Reed Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I think the problem with many female characters is that they're usually playing the "wife of the anti-hero" role (Betty Draper, Margaret Thompson, Skylar White) and there's just not that many places to go with someone like that. She nags the guy about his misdeeds, she comes off as a shrew and the fans hate her. She refuses to leave him because she likes the cash he brings in, she's a hypocrite and the fans hate her. IMO, Carmela Soprano was the only time they ever did that character right. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I'll give you Skylar, who was pretty much rational and decent and doesn't deserve the flack people gave the character and the actress. A lot of people don't understand that Breaking Bad was written to be a really different kind of show where the protagonist gradually becomes a guy you root against. That's really against the grain and I think most of the audience missed it and was just thinking "Walt's the good guy, root for him." Meanwhile, he turned into an ego-driven, in over his head jackass who was most assuredly not "just looking out for his family." Skylar got a lot of undue criticism. Betty Draper, on the other hand, is horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I'm rewatching Breaking Bad with my girlfriend and Skylar is as awful as I remember. My girlfriend hates her as well. We're only halfway through season 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spritenaut 32 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 It amazes me how many people still "root" for Walter White. Gilligan's vision for the show from the beginning was that Mr. Chips slowly turns into Scarface. My main problem with the ending of Breaking Bad was that, at the 11th hour, they stopped short and gave Walt a pseudo-noble death. The Aryans were so despicable that whoever the writers pitted against them were going to come off as the babyfaces, more or less. I kinda wanted to see Hank bring Walt in, but a more fitting ending would have seen Walt kill/dispose of Hank, only for someone else to put the pieces together and bring him down. Hank's partner, maybe? Of course, it's not my show, so I assume it ended the way Gilligan wanted to end it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Don't get me wrong, on this second viewing Walt is a massive asshole at times. My girlfriend thinks Walt is a dick too. Jesse is such the heart and soul of Breaking Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spritenaut 32 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I wasn't responding to you, in particular. Just commenting on the fanbase in general. Anti-hero shows seem difficult to pull off because no matter how hard the writers try, a segment of the audience ends up still rooting for the character. I've always found the babyfacing of Walt and Tony Soprano weird, but I'm a lot more willing to overlook Greg House and Don Draper's flaws. I kinda didn't finish my thought above. My big problem with Breaking Bad's ending is that Walt didn't deserve even a mildly heroic death. I was mostly rooting for him to get everything he deserved from Hank, the feds, Jesse, etc. Instead, he ended up a sympathetic figure at the end (tried to save Hank, tried to give money to his family, tried to take the heat off Skylar, killed the Aryans and freed Jesse, etc.) Actually, given how much of the series was about Walt feeding his ego, a fitting ending would have been some random nobody taking him out pr maybe dying in the desert from some random accident - an end where, ultimately, he would never get credit for his criminal empire and no one would ever know what he did or what happened to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Jeez, I'm happy I keep missing Ray Donovan the last couple weeks in a row now. The cop boyfriend being played by the crazy fed from last season's Boardwalk Empire made my skin crawl already. Now she's really off the deep end... ugh. I do keep catching bits and pieces, with the only one I got from last ep being Abby freaking out thinking she heard a gunshot and Mickey trying to bribe Bunk Moreland. Just not enough to keep my interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Why would anyone root for Walter White? He was a guy who went from a promising future in his youth to being a middling nobody, until he got angry, grabbed life by the balls, and started kicking everybody's ass up to and including his boss. He might have become cold-blooded and developed a lack of trust for anyone along the way, but he did pick up a sweet bald head/goatee combo... I am the one who knocks. Back some Steveweisers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Does anyone watch Person of Interest? Is it worth investing my time? Just seen it pop up on UK Netflix and it sounds pretty great Definitely worth checking out. Its somewhat procedural, but the overarching plot stuff is generally good. The season finales especially great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Cutting back to Ray Donovan between SoA breaks tonight was strangely similar, except it only took Donovan a single season to go off the rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 My big problem with Breaking Bad's ending is that Walt didn't deserve even a mildly heroic death. I was mostly rooting for him to get everything he deserved from Hank, the feds, Jesse, etc. Instead, he ended up a sympathetic figure at the end (tried to save Hank, tried to give money to his family, tried to take the heat off Skylar, killed the Aryans and freed Jesse, etc.) Yeah, I never liked that, after ruining literally thousands of lives, he essentially got what he wanted and was made to look like a cool anti-hero. Say what you want about David Chase, but even he seemed to be pretty horrified that you had people rooting for Tony Soprano. Breaking Bad just sort of seemed to go with the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Walt was irredeemable to me too. But how many of you guys marked out for the full Heisenberg theme at the end of "Granite State" though? Don't lie. That thread is still sitting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipGofern Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 IShe nags the guy about his misdeeds, she comes off as a shrew and the fans hate her. She refuses to leave him because she likes the cash he brings in, she's a hypocrite and the fans hate her. IMO, Carmela Soprano was the only time they ever did that character right. Carmela was a horrid detestable character, for precisely the reason you state in the bolded part above. There's a fantastic episode in I believe season 2 (?) where Carmela starts seeing a shrink of her own - this terrific Egyptian actor who I remember died the day his episode aired. Anyway, he basically calls her on her shit and blows up her phony little world by dropping a truth bomb on her. Her response? Go home to Tony and ask him for money. I can't speak about MadMen or Breaking Bad I haven't seen either show but Carmela was an awful awful human being. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 The difference is The Sopranos understood exactly what Carmela was. The show didn't have her swinging wildly back and forth in who she was each episode, and it was very upfront about the fact that, ultimately, she was a hypocrite. Of course, for me, Tony didn't really cross the "moral event horizon" until Chris. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Oh, yeah: Carmella was a hideous person. But she was well written. That scene where the shrink condemned her for her lifestyle and told her to get out is probably one of the best things the show ever did. I thought her character was interesting because she seemed to know that, yes, she was a hideous person. Her story throughout the show was basically about her shedding her humanity and growing more comfortable with her immorality. Her callously forgetting about Adriana and forgetting her attempts to find her because Tony got her spec house passed was the perfect culmination of her character. Anything that happened to her after that (Tony's going to jail, Tony getting shot in front of her) was a deserved fate. As opposed to Skylar, whose character really was all over the place. Oh, and she's going to be happy and rich as soon as Walt Jr turns 18 despite the fact she's got blood on her hands too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Of course, for me, Tony didn't really cross the "moral event horizon" until Chris. Interestingly, someone brought that up to Chase and he denied the idea that Tony got worse over time, like many assumed, and that killing Chris was the final straw. He thought Tony was basically the same person he was when the show started. I think season 1 Tony probably would have killed Chris too under similar circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuroresuFan Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Color me surprised when The Master looked dumb as fuck. I'm surprised that this being a Guillermo project that the main creature would look so bad. The lawyer from the airplane looks creepier than The Master. I'm not much of a reader but in this case I should save myself the disappointment of this show and just pick up the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spritenaut 32 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 So I was channel surfing last night between innings of the local ball game, and I discovered something I didn't know existed: the rock fantasy camp episode of the Simpsons (channel guide info says it was from season 14). Holy shit! I had never heard of this ep before, much less seen it. Just a really fun 30 min of throwaway gags and odd bits. Guest voices were Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Tom Petty, Lenny Kravitz. Weird to see some of these guys doing Simpson gags, I tend to find even classic episodes of the Simpsons "mildly funny" instead of epic hilarity, so this def. stands out as one of my personal favorites, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 It'll be interesting to see how Gotham does. I thought at first it would coast on the Batman name, but considering Agents of Shield isn't exactly knocking them dead, I'm not sure. Plus, the whole idea of Batman and Catwoman as kids sounds WAY to Star Wars prequelish to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Gotham looks horrible. Who knew Batman's entire rogue's gallery lived in Gotham and were at large as kids? The whole thing feels like it's going to be wink wink nudge nudge fanservice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spritenaut 32 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 The reviews I've seen for Gotham has been pretty good, but, yeah, it's got a giant "suspension of disbelief" hurdle to leap. The "a lot of Batman's enemies knew Bruce as a kid" idea is absurd. A TV critic I know personally thought the eps sent out for review were quite good, but dark. He doesn't really think there's an audience out there for the show (apparently the early eps, at least, don't revolve around entirely around Batman-to-be). Gotham looks nice. And I like the casting for the adults. I'll give it a try. It probably will complement Sleepy Hollow fairly well tonally. As for SHIELD, well, it will help that the show looks like it costs more than $9.99 to shoot (I really don't get the talking point that SHIELD got better as the season progressed. Definitely not my opinion). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 It'll be interesting to see how Gotham does. I thought at first it would coast on the Batman name, but considering Agents of Shield isn't exactly knocking them dead, I'm not sure. Plus, the whole idea of Batman and Catwoman as kids sounds WAY to Star Wars prequelish to me. Yeah, the grand unified Gotham mythology really makes my teeth hurt. I really don't give a shit about the Penguin's misspent youth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 The whole show is going to be like your smug nerdy friend sitting next to you and elbowing you in the ribs, raising his eyebrows and saying, "see that person? Know who he's going to become? Huh? Huh?" They're apparently going to tease a different person bound to become The Joker in every episode. Sorry, but the Joker is a force of nature with no origin story (or at least, one that is multiple choice). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 If they want to do teen Gotham stuff, you'd think it would be a good time to take another stab at BIRDS OF PREY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 The whole show is going to be like your smug nerdy friend sitting next to you and elbowing you in the ribs, raising his eyebrows and saying, "see that person? Know who he's going to become? Huh? Huh?" They're apparently going to tease a different person bound to become The Joker in every episode. Sorry, but the Joker is a force of nature with no origin story (or at least, one that is multiple choice). And as I noted in the movie bracket thread, NO ONE can be the Joker again after Heath Ledger in the Dark Knight.(Mark Hamill being the exception). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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