Matt D Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I do have a good friend who hasn't been truly invested in Star Wars since Phantom Menace ruined it all but when he was younger was heavily into it and the EU for the first few books and he's only going to be happy if Mara Jade shows up and if Jar Jar turns out to be the dark force behind everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wilson Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I can't read 13 pages since I am not quite that crazy, but I loved the movie. I thought Daisy Ridley was fantastic, I am glad going in I didn't know who the protagonist even were or what happened plot-wise so everything was a surprise (except the things I could figure out from the plot while watching it). But I thought the acting was great (such a relief after the prequels) and think they set them up really well for Movie 2 without leaving a major cliffhanger that would piss people off. Really great movie, going to see it again on Thursday with a new group of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 It's very reassuring to know someone is with me on this: http://io9.gizmodo.com/theres-one-thing-i-totally-hate-about-the-force-awakens-1749285767 (And it's much more of a head cannon thing than an EU thing since "the EU was unhappy anyway, you ignorant jerk" seems to be the biggest response to the article) Somewhat a naive and silly view point that things would've always gone smoothly for Han Solo and Leia. You can't tell a story without conflict. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I think the sentiment is that the author understands why they went the way they did and even agrees with it on some level. He just hates it. I feel a lot stronger about the destruction of the New Republic as a sign of a greater failure, but in general, there's just so much failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I am in the camp of I just want Mara Jade to show up but fully understanding that I would be disappointed in it. I'm also thinking that knowing very little beforehand helped rekindle a lot of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I think the sentiment is that the author understands why they went the way they did and even agrees with it on some level. He just hates it. I feel a lot stronger about the destruction of the New Republic as a sign of a greater failure, but in general, there's just so much failure. Hate is a strong word and sounds ridiculous. Heroes going through failures is part of the journey. Rian Johnson isn't going to use Mara Jade. He will want to make new characters and leave his own stamp on this franchise. So there won't be any Plagueis, Grand Admiral Thrawn, or Mara Jade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wilson Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Honestly I don't think there should be. Leave those awesome stories on their own and make new ones, no need to really take characters from a story that is already not being used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Despite my petty annoyances, I thought it was a hellava show. Probably won't pay to see it again in the expensive movies, but probably on the second run, and like the prequels, it'll grow on me even more as time goes on. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Saw it this afternoon, my one trip to a theatre for the year. It was like running into THAT GIRL from high school, and for just a brief moment in time you feel 16 again. This implies both some good and bad things, but way more good. Abrams' one trick of "callbacks to things people liked" is so much better in the Wars environment. It's "plot hole the motion picture" but honestly, that really doesn't matter at all. This was very enjoyable. A big giant grand adventure which is why you drop money to go to a theatre and be taken to another place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Oh, lightsabres giving off steam while fighting in a snowy cold environment is the fucking best. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Saw it this afternoon, my one trip to a theatre for the year. It was like running into THAT GIRL from high school, and for just a brief moment in time you feel 16 again. This implies both some good and bad things, but way more good. Abrams' one trick of "callbacks to things people liked" is so much better in the Wars environment. It's "plot hole the motion picture" but honestly, that really doesn't matter at all. This was very enjoyable. A big giant grand adventure which is why you drop money to go to a theatre and be taken to another place. It didn't have any more plot holes than any of the other movies in the series. Everything seemed pretty logical and understandable to me. They movies are really for kids to understand, so the broad strokes are easy to follow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Yeah, I mean, one of the reason it works so much better in Star Wars than in Trek is because Wars has always been that way to begin with. It's told more in a kind of old folk tale way where the old man tells his kid the story about the hero walked tall and slew the 400 foot tall giant walking uphill both ways and saved the kingdom. There have always been big gaps fans have to fill in on their own to begin with. That's part of the charm. In a sense I think Star Wars isn't a film series where you should even take what happens on the screen to be totally literal, but more of a tall tale about the Star Wars universe where not everything always totally fits. If that makes sense. And that's exactly why a few weird happenings in a film like this really don't bother me, because it fits with the storytelling approach the series at it's best goes for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I feel like the plot holes in TFA were the most minor of shit that only pedantic nerds who need every little detail explained would be concerned with. The prequels make more plot holes in ANH than anything in TFA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Slightly off topic, but Max Landis is totally right about the Rey character being a Mary Sue. The rest of the internet really hates him for saying it for some weird reason. I still actually really like Rey, but I watched ANH yesterday and I was sort of shocked to see how flawed Luke was in comparison. I guess I never really noticed because practically every character in the originals is flawed, but when you compare it to this film? Yeah, I totally get what Max is saying. Anywhoo to swing this back around DVDVR style.... Here is a great series of tweets: Max Landis @Uptomyknees 28m28 minutes ago Thing I learned today: CM Punk doesn't know what a Mary Sue is. Max Landis @Uptomyknees 28m28 minutes ago Thing I learned today: there needs to be a new term for Mary Sue. I had no idea that term was such a firestarter, but there's no alternative Max Landis @Uptomyknees 28m28 minutes ago Rey is John Cena. The end. Coach @CMPunk 26m26 minutes ago You're phantom menace. Max Landis @Uptomyknees Thing I learned today: CM Punk doesn't know what a Mary Sue is. More Cracked me the fuck up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 That stupid ass term started with a Star Trek fan fiction story so I'm choosing to ignore it's existence. Mainly because this is the dumbest argument I've seen about this movie. The bolded word is important, because it's a movie and WHO CARES. Unrealistic talents like... being a mechanic? Are you joking? Sure, okay, maybe being a fighter and pilot is unrealistic, but I'm choosing to believe the Force helped her with the fighting, and her piloting wasn't exactly smooth as silk when she was with Finn in the Falcon at the beginning. I guess it's unrealistic to think that most people would at least know the basics of piloting an aircraft in a world where that's your only transportation more or less. Even the "cars" are fucking aircrafts! I really don't understand this argument and I think it's just something else for people that have to nitpick every single detail of a film like this to pieces because... reasons? Because it doesn't "recapture the magic" of a film from 40 years ago. I'm with Punk on this one. Landis can fuck off. Salon did a nice write up about this (stupid) issue and it's absolutely true. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I'm not really interested in getting into the whole Mary Sue thing, but I'd say Rey's level of competence far exceeds just "being a mechanic." Nearly every action sequence in the movie involves her cracking open some different piece of machinery and knowing just the right thing to pull out or connect to make it do what she wants. And it's never like she's just guessing. She knows exactly what she's looking for every time, even on Starkiller Base, which you would have to assume is composed of technology far beyond whatever she's seen during her life as a scavenger on a backwater planet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I'm not really interested in getting into the whole Mary Sue thing, but I'd say Rey's level of competence far exceeds just "being a mechanic." Nearly every action sequence in the movie involves her cracking open some different piece of machinery and knowing just the right thing to pull out to make it do what she wants. And it's never like she's just guessing. She knows exactly what she's looking for every time, even on Starkiller Base, which you would have to assume is composed of technology far beyond whatever she's seen during her life as a scavenger on a backwater planet. Yeah, those scenes in the Falcon after Han showed up were especially odd. Unlike some people with similar gripes, I loved that she was able to pick up force tricks on her own. That was cool shit, but it also takes some steam out of the ending. Rey pretty much skips Luke's arc in IV and V straight to Green Lightsaber Luke. Which is fine on its own, but when you are setting up Luke in the teacher role..... well you see the problem. She's already shown more Jedi shit than Luke did in two movies. With no training. And the set up for the next movie is... training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 That's a JJ-ism. He's the guy who had Captain Kirk go from Starfleet cadet to captain of the Enterprise in what seemed like a week, tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 The bolded word is important, because it's a movie and WHO CARES. Let me just check the numbers real quick... It turns out the answer is millions of people. I guess it's unrealistic to think that most people would at least know the basics of piloting an aircraft in a world where that's your only transportation more or less. Even the "cars" are fucking aircrafts! She goes from "You can do this. You can do this!" pumping herself up and "I've never flown in space before" to "Here is how you fix the hyperdrive!" in two scenes. That is just an example of her being super competent at things she shouldn't be super competent at. It's a non-issue really, but.... I really don't understand this argument and I think it's just something else for people that have to nitpick every single detail of a film like this to pieces because... reasons? Let's forget all the silly terms and boil this down a bit. What does Rey have left to *overcome? That's the issue. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wilson Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 I thought it was pretty clear she was using the force without knowing it, the same way that Anakin as a little child used the force without knowing it. The movie didn't beat you over the head with it but I thought that was the implication, she took something she had knowledge of (as a scavenger and mechanic she saw and understood a lot of different ship types) and then the force nudged her from there. Doesn't seem like something to get worked up about, especially if it turns out she was trained as a child and just doesn't remember, her story is far from being told yet. With the training, I figure the point of training even with those 'strong' in the Force is controlling it. Some things she did on purpose, other things were on accident. Luke didn't train with Yoda for long before he was good to go, I don't think she will be with Luke for five years or something. We can assume in the decades that have passed that Luke has picked up a few tricks he can show her. She just needs some training on channeling it and she'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipGofern Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Rey pretty much skips Luke's arc in IV and V straight to Green Lightsaber Luke. Which is fine on its own, but when you are setting up Luke in the teacher role..... well you see the problem. She's already shown more Jedi shit than Luke did in two movies. With no training. And the set up for the next movie is... training. Actually Luke basically did that too. In ANH he could barely deflect a training orb, he trained with Yoda for what...a few days? A week, tops and was able to give Vader a decent fight. Then in Jedi he's suddenly a black cloak wearing green saber wielding badass Jedi Knight when in the dialogue we learn he's never been back to see Yoda after leaving to rescue the gang in Cloud City. So, yeah, I think certain people just pick it up super fast and need no to minimal training. (Which explains her Force skills - the Saber fighting I figured Rey kicked ass with her stick thingy so using a sword was just an extension). Luke has plenty of arc besides training Rey. His nephew/pupil just killed his best friend plus his sister needs his help plus some Voordemort looking dude is trying to hunt him down. He has plenty on his plate besides training his niece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 http://www.imdb.com/name/nm5114966/ So I assume the above actress, Maisie Richardson-Sellers was the lady we get a close-up on in the Hosnian system right before Starkiller base blows it up. Apparently her character was a senator in the New Republic and a friend of General Organa. As for Rey, we don't call Goten and Trunks Gary Stus because they could turn Super Saiyan at ages 6 and 7, amirite? Hypothetically, let's say Rey is of the Skywalker lineage, then maybe it makes sense for her to be super Force jacked at a young age. Just like Goten and Trunks are super saiyan jacked at a young age. Why? They were conceived and born when their dads were super jacked and powerful. Even though when their dads were the same age, they had a fraction of the same power. And they worked hard for years to have that power. OK, it's crazy fiction. Maybe the whole midi-chlorian thing makes sense now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Too bad there wasn't a training montage to make everyone happy 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 There really wasn't a new John Williams track on the level of Duel of the Fates. That was strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 The only Mary Sue in TFA is Poe Dameron 1. He's "the best pilot in the fleet" 2. Everyone he meets immediately loves him 2a. He quips at the main villain, showing no fear, while the guy holds a blaster bolt and himself in stasis 3. He survives Force torture longer than anyone 4. He immediately knows how to fly a TIE fighter PERFECTLY 5. He's coupled with the new "It" character BB-8 6. HE NAMES A MAIN FUCKING CHARACTER 7. His supposed death sets the entire movie into action 8. Despite dying earlier he appears magically in the finale to save the day Rey, on the other hand, knows how to "fix" the hyperdrive because she's had to scavenge parts off fallen Imperial vehicles to get food so she can live. She likely picked up mechanical knowledge during the 18-20 years she's been doing it. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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