division.

Of course this all leads to an alternate universe where Rick Rude went to TNA in 2003 and Jarrett still beat him and everyone else.

Who's to say Rude wouldn't have been the first to jump *back*? 

 

2 minutes ago, Zimbra said:

When I was a kid I absolutely loved Big Boss Man and loathed Rick Rude and I am still heated that we never got their blowoff match.

Corporate Bossman vs. a Val Venis-ized Rude in '98 or '99? Hell yeah. 

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1 minute ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Who's to say Rude wouldn't have been the first to jump *back*? 

 

Corporate Bossman vs. a Val Venis-ized Rude in '98 or '99? Hell yeah. 

Oh, I'd watch it, but Bossman was also pretty broken down by 98.  I want to see prime Traylor bumping for all Rude's power moves.

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1 minute ago, Zimbra said:

Oh, I'd watch it, but Bossman was also pretty broken down by 98.  I want to see prime Traylor bumping for all Rude's power moves.

Totally fair, I'm a little bit biased/clouded by the thought of how fun the promos would be 

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