(BP) Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 All of this reinforces that they need to remake No Holds Barred with Cena. "Why don't you ask me about my charity work?!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew POE! Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 I'm not cynically in the least about John Cena using a kid beating cancer as a prop in his promo; where my problem is the WWE using that to make sure John Cena stay over on Kevin Owens. Owens' promo is heart-breaking because he's basically acknowledging that Vince McMahon will always have his favorites. I had a lot of empathy for Owens because I've been there -- I've been laid off so many times, I've lost count. I haven't been where I wanted to be career-wise for a long time and there's nothing more babyface than what Kevin Owens has gone through. Obviously John Cena never had to go through something as drastic as that or what Adam Rose is going through (who really should rip into John Cena off-script the next time he's on TV). Owens' body language during the promo was "fuck you, you don't know me" but he can't just come out and say that. Not to mention Cena's problems with Alex Riley and Dolph Ziggler, both of whom could very well be the WWE's 'next big thing' and Cena cuts shoot-ish comments in his promos against them too. The Rock really ripped into Cena on his Twitter account (probably because Vince and Cena wouldn't have approved it) as well. As long as Vince McMahon has John Cena there, there will never be anyone to take over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Dave Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 What'd he say about Ziggler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Not to mention Cena's problems with Alex Riley and Dolph Ziggler, both of whom could very well be the WWE's 'next big thing' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Exactly right. On one side you have Owens who was out there making a lot of points.. maybe some valid.. some not and WWE and John Cena himself say "you have the right to cheer for whoever you want" but then Cena cuts his promo intertwining his work with Make-A-Wish and it removes that ability to cheer for who you want. You're not going to cheer against a guy who is working with Make-A-Wish kids, right? But Cena's work is all we hear. They would in Philly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mco543 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Christ, Alex Riley and Dolph Ziggler wouldn't even be the next big things in TNA much less WWE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Lord of Light, I'm a Ziggler fan, And he's pretty much hit his ceiling. There's no Next Big Thing for him. And as far as Riley, his overness ends soon as his music fades out and he has to work a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Angel Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 The Cena promo, and Cena himself, is a mixed bag. The kid's year was probably made by that moment. The kid deserved that moment of happiness. But the problem lies in Cena being so blantantly public about it. The problem is that, on some level, Cena sees himself in the Make-a-Wish children. Cena may have struggles in life, but they're not comparable to being deathly ill. And why promote his charitable works so loudly? I'm all for letting people know how they can get involved in good works. But something about Cena's part--on this specific stage--felt overly staged. I don't doubt Cena's sincerity with Make-a-Wish. I think he's a decent guy and means well. But he also plays the company man role. It becomes hard to decipher what's true life and what's corporate. What he shouldn't do is use his time with sick children and military personnel as a shield to deflect a personal argument. Because what he's doing is making sure you can't deliver a comeback without looking like a total dick, seemingly going against something that you wouldn't possibly oppose. John Cena wins. No LOL. The psychology of Owens' promo is spectacular. He traveled around the world to pursue his dream and provide what he feels is a good life for his family. But in doing so, he lost bonding time with his son and now the boy sees another man as his hero. Owens won the battle, but is losing the war--literally in his own home. He doesn't blame his son. He doesn't even really blame Cena. He blames himself for not being there, even if he had a good reason for not being there. He wants to be his son's hero. All Kevin Owens wants is his hard work appreciated. That cut deep. Cena is a multi-millionaire driving a dozen sports cars, living in a luxury home, and in a long-term relationship with a hot fitness model. His life is charmed, and has been for a long time. He has worked hard and deserves his riches. But he shouldn't get to tell the guy who just clawed his way to the big show what he is and isn't on a personal level. According to Cena, it's Owens' own fault for being a whiner who finds negativity in almost everything. He's largely right. But when a man has already questioned his own sense of fatherhood--something that you know nothing about--find another means to get your point across. And forget Owens for a minute: what about bringing up Adam Rose--who actually raises a seriously ill child? That's some mean shit to throw at someone who can't risk coming back at you. In his own way, last night was another moment of Cena reminding us what professional wrestling is all about--an escape from our normal lives, to yell and cheer and go WTF to characters on our TV. We shouldn't take it seriously--not when we've got children battling cancer. But, damn. He goes about reminding us of that in the most cringeworthy way possible. Goddamn. That was deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 What he shouldn't do is use his time with sick children and military personnel as a shield to deflect a personal argument. Because what he's doing is making sure you can't deliver a comeback without looking like a total dick, seemingly going against something that you wouldn't possibly oppose. Of course you can deliver a comeback - that he's using those kids and military men and women in a totally phony way, that because he spends pointing out how great a guy he is and everything he does, we should all question whether he does those things honestly or because he loves the plaudits from people. In fact, the reaction that this promo is getting from some people here illustrates that they see Cena as the dick here anyway, so someone pointing that out would be someone they could support. The problem with that is you can easily tread into forever heat with that argument. As in, go away/we hate you forever. It's a mindfield, and Cena knows that. He leads the promo to a place where probably less than five people associated with WWE could counterpoint it quickly without going off the deep end. I can't speak for anyone else. but I don't go into automatic "Cena is a jerk" mode. But this particular promo hit some sour notes for me. You know, it's interesting. I see your point, but half that crowd is cynical as fuck and would cheer right along with the person who said it. It would take skill not to get lost making that rebuttal, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJ Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 What's so great about Owens is he's 75% sympathetic/ 25% despicable. You'll fall under his spell. He has a great story. The guy makes a lot of good points. It's so easy to see things from his perspective. Then you remember how we got to here. The whole reason Owens/Cena are feuding is because Owens was jealous Cena was taking credit for injuring Zayn. How could you possibly cheer for that? What I'm enjoying about the feud is there is none of the "I'm the "real" wrestler crap" which existed in the feuds with Bryan/Punk. Owens just comes across as someone who had the talent but not the look and clawed his way to the big stage but his chip is too big. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew POE! Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 What'd he say about Ziggler? That he's been there for 10 years and was a cheerleader when Cena started and still isn't over. Alex Riley wasn't/isn't a good example (quick name a great Alex Riley match? I can't either) but Cena had a personal beef with him that showed up on TV. If it was anyone else that did what John Cena did, that person would be jobbing hard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turk128 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 The psychology of Owens' promo is spectacular. He traveled around the world to pursue his dream and provide what he feels is a good life for his family. But in doing so, he lost bonding time with his son and now the boy sees another man as his hero. Owens won the battle, but is losing the war--literally in his own home. He doesn't blame his son. He doesn't even really blame Cena. He blames himself for not being there, even if he had a good reason for not being there. He wants to be his son's hero. All Kevin Owens wants is his hard work appreciated. That cut deep. Cena is a multi-millionaire driving a dozen sports cars, living in a luxury home, and in a long-term relationship with a hot fitness model. His life is charmed, and has been for a long time. He has worked hard and deserves his riches. But he shouldn't get to tell the guy who just clawed his way to the big show what he is and isn't on a personal level. According to Cena, it's Owens' own fault for being a whiner who finds negativity in almost everything. He's largely right. But when a man has already questioned his own sense of fatherhood--something that you know nothing about--find another means to get your point across. This narrative would be spot on if not for the fact that Owens' brought up the excuse that in the end it really wasn't his fault that his kid drank the Kool-Aid, it was the corporate machine. It also overlooks Cena not being born with a silver spoon, nor was he given the keys to the kingdom... something something Cena's catchphrase. There was a very similar discussion on the NXT thread, where people argued that Owen was essentially a face by ignoring the way he went about accomplishing his goals. Owens is the best type of heel, the type that truly believes what he does is right despite his actions being anything but right. I'm still amazed how underrated Cena's promo skills still are: he can turn any angle into a simple black and white issue, drawing the line in the sand and forcing the audience to either support or oppose, not sit around and just observe. It's not just cheap pops either because plenty of people use that but those never sustain, Cena weaves in IRL and shoot, melding it into a very believable package (that also has the caveat of being PG). In the end, I'm glad Cena is forcing the issue with Owens, I'm glad Owens is being setup as a true heel. The last thing I want is a face Owens because a face Owens is a faceless Owens in the crowd of meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Cena's granddad went to Harvard, played for the Red Sox and was an Ivy League baseball coach. He was also born in an upper class Boston suburb. Cena was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turk128 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Cena's granddad went to Harvard, played for the Red Sox and was an Ivy League baseball coach. He was also born in an upper class Boston suburb. Cena was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. Point taken but I also remember him starting out in UPW (thanks Inside Pro Wrestling School)... not sure how that silver spoon translated into him getting a free pass into WWF (like Rock for instance). Actually, I'm curious, has there ever been a well off person who willingly became a pro wrestler (who wasn't born into the business)? EDIT: Wait a sec, Cena worked as a driver for a limousine company before joining UPW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fresh Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 David Otunga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Whats the cut off line for being well off? Suburban rich kids that went to college and then became wrestler? Like Colt, for example. Or higher up the 1% food chain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Cena promos are automatic FFWD for me, so I'll leave the analysis to others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Wasn't Paul Heyman's dad a New York lawyer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Cena promos are automatic FFWD for me, so I'll leave the analysis to others. You missed the best promo segment, non-Heyman division, of the year to date then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Owens is the perfect representation for most of the people that hate Cena's guts. I think they could turn this into one of the best feuds we've seen in a long time if they don't rush through it. The fact that they had a match as good as they did on the first try, and add to that the fact it was Owens' first match on the main roster bodes really well for future matches. Their characters are just matched up perfectly to feud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLaw Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I can see Owens being the next Cena, corporate champ, tie-ins, Make-a-wish, all of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Owens will be more like Punk, but with a far better attitude(and much more likeable baby face promos). Then we'll have Sami as the new Bryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turk128 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Whats the cut off line for being well off? Suburban rich kids that went to college and then became wrestler? Like Colt, for example. Or higher up the 1% food chain? Yeah, I wouldn't call Colt born with a silver spoon and he basically had the same advantages as Cena. I guess it's not if you were born in a rich family but just how much support your receive from that family when you go out on your own in the world. I guess my concept of well off would be a trust fund baby? I mean, it doesn't matter how rich your family is, if they ain't footing your bills, it's meaningless (I knew peeps who had this same 'advantage'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Flair's father was well to do ob/gyn in Minnesota, iirc, but was also extremely frugal. (Amateur shrinks say this is why Flair is the opposite with his money. I wouldnt think anyone will found the bill until the modern era (95-), given the stigma surrounding the business. Maybe the right answer is really Dixie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turk128 Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Maybe the right answer is really Dixie. You may have found the perfect example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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