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JAN 2014 WRESTLING DISCUSSION REBOOT THREAD


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Oh God, Punk's offense is fine. It doesn't look any worse than 90% of the roster. Most of the moves he does are stuff the kids in the WWE universe have never seen before, no matter how sloppy he executes them. 

 

Agree to disagree here.

 

I always thought that Punk should have a more submission-based offense. It's odd that he would use the GTS because it's so hard to hit on a ton of guys, and his strikes look awful as well. He's the last guy that should have a strike-based offense centered around elbows, knees, and kicks.

 

I do think that his in-ring work would be easier to buy for me if he were instead a counter-wrestler that worked limbs, baited wrestlers by playing dead or other psychological tricks that the announcers could point out (and that would fit with his character as he's a guy who clearly wants to be the cleverest guy ever in his promos). 

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I wonder what the board reaction would have been like if Bryan had walked out instead of Punk?  I understand he is a little more universally liked than Punk, but I'd bet money on people still throwing around "he was never that good anyway."

 

This board has always been weird like that when it comes to wrestlers leaving the WWE.  Remember when Kurt left and everyone was all "he will be dead in 6 months!!!"? Weird.

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Oh God, Punk's offense is fine. It doesn't look any worse than 90% of the roster. Most of the moves he does are stuff the kids in the WWE universe have never seen before, no matter how sloppy he executes them. 

 

Agree to disagree here.

 

I always thought that Punk should have a more submission-based offense. It's odd that he would use the GTS because it's so hard to hit on a ton of guys, and his strikes look awful as well. He's the last guy that should have a strike-based offense centered around elbows, knees, and kicks.

 

I do think that his in-ring work would be easier to buy for me if he were instead a counter-wrestler that worked limbs, baited wrestlers by playing dead or other psychological tricks that the announcers could point out (and that would fit with his character as he's a guy who clearly wants to be the cleverest guy ever in his promos). 

 

 

The points about the GTS are valid, but he needed a "wow!" finishing move and clearly, it pops the crowd and they've been able to market the move itself pretty well.

 

I do agree the psychology of his in-ring offense really makes no sense, but it doesn't really have to in the WWE.

 

I think his strikes and stuff are fine. Agree it doesn't really make sense for him to be a "striker", but the way he executes it, although sloppy at times, is fine with me. I mean, it looks awful sometimes, but fuck he's no Rob Van Dam out there throwing obvious ghost punches. 

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Well, this brings up the larger question of whether we're confusing Vince's fetish for bodybuilder physiques with "looking athletic".

I've always hated the "look athletic" thing any way.  How does someone look athletic?  Either you can perform athletic feats or you can't, what you look like is fairly irrelevant.  Does Warren Sapp look athletic?  He is 300+ lbs, he's not that tall, and is kind of built like a bowling ball, but I'd be willing to bet he is a better athlete than everyone on WWE's roster. 

 

CM Punk isn't that athletic, but he doesn't really need to be.  Everyone complaining about Punk and his lack of athletic ability is kind of missing the point.  His entire character is basically the kid in school who got picked last, but he is tough and willing to do whatever it takes to win.  It wouldn't make any sense if he looked like John Cena with his shirt off, because no one who looks like John Cena with his shirt off would call himself CM Punk.  With all the shit people are talking about him, he is still consistently puts on really good matches.  Do you guys think that Mick Foley's elbow should have looked like Randy Savage's elbow?  They are different people, with different characters, and different skill sets, their should be differences in how these different guys look, act, and wrestle.  Whether or not they look athletic is about as spurious of an argument as you can make on whether a guy named CM Punk is a good wrestler.

 

 

I'm not saying that athletes cannot have different physiques.  There is a great photo array out there of professional athletes from different sports and how a professional shot putter looks different than a professional volleyball player.  Mark Henry is built the way he should be.  He works a power gimmick.  Mick Foley was built the way he should have been.  He worked a lunatic gimmick fell off tall stuff.  CM Punk works a 'best in the world' gimmick but doesn't look that way.  He doesn't execute offense well enough to pull that gimmick off.  He's Lance Storm working a technician gimmick when he just punches and throws drop kicks.

 

If you want to say he is this underdog character, I have yet to see him ever act like he was over matched going into a match with his attitude or promo work.  He is always, "I'm the best!"  He doesn't work underdog.  He works his offense in no matter the match up or context.

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I wonder what the board reaction would have been like if Bryan had walked out instead of Punk?  I understand he is a little more universally liked than Punk, but I'd bet money on people still throwing around "he was never that good anyway."

 

This board has always been weird like that when it comes to wrestlers leaving the WWE.  Remember when Kurt left and everyone was all "he will be dead in 6 months!!!"? Weird.

 

I think "Kurt will be dead in 6 months" was (and still is) kind of a running thought in the mind of pretty much every wrestling fan. Not a DVDVR exclusive.

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 John Cena is awkward in a lot of ways, but he's awesome at wrestling. 

Oh how far ye have fallen, "awesome".

 

 

No love for Cena as a wrestler? Aw. I really enjoy his stuff. 

 

He's at his best in garbage matches and against guys smaller than him where he can work a power-vs-speed type of match. 

 

On the other hand, Cena/Henry from MITB last year is maybe my favorite Cena match, and there he had everything going to make that match work: facial expressions, pacing, etc. 

 

I would call Cena "awesome," but maybe we're just working on different standards for that term.  :)

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Punk ran the Chicago marathon. He says it was after flying from Australia (who knows how work-ish that is but whatevs) and supposedly had a really great time, especially for his first marathon. Running a marathon is HARD, especially if you're doing things like flying all over the world to wrestle and not just focusing on training for a marathon. That's pretty friggin' athletic right there.

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I wonder what the board reaction would have been like if Bryan had walked out instead of Punk? I understand he is a little more universally liked than Punk, but I'd bet money on people still throwing around "he was never that good anyway."

This board has always been weird like that when it comes to wrestlers leaving the WWE. Remember when Kurt left and everyone was all "he will be dead in 6 months!!!"? Weird.

It would appear to be more "out of character" for bryan than punk. People might be more surpriaed and/or sympatheic.

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Oh God, Punk's offense is fine. It doesn't look any worse than 90% of the roster. Most of the moves he does are stuff the kids in the WWE universe have never seen before, no matter how sloppy he executes them. 

 

Agree to disagree here.

 

I always thought that Punk should have a more submission-based offense. It's odd that he would use the GTS because it's so hard to hit on a ton of guys, and his strikes look awful as well. He's the last guy that should have a strike-based offense centered around elbows, knees, and kicks.

 

I do think that his in-ring work would be easier to buy for me if he were instead a counter-wrestler that worked limbs, baited wrestlers by playing dead or other psychological tricks that the announcers could point out (and that would fit with his character as he's a guy who clearly wants to be the cleverest guy ever in his promos). 

 

 

The points about the GTS are valid, but he needed a "wow!" finishing move and clearly, it pops the crowd and they've been able to market the move itself pretty well.

 

I do agree the psychology of his in-ring offense really makes no sense, but it doesn't really have to in the WWE.

 

I think his strikes and stuff are fine. Agree it doesn't really make sense for him to be a "striker", but the way he executes it, although sloppy at times, is fine with me. I mean, it looks awful sometimes, but fuck he's no Rob Van Dam out there throwing obvious ghost punches. 

 

 

I think this is a fair counterpoint. Randy Orton, for example, has no real offensive strategy. He should build every match around hitting the RKO from wherever he can like DDP would do for the Diamond Cutter. Instead, he's doing awkward looking counters and moving at the same pace no matter what type of match he's supposed to be working - and this is the champ right now.

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Oh God, Punk's offense is fine. It doesn't look any worse than 90% of the roster. Most of the moves he does are stuff the kids in the WWE universe have never seen before, no matter how sloppy he executes them. 

 

Agree to disagree here.

 

I always thought that Punk should have a more submission-based offense. It's odd that he would use the GTS because it's so hard to hit on a ton of guys, and his strikes look awful as well. He's the last guy that should have a strike-based offense centered around elbows, knees, and kicks.

 

I do think that his in-ring work would be easier to buy for me if he were instead a counter-wrestler that worked limbs, baited wrestlers by playing dead or other psychological tricks that the announcers could point out (and that would fit with his character as he's a guy who clearly wants to be the cleverest guy ever in his promos). 

 

 

The points about the GTS are valid, but he needed a "wow!" finishing move and clearly, it pops the crowd and they've been able to market the move itself pretty well.

 

I do agree the psychology of his in-ring offense really makes no sense, but it doesn't really have to in the WWE.

 

I think his strikes and stuff are fine. Agree it doesn't really make sense for him to be a "striker", but the way he executes it, although sloppy at times, is fine with me. I mean, it looks awful sometimes, but fuck he's no Rob Van Dam out there throwing obvious ghost punches. 

 

 

I think this is a fair counterpoint. Randy Orton, for example, has no real offensive strategy. He should build every match around hitting the RKO from wherever he can like DDP would do for the Diamond Cutter. Instead, he's doing awkward looking counters and moving at the same pace no matter what type of match he's supposed to be working - and this is the champ right now.

 

 

Orton has the fucking worst strategy. Considering that, like you said, his entire thing is hitting the shock RKO, he should really be trying to do that the entire match instead of messing around with fucking chinlocks and shit. He should literally start the match trying to RKO the guy as soon as they lock up.

 

Back to Punk - honestly, I really think he has mastered the WWE main event style. He's not the "Best in the World", but he sure has fuck as put together MOTYC with just about every top guy (meaning top guy star caliber wise, not workrate wise) in WWE. Granted, he was in the ring with some very talented people, but he more than did his part.

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Punk ran the Chicago marathon. He says it was after flying from Australia (who knows how work-ish that is but whatevs) and supposedly had a really great time, especially for his first marathon. Running a marathon is HARD, especially if you're doing things like flying all over the world to wrestle and not just focusing on training for a marathon. That's pretty friggin' athletic right there.

 

But how many marathoners would you be afraid of in a fight.

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you mean that chinlock offense isn't building to the RKO?

 

also, it seems like Orton has had the same shitty angst/crazy gimmick for awhile. Hell, if they had him bragging about being held in a military prison for 38 days, it'd beat the stuff he does now

 

edit: just figured out that Randy Orton's vocal delivery is similar to Cullen Crisp from Kindergarten Cop

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There is nothing wrong with Randy Orton in the ring. It's just after 5+ years his whole "Viper" character is burnt out, and he's such a terrible actor that the writers can't find any other persona he can pull off other than what he's doing now. But his ring work has always been top-notch.

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This all makes sense now, because I was honestly expecting Sheamus to turn heel during the six-man. I wonder where this leaves Sheamus as far as WrestleMania goes. I'd like to see him against Lesnar or Undertaker. Punk being gone sucks though, he was my favorite. D-Bry has gotta really step up to the plate right now, all eyes are probably on him because of this. Which is a good thing, in the long run. I was wondering why Punk just pulled a Road Dogg for most of the Royal Rumble and just laid on the mat and hugged the bottom rope.

 

This is playing out like a game of EWR.

 

EDIT: Whoa, Batista signed on for 2 years as a full time performer? Didn't know that.

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Punk ran the Chicago marathon. He says it was after flying from Australia (who knows how work-ish that is but whatevs) and supposedly had a really great time, especially for his first marathon. Running a marathon is HARD, especially if you're doing things like flying all over the world to wrestle and not just focusing on training for a marathon. That's pretty friggin' athletic right there.

 

But how many marathoners would you be afraid of in a fight.

 

 

Well, knowing the dude has the stamina to outlast me if the fight lasts more than, say, 15 seconds pretty scary.

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There is nothing wrong with Randy Orton in the ring. It's just after 5+ years his whole "Viper" character is burnt out, and he's such a terrible actor that the writers can't find any other persona he can pull off other than what he's doing now. But his ring work has always been top-notch.

 

I can't think of one match of his in the past year that I loved where Goldust wasn't involved.

 

Predictable, slow, plodding, boring, bullshit....RKO/3 count.

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Is it crazy to think that post-Royal Rumble the writers were scrambling to figure out how to get Bryan in a main event program for mania? A decision was made to go with HHH v. Bryan instead of HHH v. Punk?

      

I assumed Punk had a great deal of Creative imput with his stuff since after MiTB '11, I figured he push for he and Bryan at 'Mania with Punk as heel but Hunter seems to want Bryan at 'Mania. Other than that I dont see Punk being satisfied with anything else because He already work with 'Taker and Brock at Big PPVs he mighta been ok with working Batista because at least it woulda been a main event match.

 

No even to hate on Hunter but I dont have a desire to see him face Bryan at 'Mania.

I'd want to see Punk at 'Mania but on his own terms, its WWEs fault for not having a clear direction for him,

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