AlfredoE Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Hechicero's way better than the other guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 If I vote honestly and not just for favorites, I think I would vote for Hechicero over everyone but like 5 dudes. Zayn is fun to watch, but I watch him and enjoy him when he is on a show I'm already watching. I have actively sought out matches with Hechicero this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Schneider Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Hechicero had an awesome Black Terry Jr. taped run too. The Black Terry series was especially great here is my review of their best match 11. Rey Hechicero v. Black Terry Chilanga Mask 10/26PAS: Total dream match which totally delivers. Hechicero has been having the best year match quality wise of anyone in wrestling, while Terry has been a little AWOL when it comes to great stuff available to watch. So happy our man Black Terry Jr. had his video camera ready to capture this match. We start out with some really great chain wrestling. Terry has been mostly a brawler in his late career resurgence, but he can still really rip it up maestro style on the mat, and when he gets a chance he seems right on the level of guys like Panther, Solar and Navarro. Hechicero is definitely the younger guy (respectively, he has been wrestling since 2001) in lucha most comfortable working a long mat section and he does some very cool stuff, including some nasty rolling leglocks. I also liked how the mat work was more intense and violent then a lot of maestro mat work, this was less of a showcase of technique then a matwork fight. When the match broke down into an actual fight it was awesome. I loved the finish with them brawling into the crowd and Hechicero taking a nasty little bump into folding chairs, they both get their legs stuck and just wail on each other Necro Butcher bar fight style. This was when you really appreciate BTJr.'s cinematography as we are really close up as both guys unload potato shots on each other. So much fun and right up there with the best things anywhere this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I've probably watched more lucha this year than any year previous and have found that I (for the most part) hate it so I probably am not the person to champion Zayn in this thread. But if Zayn is the "most overrated wrestler in history" I must have brain cancer. That rare type that makes me think he's a guy popping out story-driven epic encounters almost once a month while being a pure as driven snow white meat babyface in this cynical as shit garbage age of wrestling. Come on, "I just happened upon Sami Zayn matches during shows I watch, I didn't look for them?" Oh did you happen to wander into Jerry Lawler matches while watching Memphis wrestling too? Sami main events those shows for Mike's sake. He shouldn't be sneaking up on you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamp, broken circa 1988 Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 "he's booked really well" doesn't surpass "one of the best rudo wrestlers today" for me, or for other people for that matter. Hechicero was a goddamn revelation for me. My first time seeing him was during En Busca, and he just won me over immediately. Incredible mat wrestler, fantastic base, good stooge and good brawler... I could watch Hechicero wrestle anyone. I could watch Hechicero wrestle Guerrero Maya probably forever. Then they repackaged Hooligan with him as Hombre Sin Nombre and my heart grew three sizes. Sami Zayn is fine. I liked all his big matches. But like there's no incentive to watch a normal low-stakes Sami Zayn match like there is to watch Hechicero just fuck around in six man tags. He's always got something in store, even if the match is a throwaway. i mean for fuck's sake, Rey Hechicero basically means Wizard King. also for the sake of fuck, Hechicero's entrance theme. I know he's not gonna win, but if you are sleeping on Hechicero you are missing something special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanWaco Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Zayn had ten to twelve "story driven epic encounters" in the voting period? Really? I will buy that description for the Cesaro match, Neville and Owens matches. I'd even concede it for the sake of argument for the four-way and the Breeze match, even if I think that "epic" is a massively generous label for either of those matches. But where are the other five to seven matches of that ilk? I mean...I enjoyed the Kidd stuff but "story driven epic encounter?" I don't want to hear anybody complaining about the D-Show contributions of Titus O'Neil, if Samuel Zayn is getting that kind of NXT original(!) affirmative action bump. I get that NXT is easily the best thing about modern WWE, but reading some people talk about Zayn, is like reading Meltzer on Tanahashi, with the caveat that Zayn is at least a very good wrestler. Edit: Note that the Cesaro match is outside the voting period, so looks like Screech needs six to eight more matches of that ilk to fit the standard alleged by his booster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 "he's booked really well" doesn't surpass "one of the best rudo wrestlers today" for me, or for other people for that matter. Sami Zayn is fine. I liked all his big matches. But like there's no incentive to watch a normal low-stakes Sami Zayn match like there is to watch Hechicero just fuck around in six man tags. He's always got something in store, even if the match is a throwaway. i mean for fuck's sake, Rey Hechicero basically means Wizard King. * I edited out stuff for the sake of reducing scroll bomb not to reduce your argument. I'm going out of my way not to shit on your guy here but reducing Sami to "booked really well" is such hockey you should start booking your flight to the next Winter Classic. The very idea that Sami had good matches or had a good period because of booking is so pants-on-head ridiculous that you can make that argument about anyone ever. Ric Flair? Totally only good because of booking. Totally. See how silly that sounds? Because it's silly! I don't give a rat's fart about what his name means in Spanish. Honest injun, could not possibly care less. Zayn had ten to twelve "story driven epic encounters" in the voting period? Really? I will buy that description for the Cesaro match, Neville and Owens matches. I'd even concede it for the sake of argument for the four-way and the Breeze match, even if I think that "epic" is a massively generous label for either of those matches. But where are the other five to seven matches of that ilk? I mean...I enjoyed the Kidd stuff but "story driven epic encounter?" I don't want to hear anybody complaining about the D-Show contributions of Titus O'Neil, if Samuel Zayn is getting that kind of NXT original(!) affirmative action bump. I get that NXT is easily the best thing about modern WWE, but reading some people talk about Zayn, is like reading Meltzer on Tanahashi, with the caveat that Zayn is at least a very good wrestler. Screech? Really? You're going with Screech? Okay. Even by your admission, you are 'giving' Zayn 3 in the last 3 months. That's a pretty good rate if that's all he had. But it ignores the prior Neville matches and any of the matches with Graves, Titus O'Neil, Tyson Kidd, Bo Dallas and Leo Krueger. All of which included story in some capacity beyond what you will see typically. Now you might not go so far as to call them epic, and that's fine. But let us not call them nothing like Zayn just figured out how to do what he does because you're upset that people like a wrestler more than your guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 As someone who appreciates Hechicero as much as I can while not being really into Lucha outside of violent one-on-one brawls, and as someone who really prefers work contextualized by a narrative that makes me care more about the character in the ring, I don't think I'm much different from what a number of DVDVR regulars are like. I read Pro Wrestling Only occasionally, and those guys are very mechanic-based in their criticisms as a broad stroke. I love reading their match reviews and such because they illuminate the mechanics of wrestling in a way that I often don't think about. However, here at DVDVR, I feel like many (most?) posters have a less cerebral approach in many ways. A lot of the Daniel Bryan love here is in no small part because of the journey of the character (and by extension, the person) to try and claw to the top of the company. There was a story AND a meta-story, both of which were incredibly compelling, and those stories gave Bryan's in-ring work an incredible urgency that just isn't there for me if I'm watching individual matches in individual promotions from a guy, or if I can't understand or follow the narrative due to a language barrier or being unable to find the shows in order to watch them. Same with Zayn. His whole character arc has been "not good enough, but too pure to want to take shortcuts, just wants to get better and better and someday achieve his dream." He's like the Leslie Knope of wrestling. I think that many posters here are drawn to that. They WANT that character to succeed, and that drives their opinion of his work as much as his actual work does. This is really reductive, of course, and not meant to indicate that PWO posters don't care about narrative. However, I do notice that there is that difference. I wouldn't be shocked if Hechicero were winning this poll were it over on PWO, where narrative is less of a driver for ranking guys. My apologies if I've offended some of the PWO regulars posting here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Not offended but I think you should have used the exact phrase "execution of a consistent isolated internal narrative" in your post. It rolls off the tongue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Hechicero is going to be the victim of stylistic preference. I like him, I can tell he's a great at what he does, but as somebody who's tried and struggled to get into lucha I just prefer watching Sami. Can't be helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 I wanna revisit Smelly calling me dumb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I wanna revisit Smelly calling me dumb I did that and am somehow still able to post? I don't remember this at all, which almost certainly means that I was black-out drunk when I did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanWaco Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 "he's booked really well" doesn't surpass "one of the best rudo wrestlers today" for me, or for other people for that matter. Sami Zayn is fine. I liked all his big matches. But like there's no incentive to watch a normal low-stakes Sami Zayn match like there is to watch Hechicero just fuck around in six man tags. He's always got something in store, even if the match is a throwaway. i mean for fuck's sake, Rey Hechicero basically means Wizard King. * I edited out stuff for the sake of reducing scroll bomb not to reduce your argument. I'm going out of my way not to shit on your guy here but reducing Sami to "booked really well" is such hockey you should start booking your flight to the next Winter Classic. The very idea that Sami had good matches or had a good period because of booking is so pants-on-head ridiculous that you can make that argument about anyone ever. Ric Flair? Totally only good because of booking. Totally. See how silly that sounds? Because it's silly! I don't give a rat's fart about what his name means in Spanish. Honest injun, could not possibly care less. Zayn had ten to twelve "story driven epic encounters" in the voting period? Really? I will buy that description for the Cesaro match, Neville and Owens matches. I'd even concede it for the sake of argument for the four-way and the Breeze match, even if I think that "epic" is a massively generous label for either of those matches. But where are the other five to seven matches of that ilk? I mean...I enjoyed the Kidd stuff but "story driven epic encounter?" I don't want to hear anybody complaining about the D-Show contributions of Titus O'Neil, if Samuel Zayn is getting that kind of NXT original(!) affirmative action bump. I get that NXT is easily the best thing about modern WWE, but reading some people talk about Zayn, is like reading Meltzer on Tanahashi, with the caveat that Zayn is at least a very good wrestler. Screech? Really? You're going with Screech? Okay. Even by your admission, you are 'giving' Zayn 3 in the last 3 months. That's a pretty good rate if that's all he had. But it ignores the prior Neville matches and any of the matches with Graves, Titus O'Neil, Tyson Kidd, Bo Dallas and Leo Krueger. All of which included story in some capacity beyond what you will see typically. Now you might not go so far as to call them epic, and that's fine. But let us not call them nothing like Zayn just figured out how to do what he does because you're upset that people like a wrestler more than your guy. I'm not upset at all, but let's leave the world of fantasy. My guess is that most people voting watched little if any Hechicero, especially relative to what they saw of Zayn. Even those who did likely have no connection to him as many of them do to Zayn through his previous work as Generico, and through the episodic booking and great presentation of his character on NXT. There will always be a bias toward native language promotions, which I fully understand and have no problem with either. Am I saying it is impossible to have watched the full 2014 runs of both men and concluded Zayn was better? No. Just pointing out the obvious, which is that the vast majority of voters almost assuredly watched a much higher percentage of Zayn's run than Hechicero's, and on top of that many who may see them as equals when it comes to work, may be giving the nod to Zayn due to presentation (again, I have no problem with this). My biggest criticism of Zayn, is less a criticism of him, than it is a criticism of people making claims like you have made in this thread - claims which effectively conceded you can't and won't defend. As I said before Zayn is a very good wrestler, probably even great at this point. But the idea that he's coming off of an other worldly year, or had a dozen "epic" matches, is something I can't wrap my head around at all. And I love NXT, think Zayn is better now than he's ever been, and enjoyed his entire run last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 To be honest it would have taken a miracle for me to vote against Sami Zayn here, but I did give Hechicero a shot. It is going me to take a lot for me to vote for a luchador based purely on the fact that I really don't understand how lucha matches are put together. They just don't flow to me. The style just doesn't grab me. I hope that one day I can get into the style, because these guys are obviously talented, but Sami has been the best wrestler I've watched week to week for the entire voting period. Sami gets the vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I've stayed true to my word. I do not have enough time tonight to do the guy justice so it looks like I won't be voting on this one but I will be watching some HECHICERO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail Sabin Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 With the year he has had Zayn's got a good chance to get to the Final Four if not win the whole thing. Hell Bayley will probably get a good rub off of him in the Woman's bracket because she is NXT's female Zayn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanWaco Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I didn't do a pick em' but without being around here for a while, I would guess that Zayn, Nakamura, and Rusev would be among the favorites in a bizarro, weird year, with no clear winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecubsfan Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 There is nothing at all that can convince me to vote against Zayn. I will check Hechicero later, but unless he turned water into wine, he wasn't getting my vote. water into wine no (so far) but he does appear to have magical fire powers 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I'm watching Hechicero for the first time and he's fucking great. I thought some of the praise in this thread was going over the top as I started watching but he really is a total package (*chicken dance*) for a luchador. The only thing I've been noticing, and this is probably more to do with the style than the particular wrestler, is some of the transitions can be heck of awkward, sudden and border on no selling. For instance, in the Cavernario match, ol' cave man hits a disgusting splash from the top to the outside and it looked like he ended Hechicero (dude's head bounced off the floor like a basketball in taking that). Yet, within a minute of getting back in the ring, Hechicero simply outpowers Cavernario and goes back on the attack like the splash didn't just happen. It's not the only transition issue I've seen with him but it was the most egregious. And holy shit, his robe is the best entrance gear. (Still going to vote Zayn, though. Sorry guys. His execution of an admittedly superbly booked storyline made me feel like a kid again. His handful of excellent matches are the WWE style perfected, in my opinion.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Sami Zayn is one of the most overrated wrestlers going today. He's totally formulaic to the point where he feels like a fire pro wrestling sprite come to life. Hechicero is a guy who rip it up on the mat, he can brawl, he break out cool spots if he wants. He's the epitome of what a good worker should aspire to be. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 There's no shame in losing to the guy who's probably going to win this whole thing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I cannot stand Zayn and think he is the most overrated wrestler today. I think he wins this entire thing but I'll be voting against every round. Having said that I think he's probably trending toward becoming the most overrated wrestler in history at this point. The hyperbole surrounding him is so extreme that I almost wish I could shut off all discussion about him entirely and watch his matches independent of the rhetoric, as the absurd praise usually results in me rolling my eyes Amen 100% 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 So, the one guy that loves everything hates Sami Zayn. March Madness. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 You know the Gulak thread made me love this tournament and this and the Neville thread have reminded me why I'm always glad when it's over. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Not shocked that DreamBroken feels that way because he and I feel pretty much the exact opposite about almost everything when it comes to wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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