WWE Network Conversation

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Backlash 2001

X-Factor opened the PPV by winning a six-man over the Dudleys. That was probably their biggest win ever. X-Factor's biggest problem was a lack of identity other "group led by a longtime follower."

Rhyno quickly winning the Hardcore title was a natural extension of his reign as the final ECW champion. He added to that legacy by beating Raven, an iconic ECW champion.

The Duchess of Queensbury rules match was hilarious. Even though Jericho kept getting screwed by the changing rules, it was more funny than infuriating. Both Jericho and Regal came out looking better after the match.

Chris Benoit is the MVP for beating Kurt Angle in the Ultimate Submission match. He trailed 3-1 at the halfway mark and came back to tap out Angle three times to win in overtime.

Shane McMahon delivered a ridiculous 50-foot elbow drop onto the Big Show. This was a lot like Shane's Falls Count Anywhere match win over Big Show 11 months earlier. Test even helped Shane like he did in the first match! As impressive as Shane was, Big Show looked like a total chump losing in the same way to a non-wrestler.

The Hardys moved into the singles ranks after WrestleMania, as Jeff had a brief IC title reign and Matt won the European title. Matt defended it here successfully against Christian and Eddy. It made sense because after TLC 2, we really didn't need to see the top three teams fight each other any more.

Austin and Triple H lived up to their Two-Man Power Trip name by adding Undertaker and Kane's tag team belts to their WWF and IC titles. With The Rock promoting The Mummy Returns, this was the perfect time for Benoit and Jericho to challenge them.

[Bigbosseli]

The R-Truth wwe 24 that was after Saudi was excellent. What a guy and story.

[John from Cincinnati]

Watched the first episode of Ruthless Aggression. When they're all sitting there and waxing on about how stale and uninspired the product was at the tail end of the Attitude Era, all I could think is that they'll be saying most of the same things if they eventually do a clip show about this current era. 

Nice of them to bring in Corny to flap his gums about OVW. In which episode are they going to ask him about threatening to shoot Brock Lesnar? 

I can already tell that the revisionist history in this one is going to be delightful. If it was all pats on the back about how well the brand split was working, why the constant pushes to water it down? 

[John from Cincinnati]

On 2/25/2020 at 5:21 PM, hammerva said:

I guess the one part of revisionist history was how Orton lost the belt almost a month after beating Benoit at Summerslam.  The narrative was that Orton became such an obnoxious prick completely full of himself that they fans completely hated him and they had to remove the belt off of him.  While Orton was every bit the jerk they claim he was (and probably more),  Triple H was winning the belt almost immediately if he was the perfect champion and the crowd loved him.   Maybe he could have gotten an extra month with the title but even then I doubt it

I took it more as them telling the story of why the plug was pulled on their first crack at Randy Orton: Top Babyface. And in telling that story, I think they were mostly fair. Orton probably would have gotten the belt back from Hunter in the end if he caught fire, but that just didn't happen. Going with Batista that fast always felt like a pivot. 

Of the three episodes they've released, that was definitely my favourite. Echoing others: Poor Mark Jindrak. 

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Insurrexion 2001

The Radicals started the show with victories, as Eddy beat Grandmaster Sexay, and Malenko & Saturn defeated the Hollys.

This show was plagued with some WCW-style nonsensical booking. Terri said she couldn't wrestle the aforementioned match with the Radicals because she couldn't buy any wrestling gear in England. She couldn't bring any from the U.S.? After Terri said this would be a 2-on-2 match, Molly was right there on the ring apron waiting to be tagged into the match.

It got worse when Steven Richards and Ivory came out and announced that the women's battle royale was censored. Steven then introduced the other participants: Trish, Lita and Jackie, who attacked and stripped the RTC members. So this was supposed to be a four-woman battle royale?

Not only that, but Big Show announced that Test was too injured to wrestle him, so Big Show was the winner by forfeit. Test came out anyway and fought him, only to get injured further. Just when it seemed like Big Show was being booked correctly as an unstoppable giant, he called out the entire locker room, and Bradshaw came out and beat him in less than four minutes.

Chris Benoit wins the MVP award for the second time in the week for beating Kurt Angle 2 falls to 0. Angle was distracted by his missing gold medals, which were in Benoit's trunks throughout the match.

The Hardys, Dudleys and Edge & Christian have dealt with tables, ladders and chairs, but in this elimination match, they were also dealing with the X-Factor ... who got eliminated first. Edge & Christian won as usual, even though the tag team belts were not in the equation.

They weren't on the line in the main event, either, as Austin & Triple H faced The Undertaker in a handicap match. Although Taker could win the WWF title by pinning Austin, he was more concerned with avenging an injury to Kane and decided to pin HHH instead. The announcers valiantly tried to cover up for this by stating that Taker was now the No. 1 contender to Austin's WWF titie.

No. 1 contender for worst fan sign ever? "ASTIN SLOD OUT" (held upside down)

Edited March 11, 2020 by Gorman

[hammerva]

You have to watch the new 24 on R-Truth.   A great story about his beginnings in life and getting into wrestling.  The reunion with him and Jackie Crockett who broke him into wrestling was a great touch.   Really cool to see NWA Wildside featured on the show including Jeff G Bailey cutting promos.  Mentioned his TNA title run.   Hard to not love Killings after watching this

 

[Gorman]

Thoughts on Judgment Day 2001

Rikishi was back to his popular, rump-shaking self, but he lost the opener cleanly to William Regal. So Rikishi was only a main-eventer during his brief time as a heel.

Kurt Angle beat Chris Benoit in the third fall by climbing the ladder to retrieve his Olympic medals. Angle made sure to mention that their conflict was also about who was the best technical wrestler in the WWF, which Benoit called himself before the Angle feud.

Chyna beat Lita handily, but then she and the women's title disappeared.

Rhyno smashed into a wall backstage in his Hardcore title match against Big Show and Test. In previous weeks, guys would get thrown through doors and windows. Didn't the arena managers have a problem with this?

Kane won the IC title from HHH in a chain match, and fortunately the object of the match was not to drag your opponent to all four corners.

X-Factor used their extra man to beat the Acolytes and Hardys in the Tag Team Turmoil match, but then Chris Jericho showed up with Benoit as his mystery partner. They beat X-Factor and Edge & Christian to earn a title shot against Austin and HHH.

Yes, this means Benoit won the MVP award for the third time in a row. He wrestled five falls in the night, as the WWF leaned on his technical skill like they did with Bret Hart in the mid-90s.

Undertaker made a colossal mistake by demanding that his title match with Austin be No Holds Barred. Commissioner Regal asked Austin if that was okay with him, and he said sure. Of course, HHH and Vince McMahon were allowed to interfere liberally and help Austin win. Kane showed up (with pyro), but he was too late.

Worst fan sign: "Get The Tabel" -- Didn't his family and friends notice this?

 

Edited March 3, 2020 by Gorman

[Brian Fowler]

I'm pretty sure all the walls, doors, windows, etc they broke in those days were temporary sets they built, and not actually part of the arenas.

[RIPPA]

On 3/1/2020 at 9:41 PM, hammerva said:

You have to watch the new 24 on R-Truth.   A great story about his beginnings in life and getting into wrestling.  The reunion with him and Jackie Crockett who broke him into wrestling was a great touch.   Really cool to see NWA Wildside featured on the show including Jeff G Bailey cutting promos.  Mentioned his TNA title run.   Hard to not love Killings after watching this

It also reminded me about one of the simple smarter decisions TNA/Impact did was agreeing to the deal with WWE to allow footage on the Network

Such a simple advertisement - I mean it might not mean much but it real costs them nothing

Also - clearly the beginning of the decade WWE is now a blind spot for me because I had zero memory of the Truth/Road Dogg team

[Infinit]

38 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

It also reminded me about one of the simple smarter decisions TNA/Impact did was agreeing to the deal with WWE to allow footage on the Network

Such a simple advertisement - I mean it might not mean much but it real costs them nothing

Also - clearly the beginning of the decade WWE is now a blind spot for me because I had zero memory of the Truth/Road Dogg team

I think the most memorable thing K-Kwick and Road Dogg did was get made fun of by Edge and Christian for their BOOF jerseys lol

[Eivion]

3 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Also - clearly the beginning of the decade WWE is now a blind spot for me because I had zero memory of the Truth/Road Dogg team

Its my first memory of Truth since I watched very little TNA.

[MORELOCK]

That run actually took place before his TNA run.

[supremebve]

 

[For Great Justice]

Brock episode of Ruthless Aggression was the weakest so far, for a few reasons. No Brock commentary (obviously), they skipped a lot of interesting stuff, and they didn’t address the obvious question of if UFC was in 2001 where it is now would he have ever been a pro wrestler in the first place. I mean I get it because the answer is likely obvious and not favorable to WWE, but that has to be a part of the story. 
 

They also didn’t mention that Brock and Goldberg had a classic at WM 15 years after the MSG match, during that segment. Not sure how you don’t bring that up.

Edited March 6, 2020 by For Great Justice

[Gorman]

Thoughts on King of the Ring 2001

Worst crowd sign was not DDP's "Make Me Famous," but "Keep On Rollen" after Undertaker sent the former WCW champion packing.

The fans didn't know whom to cheer during the King of the Ring tournament, which featured all heels: Edge, Christian, Angle and Rhyno. Shane McMahon (owner of WCW) helped Angle beat Christian to ensure that Angle would have to wrestle twice before their street fight. Shane interfered again to cause Angle to lose the tournament final to Edge. This wasn't the best way to crown Edge, as his win came off as a fluke.

In addition to Edge, both Hardys were  positioned as singles wrestlers, with Jeff defending the Light Heavyweight title over X-Pac and Matt retaining the European title over Justin Credible (on Heat). 

Meanwhile, the Dudleys were tag team champs as heels, beating Spike and his mystery partner, Kane. They didn't do their crowd-pleasing "Whazzup" and "Get the table" callouts.

The WWF advertised the next PPV as "Fully Loaded," so they made a late decision to switch it to "InVasion."

Austin beat Jericho and Benoit in the main event to retain the WWF title. This was a great match in the ring, but everything else was weird.  The crowd wanted to cheer Austin, but they couldn't because he was a heel. They couldn't get behind a babyface because there were two of them. When WCW champion Booker T came out to put Austin through a table, the fans went nuts. 

The match also had two unnecessary storylines. Vince McMahon said that Austin had to retain the title or their partnership was over. Austin spent the entire night waiting for Vince, but he never showed up. Also, the announcers kept discussing a "rumor" that if Benoit or Jericho won the title, he would defect to WCW on the next night at Madison Square Garden. Why would they go back to WCW when the WWF treated them so much better?

Kurt Angle is the MVP after wrestling Christian, Edge and then winning an insane street fight against Shane McMahon. Not only did Angle throw Shane through two "KOR" windows, but he also suplexed Shane into the windows three other times and they didn't break! The first time, Shane fell directly onto his head. After this carnage, Angle wheeled Shane's bloody, lifeless body back to the ring on an equipment cart to get the pin ... and Shane kicked out. Kurt almost broke down crying. Only Angle could deliver that much wrestling and that much emotion.

Edited March 6, 2020 by Gorman

[Brian Fowler]

The R-Truth doc is, indeed, great.

But it also reminds me now incredibly stupid breaking him and Carmela up was.

[RIPPA]

3 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

But it also reminds me now incredibly stupid breaking him and Carmela up was.

At least it was understandable when you factor in the behind the scenes reasons for it (him being dedicated to a RAW specific title, her needing to stay on SDL to be with her boyfriend)

For once it wasn't just a "Eh - fuck it break up Lana and Rusev again!"

[supremebve]

13 hours ago, Gorman said:

Kurt Angle is the MVP after wrestling Christian, Edge and then winning an insane street fight against Shane McMahon. Not only did Angle throw Shane through two "KOR" windows, but he also suplexed Shane into the windows three other times and they didn't break! The first time, Shane fell directly onto his head. After this carnage, Angle wheeled Shane's bloody, lifeless body back to the ring on an equipment cart to get the pin ... and Shane kicked out. Kurt almost broke down crying. Only Angle could deliver that much wrestling and that much emotion.

I have not watched this match in years, but it is among the most memorable matches of the 2000s for me.  The sound of Shane's skull hitting the concrete after bouncing off of that glass panel is disgusting.  I don't know what that glass was made of, but it was far too resilient.  That's an all-time crazy spectacle of a match.

[AxB]

33 minutes ago, supremebve said:

 I don't know what that glass was made of, but it was far too resilient.

The glass was made of glass. 

[DJ Hero Morganti]

Apparently they changed it from sugar glass due to pyro concerns.

[supremebve]

39 minutes ago, AxB said:

The glass was made of glass. 

Kiss my ass that's made of ass. lol

[Gorman]

Thoughts on InVasion

Cleveland was the perfect site for this PPV, because Raw was at Gund Arena when Shane announced his purchase of WCW on the final Nitro. Also, we hosted the first two 10-man main events at the first two Survivor Series. I would have loved to attend InVasion, but buying wrestling tickets wasn't as important as buying an engagement ring.

Lance Storm and Mike Awesome were also the best choices for the invaders in the opening match. Storm was the first WCW wrestler to appear on Raw, and Awesome was the first to win a title in the WWF. They lost to Edge & Christian. Earl Hebner beat Nick Patrick with all of the other WWF and WCW referees around the ring. APA beat Palumbo & O'Haire, who looked promising. So the WWF looked like they would rout the invaders.

Then the WCW-ECW Coalition (later renamed The Alliance) mounted a comeback, as Kidman beat X-Pac, Raven beat Regal with help from Tazz and WCW won the "Midcard Madness" match pitting Shawn Stasiak, Hugh Morrus and Kanyon over Big Show, Billy Gunn & Albert. Counting Chavo Jr.'s win over Scotty 2 Hotty on Heat, the invaders took a 4-3 lead. 

The two sides traded wins until the score was tied at 5, not that anything was on the line except for bragging rights. The only title match saw Rob Van Dam win the Hardcore title from Jeff Hardy. RVD looked great and had the crowd on his side, despite the fact that Cleveland had been a WWF town. Conversely, the fans booed X-Pac out of the building despite him being on the WWF side. 

Despite RVD's performance, the MVP award goes to Stone Cold Steve Austin. If he hadn't defected to the WCW side with the WWF title (which was the fear about Benoit or Jericho at King of the Ring), the Invasion would have fizzled out without a strong leader. DDP and Booker T couldn't carry the load on their own, and Rhyno and The Dudleys were already in the WWF before returning to their ECW roots. Since the WCW side couldn't bring in Flair, Luger, the Steiners, the nWo or Goldberg, Austin was their only hope of toppling the WWF.

Worst fan sign: "WE (heart) NICK FOLLY"

Edited March 11, 2020 by Gorman

[twiztor]

17 hours ago, Gorman said:

Thoughts on InVasion

if you have any questions about what was going on during the Raws and SmackDowns of the time, feel free to check out my Invasion thread from a couple years ago where i went through every match and angle of the time.  Or if you're just bored.

http://deathvalleydriver.com/forum/index.php?/topic/6883-invasion/

 

[hammerva]

The Story of FCW documentary is available on the Network.  You have to go to the live schedule number and actually click on the 11:00 PM event in order to see it. It is really great.  It does cover the developmental from the beginning and does include everything.  All the good and all the bad.   Not just featured people like Seth Rollins, the Bella Twins,  and Charlotte but Heath Slater is really the star on this documentary to me.   they talk about people who never made it like Richie Steamboat and Alex Riley a little bit.   Really put over how important everyone working there was like Dr. Ton Pritchard and Norman Smiley

The highlight is the discussion about the Dusty Rhodes promo class.   Seriously I need a 2 hour special on the Network of just nothing but FCW and NXT guys in Dusty's class.   They show some of the bad ones but also the ones that made stars like Bayley and Bray Wyatt.   I know that some of the NXT promo classes got leaked to Youtube but man we need to show more of these.   

Can't recommend it enough

[For Great Justice]

Heath was great in that doc. Strikes me as the kind of guy that can have a job in the office for as long as he wants one after he hangs em up