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Raw is the Golden Role Models - 7/27/2020


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That was also a really great way to write off Kairi Sane. Bayley’s beatdown was great wrestling — ramming someone’s head a bunch of times should straight up kill you, and it looked good, but it was also obviously protected. I do not need something to look completely real for it to feel real. 
 

So many of the NXT alum know how to really sell emotion with their facial expressions. It is just unreal. I never watched any of Asuka’s Japan work. Was she as good doing that as she is here?
She really looked torn and sympathetic watching her best friend get killed. But Bayley and Sasha and Becky and Charlotte and Nikki, etc. are so good at that end of performance. IMO, Alexa is the best of the entire group. Her whole very successful career is built around her whole “Ivy League student going to a party with people she went to high school with and now thinks they are ignorant garbage” expressions. That has now transformed into a really good babyface. I loved her reaction to Nikki’s shove.

That was a great “moral choice” character moment for Asuka. Those types of stories are when wrestling really rules. It is even better because Asuka gave up the title and still failed in her attempt to save her friend. Great villainry.

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26 minutes ago, Infinit said:

I was waiting for Joe to stand up for Dominik.

That would have been great, but I did love him cheering Dominink on as he hit Seth & Bud with the kendo stick.

9 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

So many of the NXT alum know how to really sell emotion with their facial expressions. It is just unreal. I never watched any of Asuka’s Japan work. Was she as good doing that as she is here?

Its not something Japanese wrestlers are really called on to do often though most tend to do ok wen needed.

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Skipping through the show and the women's title match really infuriated me.  Losing the title on count out feels wrong on so many levels that I wish there was some other kind of fuckery to lead to Sasha winning.  As much as I hated it even a distraction to finish>pin deal would have been preferred.  And you still could have written out Kairi if you really had to.  But while I know it'll lead to Asuka murderdeathkilling Bayley/Sasha I'm just so bummed out to see Kairi being written out this way.  If she's going to be a WWE ambassador or whatever then it wouldn't have hurt to just have her win last week and that's it. 

Then again Kairi leaving reminds me of just how much they fucked her up on the main roster.   She had a much better chance in NXT and was popular.  Then she gets called up and it all just felt like a blur until she teamed with Asuka.  In a competent company she would fared so much better which is unfortunate considering who she worked for.

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Dominik certainly knows how to swing a kendo stick. 

I don’t know if it was the way the segment was shot or whatever, but Nia somehow looked less mobile than usual. I thought it was noticeable that Shayna would run at Nia and almost bump herself back before getting up and running at Nia again. Not a criticism of Nia at all as I know she’s had knee surgeries, but it’s the first time I’ve ever noticed it.

Particularly when Sasha and Asuka are out there having a really fun super athletic match on the same show.

Raw really would be a great 2 hour show at the moment. 

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You know how The Rock would really go out his way to show he could hang with Eddie Guerrero and Benoit when he worked against them. I feel that way about Sasha and Asuka, I feel like she steps it up big time against Asuka every time regardless of the shitty finishes. 

Last night match wasn't as good as the Extreme Rules match but it was different. More submission work here but that finish makes the Babyface come off so dumb and downplays the importance of the title. I understand the Kairi Sane story but they could've came up with a finish that doesn't make Asuka look dumb. Ever with her silliness,  everyone knows she's the baddest woman on the roster so why go with that 

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Raw ratings are down from last week. This week did 1.69 million, 1.68 million, 1.46 million.

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47 minutes ago, D.Z said:

Raw ratings are down from last week. This week did 1.69 million, 1.68 million, 1.46 million.

As much as I like Sasha can we admit she’s definitely not a draw at all? That third hour number is beyond abysmal when you figure how much hype her match, and Drew/Dolph had going in. 

To make matters worse (and highlight the fact Sasha and Bayley are overexposed almost as badly as Charlotte Flair) Meltzer said they lost 14% of their female audience for the third hour too. So when you can’t even retain female viewers what’s the point of Sasha and Bayley dominating the TV time for women? Besides Bayley’s stupid “Karen” gimmick that some of you love for whatever reason.

Vince badly needs to reset the women’s division, and figure out who should be used better (Bianca Belair for starters).

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42 minutes ago, MavsFan77 said:

To make matters worse (and highlight the fact Sasha and Bayley are overexposed almost as badly as Charlotte Flair) Meltzer said they lost 14% of their female audience for the third hour too. So when you can’t even retain female viewers what’s the point of Sasha and Bayley dominating the TV time for women? Besides Bayley’s stupid “Karen” gimmick that some of you love for whatever reason.

Vince badly needs to reset the women’s division, and figure out who should be used better (Bianca Belair for starters).

Its not almost. They have been overexposed every bit as much as Charlotte was, and its starting to work against them. I love Bayley & Sasha's act, but there is a point where it gets to be too much for the audience, especially when other talent start to suffer for it.

Edited by Eivion
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45 minutes ago, MavsFan77 said:

To make matters worse (and highlight the fact Sasha and Bayley are overexposed almost as badly as Charlotte Flair) Meltzer said they lost 14% of their female audience for the third hour too.

but I thought you hated talk about ratings and demographics?

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34 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Its not almost. They have been overexposed every bit as much as Charlotte was, and its starting to work against them. I love Bayley & Sasha's act, but there is a point where it gets to be too much for the audience, especially when other talent start to suffer for it.

Not only have they overexposed them over the past month, they’ve done it while unleashing a cavalcade of egregiously bullshit finishes that would suck the enjoyment out of just about anybody’s act.  Every show, I check the results and I’m just like, “Why would anyone waste their time getting invested in this shit?”

Edited by EVA
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That third hour is concerning. The first two are par for the course, but big YIKES to Hour 3. 

Not surprising, though. Between running another WTF finish with Asuka/Sasha and doing a second Extreme Rules match with McIntyre/Ziggler where they didn't even bother putting the title on the line, there was bound to be a drop. They've leaned in too far with Bayley/Sasha and have pretty much sacrificed both women's divisions. McIntyre/Orton will be at least good, but predictable. Then again, who else is there to face Drew right now? The eye for an eye saga has jumped the shark to where Jaws has skid marks on his dorsal fin. Andrade/Garza will fight for the tag belts, despite losing to Street Profits recently. They shouldn't have had Ali face Lashley so soon, let him get a couple of more wins while his return is still fresh. 

Nothing is terrible to a point of no return, but nearly everything is overbooked or redundant. Which is worse.

 

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I hate to break up the narrative party @MavsFan77 @EVA @Burgundy LaRue @Eivion   but the Sasha/Asuka match began in the second hour and the finish was at about ten after 10pm.  

The third hour was almost exclusively not Sasha/Asuka.  

So while the "overexposed" narrative might have some merit...  it kinda doesn't.   Also,  the only week NXT beat AEW in the Wednesday ratings were when Sasha and Bayley were heavily involved (outside of Lee/Cole unification).   Sasha's match against Io Sharai did nearly one million viewers vs. the AEW main event with Omega/Page that did about 600,000 

Also,  while Charlotte was on NXT the ratings were in the 500,000s.   

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1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I hate to break up the narrative party @MavsFan77 @EVA @Burgundy LaRue @Eivion   but the Sasha/Asuka match began in the second hour and the finish was at about ten after 10pm.  

The third hour was almost exclusively not Sasha/Asuka.  

So while the "overexposed" narrative might have some merit...  it kinda doesn't.   Also,  the only week NXT beat AEW in the Wednesday ratings were when Sasha and Bayley were heavily involved (outside of Lee/Cole unification).   Sasha's match against Io Sharai did nearly one million viewers vs. the AEW main event with Omega/Page that did about 600,000 

Also,  while Charlotte was on NXT the ratings were in the 500,000s.   

Re: the rating versus the makeshift main event due Moxley not being available 

Believing that you can continue to draw those same numbers under different circumstances is what leads to overexposure. While you mentioned they went against Omega & Page, you failed to mention the Best Friends part. While I do remember Chuck doing good numbers for one match last year I believe, I don't remember the tag team being a draw. Plus, they did a bait and switch essentially. That isn't going to make viewers happy. 

And to be fair to Charlotte, she went when NXT was super cold as hell (like now LOL) which is why they sent her down there. If they believed Sasha and Bayley could repeat that success, they would be on NXT every week in some capacity. Not that they couldn't because all these shows are skeleton crew in the wake of the outbreak. It's one thing to go to NXT when they're basically doing a multi part Takeover on television that they built too. It's a whole different ask to pull the nose on the plane when people have seen the act play out on all the shows week after week after week.

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9 hours ago, Infinit said:

I was waiting for Joe to stand up for Dominik.

As much as I would have wanted to see that, I loved his call of "RUMBLE YOUNG MAN, RUMBLE" while the kid was going apeshit. Maybe he has at some point, but I almost feel like Joe needs to address why he's commentating now and why he's not involved. Since when the never ending Monday Night Messiah angle started, he got involved physically and stood up to Seth. Then he disappears and comes back to commentating. At least throw something out like "the powers that be said I can't touch anybody. My job is to talk now." Something.

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22 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

And to be fair to Charlotte, she went when NXT was super cold as hell (like now LOL) which is why they sent her down there. 

Yes but the idea was that she was supposed to help and this is what happened: 

Dave Meltzer revealed on Wrestling Observer Radio that Flair’s recent NXT match against Dynamite was a total flop in the viewership department, saying, “The Charlotte Flair/Mia Yim match was actually a low point. It did 170,000 in 18-49, which is dreadful.

 https://www.forbes.com/sites/blakeoestriecher/2020/05/09/wwes-big-plan-for-a-top-nxt-star-is-failing/#22193dfd3476

I can't even pin it on her opponent because overall the NXT numbers didn't improve at all while Charlotte was there,  they were just really bad the whole time. 

Anyway,  I'm not saying Sasha/Bayley is a big draw or they can repeat the success,  I'm saying that nobody is a draw. Trying to push a narrative that one performer is helping or hurting like I guess @MavsFan77 and others are doing ain't it.  The entire company is down and out for the count. 

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2 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I hate to break up the narrative party @MavsFan77 @EVA @Burgundy LaRue @Eivion   but the Sasha/Asuka match began in the second hour and the finish was at about ten after 10pm.  

The third hour was almost exclusively not Sasha/Asuka.  

So while the "overexposed" narrative might have some merit...  it kinda doesn't.   Also,  the only week NXT beat AEW in the Wednesday ratings were when Sasha and Bayley were heavily involved (outside of Lee/Cole unification).   Sasha's match against Io Sharai did nearly one million viewers vs. the AEW main event with Omega/Page that did about 600,000 

Also,  while Charlotte was on NXT the ratings were in the 500,000s.   

Did I or did I not say I like Sasha? And when the last ten minutes of the match is slightly over half the match time then yeah it’s part of the third hour. 

The main event you’re referencing is one that I praised the week it happened (check the NXT thread if you don’t believe me). It also was the first week of way too many screw job finishes involving both Sasha and Bayley. After doing the one at Extreme Rules they really needed to deliver a clean finish last night (ideally Sasha winning without all the backstage BS). 

You’re preaching to the choir with the Charlotte talk as I’m not a fan of hers at all, and we can agree she’s definitely not a draw.

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5 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Yes but the idea was that she was supposed to help and this is what happened: 

 

 https://www.forbes.com/sites/blakeoestriecher/2020/05/09/wwes-big-plan-for-a-top-nxt-star-is-failing/#22193dfd3476

I can't even pin it on her opponent because overall the NXT numbers didn't improve at all while Charlotte was there,  they were just really bad the whole time. 

Anyway,  I'm not saying Sasha/Bayley is a big draw or they can repeat the success,  I'm saying that nobody is a draw. Trying to push a narrative that one performer is helping or hurting like I guess @MavsFan77 and others are doing ain't it.  The entire company is down and out for the count. 

That’s not the narrative I was going for at all. For about the millionth time I’m a Sasha fan. 

I was stating the third hour numbers sucked as they hit an all time low. I also correctly pointed out (like Meltzer did) that the female audience decreased greatly in the last hour. Which considering the women took up the first quarter hour of that hour doesn’t speak well for them drawing in the female audience. You can’t tell me women watched the end of that match and turned out knowing Drew (who has a strong female following based on social media) was still to come. 

My point was more the booking of the women in general lately sucks, and badly needs to be corrected. Is that something you’re in agreement with or are you going to try defending the crap they’re giving us?

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1 minute ago, MavsFan77 said:

It also was the first week of way too many screw job finishes involving both Sasha and Bayley. After doing the one at Extreme Rules they really needed to deliver a clean finish last night (ideally Sasha winning without all the backstage BS). 

I don't believe they could repeat the success in NXT,  I don't know and I agree there are too many BS finishes but as for RAW..  my point is nobody is moving the needle on that show.  We could say Sasha and Bayley aren't a draw or 'overexposed' but in the same breath we could say Drew McIntyre's title reign is a flop or Rey Mysterio isn't a draw or Randy Orton isn't a draw or the Street Profits aren't a draw. 

I mean are we going to pin this on the performers or are we going to say that creative is totally bankrupt and people have given up?  

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2 minutes ago, MavsFan77 said:

Which considering the women took up the first quarter hour of that hour doesn’t speak well for them drawing in the female audience. You can’t tell me women watched the end of that match and turned out knowing Drew (who has a strong female following based on social media) was still to come.

I looked at the DVR. The match ended exactly at 10:10pm ET.  Maybe people did give up on it or maybe people tuned out afterwards, how would we know that? Are you telling me that Drew and Dolph drew a higher number? Maybe they did.. I doubt it though. 

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12 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Yes but the idea was that she was supposed to help and this is what happened

That's less Charlotte and more let's not stick you on television organically but instead in a hamfisted manner. Charlotte herself came into NXT overexposed by then. I expect viewers to be repelled by that. 

16 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Anyway,  I'm not saying Sasha/Bayley is a big draw or they can repeat the success

Then there is no point in they saying, "Buh gawd, they drew A WHOLE MILLION against this C-level main event AEW was forced to do because they wanted take precaution against COVID-19!" Cause that means that you believe they can easily do it again this week or next week if need be. 

19 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Trying to push a narrative that one performer is helping or hurting like I guess @MavsFan77 and others are doing ain't it.  The entire company is down and out for the count. 

I don't want to speak for anyone, but I don't think the narrative is this or that person is killing the ratings. I think the narrative is maybe a new, fresh direction involving the same wrestlers is probably needed before the act becomes completely stale. 

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26 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Then there is no point in they saying, "Buh gawd, they drew A WHOLE MILLION against this C-level main event AEW was forced to do because they wanted take precaution against COVID-19!" Cause that means that you believe they can easily do it again this week or next week if need be.

The quote was "can we say now that Sasha isn't a draw?" by @MavsFan77 followed by more posts of the overexposed discussion. My point was only that their number on NXT was good and the RAW numbers have been abysmal no matter what's going on.

As for the rest of the post, Io/Sasha had one week of build,  I don't know how Omega/Page and Best Friends is considered C-Level when two of the guys are main eventers in that promotion and Orange Cassidy is someone that they are heavily pushing. AEW this past week had no build for Cody/Kingston and that did well.  AEW throws a lot of stuff together last minute and does well. 

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I mentioned Sasha because while her match with Asuka started during Hour 2, it went into Hour 3. The decreased ratings are probably two-fold: some being turned off by yet another weird finish AND Drew-Ziggler being for nothing, which I noted.

I wasn't putting down Sasha and Bayley. I respect most of their act and think it could sustain itself for a while longer under better circumstances. But it's getting overdone. That's not on them. Just pointing out what most of us see.

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