Wrestling What Ifs

[Skeeball Wizard]

Speaking of the Kliq, years before Montreal happened Bret was invited to join but declined the offer. What if he accepted?

He eventually drops out because Shawn was always going to protect his closest friends (HHH, Nash and Hall) first. The Harts were always going to be 2nd fiddle.

I wonder if it would have played out that way. From what I've heard, Hart and Michaels were pretty close before Nash, Hall etc joined up. Makes me wonder if they would've been closer friends than Michaels ended up being with the Clique. I feel like one would've been ousted eventually, so what if Hart ended up being the one in the Clique w Nash, Hall, Kid and HHH. They always said what kept them together was live of the business, and Hart was all about that.

[The Nature Boy]

 

 

Speaking of the Kliq, years before Montreal happened Bret was invited to join but declined the offer. What if he accepted?

He eventually drops out because Shawn was always going to protect his closest friends (HHH, Nash and Hall) first. The Harts were always going to be 2nd fiddle.

I wonder if it would have played out that way. From what I've heard, Hart and Michaels were pretty close before Nash, Hall etc joined up. Makes me wonder if they would've been closer friends than Michaels ended up being with the Clique. I feel like one would've been ousted eventually, so what if Hart ended up being the one in the Clique w Nash, Hall, Kid and HHH. They always said what kept them together was live of the business, and Hart was all about that.

 

 

From reading Bret's book, I get the feeling that Bret and Shawn's egos would've eventually clashed. Shawn seems to have the same personality type as Nash and Hall at least. Bret takes wrestling way more seriously than those other guys did. I can't see Mr. "WRESTLING IS EVERYTHING" being best friends with someone like Nash who openly admits that he was in it to make money.  I can see Triple H and Bret becoming close in some alternate reality because they seem to view wrestling through a similar lense. Bret and Nash? No way. Bret and Hall? Probably not. 

 

At best, we get a split where Triple H goes with Bret but Hall and Nash stay with Shawn. 

[HumanChessgame]

I agree with Nature Boy's assessment but can think of a few other scenarios as well-

 

At that time HHH wasn't much of a name and he realizes that if he goes over there with Shawn he'll likely get lost in the shuffle, friends with the others who are running the show or not.  He decides to stick around with the thought that he has a bigger chance of becoming a bigger fish in a smaller pond and plays his cards right around the office to play ball how they want.  In that situation DX probably still happens (IIRC the NAO were still doing their schtick independent of DX by that time anyways) but are a bit toned.  Maybe they even have a different fourth guy in before Waltman comes back.  HHH would probably get moved up the card a bit faster and likely had some feuds with Bret and Austin.  Providing Shawn stays healthy, he probably comes back after WCW folds, HHH likely re-forms DX or some other stable around that time and brings Shawn in as a member, but Shawn doesn't have as prominent a place on the card.  He and HHH probably end up feuding over the world title with one of those matches resulting in Shawn's retirement at Mania.

[The Nature Boy]

I agree with Nature Boy's assessment but can think of a few other scenarios as well-

 

At that time HHH wasn't much of a name and he realizes that if he goes over there with Shawn he'll likely get lost in the shuffle, friends with the others who are running the show or not.  He decides to stick around with the thought that he has a bigger chance of becoming a bigger fish in a smaller pond and plays his cards right around the office to play ball how they want.  In that situation DX probably still happens (IIRC the NAO were still doing their schtick independent of DX by that time anyways) but are a bit toned.  Maybe they even have a different fourth guy in before Waltman comes back.  HHH would probably get moved up the card a bit faster and likely had some feuds with Bret and Austin.  Providing Shawn stays healthy, he probably comes back after WCW folds, HHH likely re-forms DX or some other stable around that time and brings Shawn in as a member, but Shawn doesn't have as prominent a place on the card.  He and HHH probably end up feuding over the world title with one of those matches resulting in Shawn's retirement at Mania.

 

I think that if HHH stays, he ends up as the Owen Hart in our scenario. Not in the sense that he dies, but in the sense that he hangs around the upper midcard and gets shuffled into different teams and stables. No way he ever sniffs the World Title after the 1-2 punch of the Curtain Call and being friends with Shawn. He's probably midcard for life at that point.

[kafkonia]

These worlds all sound so much better.

[Kuetsar]

As long as we can have Owen not break Austin's neck as well, WWE style never gets invented. . . .

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

I imagine Shawn leaves, but Vince won't grant Triple H his release. 

HHH ends up in sort of Owen's role - a brief unsuccessful run as a face against the Harts, before joining the NOD, and then becoming the Real Man's Man, Hunter Hearst Helmsley.

[Spritenaut 32]

I imagine Shawn leaves, but Vince won't grant Triple H his release. 

HHH ends up in sort of Owen's role - a brief unsuccessful run as a face against the Harts, before joining the NOD, and then becoming the Real Man's Man, Hunter Hearst Helmsley.

 

As long as Regal gives HHH the jean shorts and sleeveless flannel he wore when he (Regal) had the gimmick, everything will be fine.

[SorceressKnight]

The other thing to remember when considering HHH as the "Owen Hart" in the scenario and not being allowed to jump ship- during 1997-98 the bidding war was high for Triple H- and WWF won the bidding war by making HHH the first wrestler ever to have a guaranteed WWF World Title reign written into his contract. If Triple H did stay, he'd likely end up bigger than Owen Hart in the scenario- and right there you have a number of possibilities (either HHH becomes Owen...if they went the distance with him in 1997-98- or anywhere up to "they give HHH the spot against the Hart Foundation instead of Austin"- a move that'd be far worse for WWF as a whole.)

[Victator]

Bret got along with Nash and Hall, Shawn and HHH were the ones he hated.

[The Nature Boy]

The other thing to remember when considering HHH as the "Owen Hart" in the scenario and not being allowed to jump ship- during 1997-98 the bidding war was high for Triple H- and WWF won the bidding war by making HHH the first wrestler ever to have a guaranteed WWF World Title reign written into his contract. If Triple H did stay, he'd likely end up bigger than Owen Hart in the scenario- and right there you have a number of possibilities (either HHH becomes Owen...if they went the distance with him in 1997-98- or anywhere up to "they give HHH the spot against the Hart Foundation instead of Austin"- a move that'd be far worse for WWF as a whole.)

 

If this is the case then Triple H is almost certainly gone and off to WCW. 

[AxB]

When Bret went, they let Davey and Anvil go, but kept Owen (unless Owen didn't want to go). So, would the RAW after Survivor Series feature Bret Hart vs a midget dressed as Shawn Michaels, and HHH asking to be allowed to join the Hart Foundation (and then getting laid out and having WCW sprayed on his back at the end of the show?

 

Here's a fresh What If? What if, instead of firing Steve Austin over the phone, Bischoff signed him for another 2 years and put the US title on him?

[Brysynner]

Austin drops the title to Sting at Starrcade, toils in the mid-card, gets beat up by the Outsiders as his contract is ending and still ends up in ECW but now becomes ECW World Champion beating Terry Funk after Barely Legal and drops the title to Shane Douglas at Hardcore Heaven

 

Savio Vega ends up winning the KOTR in 1996, The Rock gets turned on by the Nation in late 1997 but still eliminates Faarooq at the Rumble to face off against Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania XIV. With HBK gone, Rock on top. Mr. McMahon's Corporate Champion ends up being Steve Austin. Austin and Rock brawl throughout the end of Summer into Survivor Series 1998, Austin wins after a recreation of the Montreal Screwjob. Basically Rock/Austin still feud but with roles reversed. Austin still goes bald (probably in a hair vs. hair match with Rock), but with Austin not getting injured at SummerSlam 1997 it allows for a more NWA-esque main event style in WWE instead of the modern brawling style we have today.

[cwoy2j]

Austin drops the title to Sting at Starrcade, toils in the mid-card, gets beat up by the Outsiders as his contract is ending and still ends up in ECW but now becomes ECW World Champion beating Terry Funk after Barely Legal and drops the title to Shane Douglas at Hardcore Heaven

 

Savio Vega ends up winning the KOTR in 1996, The Rock gets turned on by the Nation in late 1997 but still eliminates Faarooq at the Rumble to face off against Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania XIV. With HBK gone, Rock on top. Mr. McMahon's Corporate Champion ends up being Steve Austin. Austin and Rock brawl throughout the end of Summer into Survivor Series 1998, Austin wins after a recreation of the Montreal Screwjob. Basically Rock/Austin still feud but with roles reversed. Austin still goes bald (probably in a hair vs. hair match with Rock), but with Austin not getting injured at SummerSlam 1997 it allows for a more NWA-esque main event style in WWE instead of the modern brawling style we have today.

 

Austin gets hairplugs and keeps the Stunning Steve character until the end of his career.

[Petey]

My gut feeling is that the invasion/WWF vs WCW was always fated to be Vince McMahon's Victory Lap.  Especially with Sting/Goldberg/Flair/Hogan Hall and Nash having fuck you/stay home money and sitting that first year out (and much longer in Sting's case).  That made it all the easier to book them as The Washington Generals.  But WCW in WWF was always going to be that.

I do wonder that if Vince had been able to sign all the WCW big names, if he would have booked the angle differently. Perhaps he figured that since he wasn't gonna get WCW's biggest stars, he might as well just sit back and enjoy world domination.

[SorceressKnight]

 

My gut feeling is that the invasion/WWF vs WCW was always fated to be Vince McMahon's Victory Lap.  Especially with Sting/Goldberg/Flair/Hogan Hall and Nash having fuck you/stay home money and sitting that first year out (and much longer in Sting's case).  That made it all the easier to book them as The Washington Generals.  But WCW in WWF was always going to be that.

I do wonder that if Vince had been able to sign all the WCW big names, if he would have booked the angle differently. Perhaps he figured that since he wasn't gonna get WCW's biggest stars, he might as well just sit back and enjoy world domination.

 

 

Considering the most blatant napalming during the InVasion was DDP- who was also the biggest WCW name to jump ship? If Vince got the WCW big names, things probably would have gone even worse.

[Brian Fowler]

Page and Booker weren't notably smaller stars than Nash and Hall in 96.

[Brysynner]

My gut feeling is that the invasion/WWF vs WCW was always fated to be Vince McMahon's Victory Lap. Especially with Sting/Goldberg/Flair/Hogan Hall and Nash having fuck you/stay home money and sitting that first year out (and much longer in Sting's case). That made it all the easier to book them as The Washington Generals. But WCW in WWF was always going to be that.

I do wonder that if Vince had been able to sign all the WCW big names, if he would have booked the angle differently. Perhaps he figured that since he wasn't gonna get WCW's biggest stars, he might as well just sit back and enjoy world domination.

Considering the most blatant napalming during the InVasion was DDP- who was also the biggest WCW name to jump ship? If Vince got the WCW big names, things probably would have gone even worse.

Ya know I wonder how much of Hunter/Sting being about WWF vs. WCW was the fact that hunter was out for all of the Invasion angle and he never got to beat a WCW wrestler

[Nice Guy Eddie]

My gut feeling is that the invasion/WWF vs WCW was always fated to be Vince McMahon's Victory Lap. Especially with Sting/Goldberg/Flair/Hogan Hall and Nash having fuck you/stay home money and sitting that first year out (and much longer in Sting's case). That made it all the easier to book them as The Washington Generals. But WCW in WWF was always going to be that.

I do wonder that if Vince had been able to sign all the WCW big names, if he would have booked the angle differently. Perhaps he figured that since he wasn't gonna get WCW's biggest stars, he might as well just sit back and enjoy world domination.

Considering the most blatant napalming during the InVasion was DDP- who was also the biggest WCW name to jump ship? If Vince got the WCW big names, things probably would have gone even worse.

Ya know I wonder how much of Hunter/Sting being about WWF vs. WCW was the fact that hunter was out for all of the Invasion angle and he never got to beat a WCW wrestler

Which leads to one of the all time "What If" scenarios - What if HHH (and Benoit) were healthy during the invasion?

Add what if Eddy hadn't been fired and was around for the invasion.

[Brian Fowler]

We got better matches of WWF destroying the Alliance?

[muhammedboehm]

What if Paul E was better with money and ECW name couldn't be used in the invasion?

[The Nature Boy]

I think I've mentioned this here before but it's a shame that TNN didn't give WWF a Saturday Night WCW show. If Triple H were healthy, a heel HHH as WCW World Champion would've been a lot of fun. 

 

HHH vs. DDP and HHH vs. Booker T would've been fun main event feuds. 

[SorceressKnight]

 

 

 

My gut feeling is that the invasion/WWF vs WCW was always fated to be Vince McMahon's Victory Lap. Especially with Sting/Goldberg/Flair/Hogan Hall and Nash having fuck you/stay home money and sitting that first year out (and much longer in Sting's case). That made it all the easier to book them as The Washington Generals. But WCW in WWF was always going to be that.

I do wonder that if Vince had been able to sign all the WCW big names, if he would have booked the angle differently. Perhaps he figured that since he wasn't gonna get WCW's biggest stars, he might as well just sit back and enjoy world domination.

Considering the most blatant napalming during the InVasion was DDP- who was also the biggest WCW name to jump ship? If Vince got the WCW big names, things probably would have gone even worse.

Ya know I wonder how much of Hunter/Sting being about WWF vs. WCW was the fact that hunter was out for all of the Invasion angle and he never got to beat a WCW wrestler

 

 

Considering most of HHH's "Reign of Terror" had him systematically destroy top WCW names above all else, that seems inconsequential. (It also leads to another question of getting an answer for the "What if HHH was healthy for the InVasion?" question now- considering how WWE sends every name to NXT and are getting stars slowly but surely, there still seems to be that hope of "Triple H buys out TNA from Dixie Carter and is able to get his end game in NXT, getting to book the InVasion the way HE would have done things with TNA vs. NXT".

[Brysynner]

The only problem with TNA vs. NXT is that most of NXT are bigger stars than anyone in TNA. Assuming James Storm is done, the only names for TNA are Bobby Roode, Lashley and Kurt Angle. (I'd assume most of the NXT audience would not know who EC3 is) I'd assume Lashley wouldn't come over so you'd just have Baron Corbin and Tyler Breeze beating up on Roode and Angle. Roode in NXT would be a lot of fun though so yeah it would be better than the WWF vs. WCW angle

[SorceressKnight]

The only problem with TNA vs. NXT is that most of NXT are bigger stars than anyone in TNA. Assuming James Storm is done, the only names for TNA are Bobby Roode, Lashley and Kurt Angle. (I'd assume most of the NXT audience would not know who EC3 is) I'd assume Lashley wouldn't come over so you'd just have Baron Corbin and Tyler Breeze beating up on Roode and Angle. Roode in NXT would be a lot of fun though so yeah it would be better than the WWF vs. WCW angle

 

Even then, there's still a few other options- WWF did bring over a few people, like Torrie Wilson, who's contracts expired with WCW shortly before the purchase and were out of the mix- so there could be some of the people leaving. 

 

Due to WWE experience, EC3 would be known by the NXT audience, which is one plus, but the bigger weakness would be that the WWE audience- especially the NXT viewers- would know him better as the goofy babyface Derrick Bateman instead of the serious heel EC3 (and even then, the fact NXT and TNA both tape in the Orlando area means in all likeliness there'd be more of a mixture than there normally would be of Full Sail/Impact Zone fans to make the crowd really work.) 

 

Even if they don't get a lot of the big stars, you'd still have even more of a case that way, since the WCW 24 and most of those big stars not getting buyouts led to InVasion's "WWE's stars against WCW's midcarders"  mentality- so it'd have a similar view for an NXT/TNA angle.