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FEBRUARY 2019 WRESTLING DISCUSSION.

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This was literally from the OMEGA days so whichever one of y'all wrote it, that's practically psychic.

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12 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

This was literally from the OMEGA days so whichever one of y'all wrote it, that's practically psychic.

Well, aside from the fact that both predictions were wrong.

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Matt never got the belt? And I mean, Jeff's had to have been in a wheelchair at one point or another... Oh, nevermind

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Jeff Hardy on a stretcher! 🤷🏻‍♂️

9834966.jpg

 

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12 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Matt came close to a wheelchair when he was wrestling his crippling addiction to grapes. 

dVxznrv.png

Chair of Wheels !

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7 hours ago, Web Conn said:

Ronnie Garvin of all people said in a recent interview said he believes Dusty Rhodes is overrated. 

What in the actual fuck? Who is Ronnie Garvin? I know who he is but really fuck him. Dusty wasn’t D-Bry in the ring but he could talk them into the seats for sure.

What did Ronnie Garvin ever do. He was only Champion cuz Crockett and Dusty decided they wanted to fuck with Flair.

Ronnie Garvin had some good matches, but fuck man, his terrible promos were painful, and not in a "Pat Patterson is cutting a promo with a French-Canadian version of English that doesn't quite capture his ideas" way, but in a "Dino Bravo is cutting a promo French-Canadian style, and it utterly sucks" way.

Also, can I again reiterate that I love @SorceressKnight analysis posts. They all basically attack strawmen, but they are so elaborate that it doesn't even matter. 

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7 hours ago, Web Conn said:

same ol same ol

Edited by Smelly McUgly
Dumb computer

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7 hours ago, Web Conn said:

TRIPLE KILL

 

Edited by Smelly McUgly
REALLY dumb computer

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7 hours ago, Web Conn said:

Ronnie Garvin of all people said in a recent interview said he believes Dusty Rhodes is overrated. 

What in the actual fuck? Who is Ronnie Garvin? I know who he is but really fuck him. Dusty wasn’t D-Bry in the ring but he could talk them into the seats for sure.

What did Ronnie Garvin ever do. He was only Champion cuz Crockett and Dusty decided they wanted to fuck with Flair.

Man, I love Ronnie, but the Dream was great. His in ring work gets ragged on more than it should. All he had to do was bleed, throw loopy punches and drop elbows and that's all he did and it ruled.

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9 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

 

You can't make good stories on TV dealing with the performers the diehards find the most compelling, because the diehards don't buy into storylines. The diehard fans have made their choice and they're standing by it, and no storyline you could tell them will make them change their mind because they know it's just a story and not REALITY. And that's the bigger problem that ties to what @Beech27 said. It's not toxic fan behavior to cheer or boo who you want to, but saying "Your stories don't matter, all that matters is my headcanon for the storyline I'm seeing" absolutely IS toxic fan behavior. Using LaRue's example from the January thread- saying Kevin Owens "deserved it" when he was handed the title and didn't even cheat on his own because he was Kevin Steen (NOT! Kevin Owens!) may have been fans cheering one of their favorites, but it was also the WWE equivalent of a Supernatural fangirl saying "Boring, who cares about this story in the episode, have Sam and Dean make out now." 

It's also a problem because as you said: The majority of the roster is talented- and moreso, the majority of the roster has smark cred- either coming from the indies or through NXT. And as a result, the current smark movement hasn't quite gotten what happens when the playing field is narrowed for everyone and EVERYONE has some street cred. 

When people like Mick Foley or CM Punk was around, they were basically the ONLY guy on the roster with any serious indy cred, so the smark answer was clear: "Get behind THIS GUY and push him to the top." Same with Daniel Bryan- CM Punk was still there, but he got his time in the sun so it became "Okay, Punk had his time, let's make sure Bryan gets to the top."

By contrast...the people on the main roster who had a relevant big run outside of the WWE before signing with the company as of today:

AJ Styles, Akira Tozawa, Alexander Wolfe, Andrade, Apollo Crews, 
Asuka, Bayley, Becky Lynch, Billie Kay, Bobby Lashley, Bobby Roode,
Cedric Alexander, Cesaro, Curt Hawkins, Daniel Bryan, Dean Ambrose, 
Drake Maverick, Drew Gulak, Drew McIntyre, Ember Moon, Eric Young, 
Finn Balor, Jack Gallagher, Jeff Hardy, Gran Metalik, Harper, Kalisto,

Karl Anderson Kevin Owens, Killian Dain, Lince Dorado, Lio Rush, 
Luke Gallows, Maria Kanellis, Mark Andrews, Mickie James, Mike Kanellis, 
Mustafa Ali, Natalya, Noam Dar, R-Truth, Rey Mysterio, 
Ruby Riott, Sami Zayn, Samir Singh, Samoa Joe, Sarah Logan
Seth Rollins, Shinsuke Nakamura, Shelton Benjamin, Sunil Singh, TJP
The Brian Kendrick, Tony Nese, Xavier Woods, Zelina Vega 

This list does not even count the amount of people who were basically signed as unknowns and became beloved stars on NXT, which would only add MORE names to that list.

You will notice this is the vast majority of the WWE roster to date.

ARE ALL OF THESE PEOPLE SUPPOSED TO HOLD THE WWE WORLD/UNIVERSAL/RAW AND SMACKDOWN WOMEN'S TITLES AT THE EXACT SAME TIME?  Like, they all hold the title aloft in the main event of Wrestlemania and just...share it?

That's another big problem for the diehards: They can't murder their darlings. Make no mistake- just from that list, the smarks WON. There is no stone the WWE leaves unturned, and the cream will rise to the WWE and get to be stars. 

However, the diehards don't truly get what to do when the answer becomes:

"Yes. This wrestler is really talented. So is THIS wrestler.

Yes, this wrestler worked hard on the independent scene toiling for years to get their opportunity. So did THIS wrestler.

Yes, this wrestler deserves to see their hard work rewarded by getting to hold the top title. So did THIS wrestler.

BUT THERE'S ONLY ONE TITLE, AND THEY CAN'T SHARE IT.

For one of these people to succeed, the other one MUST FAIL. CHOOSE."

I don’t seem to remember people getting behind Foley because of his Indy cred...  can you refresh me on this?  

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Garvin still has hard feelings from how he left in 88. I think he was frustrated by his world title and how he was set up to fail. Making no title defenses and losing to Flair cleanly at Starrcade. He turned heel at the 88 Bash, but at that point he felt he was going to be a fall guy to get Dusty his heat back. It can be argued with, but I can see why he had hard feelings. There were a lot of guys who were unhappy with Dusty that year, but Garvin was the only guy still mad at Dusty. 

If he had been more patient, he would have in all likelihood gotten a spot in the Horsemen after Tully and Arn quit. 

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4 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I agree. I’ve been very restrained. 

Also, I like Becky fine. She was a great midcard act the last couple years. 

I am the one who dislikes Becky. You have been very restrained. 

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7 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

Diehard fans refusing to refer to wrestlers by their WWE names always seemed particularly petty, but I've actually noticed it happening less and less as of late.

I will agree, a lot of diehards are starting to have it happen less and less for wrestlers getting referred to by their WWE names.

But even then, that mentality is more than just a "indy name" mentality, but rather a "you have to push this person like [INDY NAME], not in a lower level for it." With that in place, there can't be logical claims like "Kevin Owens is clearly a failed experiment as a main event player and just being in the upper midcard is the right place for him", because he's Kevin Steen so he HAS to be a main event player. Even for lower names it's there- Rowan as Daniel Bryan's sidekick works not just because Rowan's big and fits the role of Biodiesel, but also the hardcore storyline of "Daniel Bryan is holding Luke Harper back! Harper was on the indies too! Bryan should have picked HIM to be a star and gotten another indies guy over! Bryan sold out!".

And that also helps things- people don't boo Big E because he didn't work ROH, but it ties to the other problem: NXT was the indy fed of the 2010s, and that has also changed things to give WWE this abundance of riches....and ultimately adds to the same issue:

If everyone has smark cred, then having smark cred no longer means anything. Having the diehards' love no longer means anything, because as said- by and large the diehards love everyone, they'd be fine with...well, pretty much anyone on the roster getting a big push. 

This is the whole problem, because if smark cred means nothing and everyone has it, then you HAVE to go back to kayfabe and what the stories are on TV to make the tiebreaker, and the diehards refuse to do that. If you'd be perfectly happy if pretty much anyone on the roster got to reach the top of the mountain, then either you have to let the WWE make their stories and run with those...or you're basically saying "we don't want storylines or angles. Just give us a bunch of random title wins where everyone on the roster gets to hold the World Title aloft so we can be happy that they got the World Title reign they deserve."

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9 hours ago, Web Conn said:

Ronnie Garvin of all people said in a recent interview said he believes Dusty Rhodes is overrated. 

What in the actual fuck? Who is Ronnie Garvin? I know who he is but really fuck him. Dusty wasn’t D-Bry in the ring but he could talk them into the seats for sure.

What did Ronnie Garvin ever do. He was only Champion cuz Crockett and Dusty decided they wanted to fuck with Flair.

Ronnie Garvin was awesome and his match with Flair at Starrcade '87 holds up to any Dusty/Flair match from the same time period. 

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Flair/Garvin at Starrcade 87 is equal to the Steamboat matches. I think he is Flair's best opponent. 

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Just now, Victator said:

Flair/Garvin at Starrcade 87 is equal to the Steamboat matches. I think he is Flair's best opponent. 

I never saw the match where Garvin wins the title in full.  Only clips.  Seemed like it was good though.  

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Just now, Niners Fan in CT said:

I never saw the match where Garvin wins the title in full.  Only clips.  Seemed like it was good though.  

There is a great match in the TBS studio. The small space really added to the match. 

The series with Greg Valentine always got a lot of love here. Garvin brought Valentine back to life in 89. 

He had a really good TV match with Earthquake before Wrestlemania 6. He was really good getting guys over and making himself look credible. Like Tito Santana, he fell off the face of the Earth after 1994. 

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So now it sounds like Dean is working face at house shows? 

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Sounds like it’s only because a number of wrestlers couldn’t make their flights due to the weather (Rollins, Banks, etc) and they needed a second face(ish) wrestler for the fatal fourway IC title match at that house show. No doubt it would have been Lashley vs Rollins vs McIntyre vs Balor if the weather wasn’t as bad.

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5 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

B0JqbrfCQAAPWVx.jpg 

Man, this feud was pretty half-arsed wasn’t it? It seemed like neither of them wanted to do it. Compare it to the TNA insanity from a few years ago and it’s chalk n cheese 

3 hours ago, Victator said:

Flair/Garvin at Starrcade 87 is equal to the Steamboat matches. I think he is Flair's best opponent. 

I have witnessed the most DVDVR statement ever. You can close the message board now 

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Wasn't the entire Hardyz 2009 feud done just because word had leaked it was Christian attacking Jeff and Vince wanted a surprise instead?

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11 minutes ago, CreativeControl said:

I have witnessed the most DVDVR statement ever. You can close the message board now 

Anybody that has seen the match knows it is not a crazy statement. Flair and Garvin had very hard hitting action filled matches. 

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