AEW DYNASTY - 4/21/2024

[The Natural]

What I've really liked since Kazuchika Okada signed with AEW this year is how the Rainmaker is a one and done again like it used to be in NJPW for many years.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

57 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Never thought I'd see an Avalanche Tiger Suplex but did in Will Ospreay vs. Bryan Danielson. Scary shit.

Mima Shimoda doing them for years as the Death Lake Driver and nearly looking like she killed people every time. She eventually loosened up so it was more like a normal flat back but there's a reason people stopped doing it for a couple of decades.

EDIT TO ADD
- Straight up murder version: https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/19bxvhy/mima_shimoda_hits_the_deathlake_driver_on_a/
- Toned down version, still murdery: https://twitter.com/SirLARIATO/status/1779948938487009402

Edited April 22 by Stefanie Sparkleface

[Death From Above]

Honestly I think the landing on the second one looked like it hurt even worse.

[Dolfan in NYC]

 

[TimLivingston]

Mima was the first person I thought of when I saw that in the match. Goddess. 
 

I think the match is rightfully going to place Will as the best in the world currently (even if I thought the selling was spotty and inconsistent at times; this I believe is more generational than anything, as “selling” has become more about performative stuff around Getting My Shit In as opposed to the more challenging aspect of having that stuff having a match worked around it), Bryan as an all-timer, and amongst the sickos, second best match of the month behind the Blue Panther match.
 

Also, I like that Bryan alluded to the Storm Driver being overkill a while back, then got hit with it in the match, played up the doctor bit, and then got OSPREAY TO KAYFABE RETIRE IT. He’s truly a master of the details. As said before, this means when Ospreay does dust it off, it’ll be necessary and get a much bigger reaction, and I’m sure it was Bryan’s way of giving him a rub to make the move mean more than it has been. 

I’ll get to the rest later, but suffice to say, I was satisfied with what they did and hope they get to do it again down the line. 

[John E. Dynamite]

59 minutes ago, Stefanie Sparkleface said:

Mima Shimoda doing them for years as the Death Lake Driver and nearly looking like she killed people every time. She eventually loosened up so it was more like a normal flat back but there's a reason people stopped doing it for a couple of decades.

EDIT TO ADD
- Straight up murder version: https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/19bxvhy/mima_shimoda_hits_the_deathlake_driver_on_a/
- Toned down version, still murdery: https://twitter.com/SirLARIATO/status/1779948938487009402

Quite possible the first time I ever spent money on non-WCW or WWE wrestling was giving one of my parents a five dollar bill so I could buy an Comcast OnDemand PPV with a bunch of joshi matches. LCO was included and the Death Lake Driver left a proper mark on me.

Speaking of proper marks, between the Reddit Cares Safety Squad going all-out on that first post & the thousands of takes getting mad at Bryan Danielson for selling too good... can every human being go away? I feel like I am trapped in a madhouse. The pro-wrestling fanbase simultaneously complains about no-selling and gets mad when you pretend a move hurts. This wasn't even exploiting Danielson's concussion history. He sold like his neck got compressed. Like he was in a ton of pain and had his nerves jammed. I've had that happen to me. I've felt the painful results of it every day for over a decade. It was a proper, realistic sell and I thought that was the point. God damnit, we can't have any fun. No nice things.

[Curt McGirt]

5 hours ago, Craig H said:

those two matches, one of them being the best match in AEW’s history and maybe in wrestling history

AHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA No. 

In this show we got not only an "I'm sorry" but a "JUST DIE", and a point at a PPV logo sign. Anything else hardcore count? Two top belts in one division? An Edge match? 

[NikoBaltimore]

If it was anybody else I might have been initially more open to what was being done.  But because it was Danielson with his injury history plus the fake injuries he's done to mixed results I just had a hard time opening my mind to what he was doing.  I was also hung up on the staredown>Blade>pinfall being a much better result that would have ended things on a super high for everybody.

That said Tim's and John's posts just now are helping a lot with what was being done and I can appreciate it.  The intention was to make the Storm Driver more deadly and if it works in the long run then it's worth the awkward ending.  Maybe a rewatch will help though that might not be anytime soon.  I think it's also going to help for me to separate as much as possible what happened with Danielson before and focus on this in a vacuum.  But awkward ending or not that feels like a maybe top 5 all time AEW match.

Also, on a separate note the St. Louis crowd was really fucking awesome throughout the night.  They were into the stuff you'd expect and also helped make me care about a Strong/O'Reilly match that I initially had no real investment in.  So kudos to them and whoever from here went.

Edited April 22 by NikoBaltimore

[Octopus]

I was totally ok with the selling at the end of the Danielson match. I totally get why other’s wouldn’t though, so everyone is ok to think whatever they like and have respected feelings. I find the storyline a tad off with it kayfabe continuing in the press conference (mainly it makes Bryce look bad not stopping it well), but using that to retire the move is pretty cool. I’m interested to see where they go from here. 

As a match it was very exciting. It’s being hyped as the Greatest Match Ever by some which I respect. A little too big move continuance for me to put it at that level. When I do my cute little lists I like to nitpick for a while before landing on that. BUT, the big moments which visually exceptional and extremely exciting. I also loved little moments like them both going for a single leg takedown and things of that nature. I’ll have to watch it again to appreciate all of the nuances. I expect super rating from Big Dave. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

I 100% get where everyone who didn't like the Danielson sell are coming from, don't disagree, and there's no right or wrong answer - but personally speaking, I didn't think this was anything approaching the seizure sell at FD, and I'd actually go as far as to posit that this particular sell was possibly even performed with the feedback for that one in mind.

Yes, it was similar to the FD one in that it played off of a legit injury history (which, again, no argument with anyone who felt uncomfortable) but for me, it had enough hallmarks of being a work that I never really got that same "Ohhhh, poor taste" feeling: Ospreay's music having been re-started, the ref (of all people) shooing him away, the announcers rushing to the next segment with a somber 'The show must go on, as they say...' as well as emphasizing that Ospreay must be wondering whether he went too far on someone he ultimately respects, with him looking back unsure a few times while celebrating.

My read on the sell was that we're likely building to a rematch where Bryan sneaks by because Ospreay isn't as vicious as he was here, and second guesses himself to avoid inflicting such a "serious injury" again - think back to that NXT title match with Sami Zayn and PAC where Zayn almost cost himself because he wouldn't stoop to PAC's level and crack him with the title and hesitated - something along those lines

[Octopus]

23 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

 

My read on the sell was that we're likely building to a rematch where Bryan sneaks by because Ospreay isn't as vicious as he was here, and second guesses himself to avoid inflicting such a "serious injury" again - think back to that NXT title match with Sami Zayn and PAC where Zayn almost cost himself because he wouldn't stoop to PAC's level and crack him with the title and hesitated - something along those lines

Or Danielson wins by using the Tiger Driver 91 on him  setting up the rubber match at Double or Nothing or [insert whatever here]

Edited April 22 by Octopus

[Just Dave]

I also really liked that 6 man, too. I'm hoping this sparks a TNT Title run for Malakai Black. He deserves it. Cope doesn't need a long reign and I'd like to see HOB raise their profile this spring. 

[Curt McGirt]

Whoa. I just realized that nobody that I've seen in this thread has said yet said ANYTHING (unless I missed it) about 

Spoiler

that dead actor's kid... what's the name of that guy... Luke something

 

[Phantom Lord]

Well I've had enough time to recover from that show last night. I thought it was excellent for the most part. Only match I honestly didn't like was Jericho vs. Hook. I like Jericho, but he needs to take an extended break.

What can be said about Danielson vs. Osprey that probably hasn't been all ready said? Was it the best match ever in America? I don't know. But it certainly was a great match.

The ladder match was really good and I honestly didn't see the Jack Perry run in happening so I was kinda shocked when it did happen.

Glad that Swerve won the title. I was surprised there was no Hangman run in post match. I kept waiting for something to happen, but I guess it wasn't to be.

Overall a really good show last night. AEW usually delivers when it comes to it on a PPV.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

19 minutes ago, Just Dave said:

I also really liked that 6 man, too. I'm hoping this sparks a TNT Title run for Malakai Black. He deserves it. Cope doesn't need a long reign and I'd like to see HOB raise their profile this spring. 

Yo, same - the only thing I'm kinda stuck on is this: I read a while ago that a lot of the stop/starting with them is because of Malekai's recurring back issues - with that, I'm kind of wondering if it might be better for both his health and the longevity of the reign/story to give them another big Trios title run instead.

Another advantage in doing that instead would be that taking the titles off of Bullet Club would free Jay White up to start taking it to the next level as a single himself - I mean no disrespect to the Gunns or Acclaimed, but he's way, way too good for this material; we ought to be talking about him in the same breath as Ospreay, Danielson, PAC, and Okada IMO.

Ultimately though, if injuries weren't a factor, I'd be fully on board for a TNT reign or possibly more - even a losing effort as the first Hogan-esque 'monster of the month' challenger to Swerve would be a great position IMO.

 

--

ETA: @Phantom LordI too was waiting for Hanger, but even if he IS available, I get the sense it might've been a little too close to what they did with Sideshow Luke Perry's boy running in on the tag match

Edited April 22 by Zakk_Sabbath

[Just Dave]

I've posted this elsewhere, but this would be the time I'd REALLY elevate HOB. I'd probably put the Trios titles on them AND the TNT Title on Malakai. I'd probably have Buddy win either Eddie's NJPW title (if AEW is allowed to make that call) or the Owen. Or both. If TK was letting me book the show, I'd have Brody steamroll Mark Briscoe for the ROH World title, too. Put gold on all those guys. 

[Curt McGirt]

It's it though that it's kinda the team that doesn't need any gold because they never lose?

[Octopus]

Idk if I post this here or elsewhere: if Jungle Boy becomes a super over heel for a sustained period of time, then TK was right to show the footage. I will admit being wrong. If it becomes meh, then I’m right and should become the new booker.

[HarryArchieGus]

Holy smokes! What an unbelievable Monday morning gift! Okada v Pac to begin and St Louis is goddamn electric! Rainmaker pose into the bird flip may have been the top highlight among many. That slo-mo of Pac's moonsault is certainly a contender. I especially loved the 'he's our bastard' Pac standing ovation. God I love Pac! That's how you start a marathon of excellence. Eddie/Briscoe/Copeland v The House follows perfectly. There were some incredible matches on this card, like this one, that will no doubt be forgotten amongst the MOTYCs. All 6 were spectacular. Loved the Briscoe step up chair dive. Here's hoping these 6 pair off in singles going forward. Julia v Willow was short and sweet. Willowmania is now running and preparing to go wild shortly. At some point in her run, Willow will be money for this company. Roddy v Kyle O Reilly was every bit as sensational as I hoped it would be. Glad the Kingdom stooges were left in the back other than Wardy's near involvement. Nice clean win. Hook v Jericho was perfectly fine, and nicely laid out. I hope that Jericho both embraces this heat and smashes the shit out of that meaningless title - Poffo/Hennig style. Rosa v Storm exceeded my expectations like most. I loved seeing Toni wrestle a bit more straight up again. And has Rosa ever looked that good? Deonna in her sparkling onesy made quite a mark. Ma-ri-ah! Bryan Danielson v Will Ospreay was pure joy. A goddamn masterpiece. Everything about this from the video package to the post match was a work of great art by two beyond great artists. No surprise that FTR v Bucks find a way to aptly follow that. And ppl complain about TV death spots. I generally hate ladder matches, but certainly there's an exception to be made for these 4 pros. Ladder matches are always marred by the pretend slow climbs, but these guys proved it's not a shitty requirement. I hope others were taking notes. Cash Wheeler wrestled like he was willing to die for his art. The inevitable Jack Perry run-in was fantastic. Loved the reaction and very much looking forward to this next run. Nothing but love for Jack. Samoa Joe v Swerve followed all that and put on a helluva bout. Not that I'm surprised. These 5 hour shows take their toll on these live crowds, and zero heat for the false finishes was a bit disappointing if understandable. That said, they were all ready to come alive for the title switch. Very happy for Swerve Strickland - even if I wanted Joe's reign to keep going. Unreal. I always love AEW on PPV, but this felt even more satisfying than usual. AEDub most definitely earned the Dean call on this one.

[Curt McGirt]

12 minutes ago, Octopus said:

Idk if I post this here or elsewhere: if Jungle Boy becomes a super over heel for a sustained period of time, then TK was right to show the footage. I will admit being wrong. If it becomes meh, then I’m right and should become the new booker.

He'll be UNDISPUTED KINGDOM 4 LYFE in the latter case?

[The Unholy Dragon]

This show is really demonstrating for me how much the recency bias and general tastes of the modern IWC crowd make me feel like a sourpuss. 

Mostly I liked the show and to my shock, I loved Ospreay vs. Danielson (I expected to like it, but I generally really don't like Will's work so it felt like there was a ceiling) and I came out feeling good about the show overall. 

But seeing people calling Will/Bryan a contender for best in anything past the night just feels so bizarre to me that I feel like the Old Man Yells at Cloud meme. I don't even know if it's a top 5 match in the past month or so for me, though if it's not it's probably like #6. And people coming out of it calling Will the best in the world as if he wasn't handheld by the literal best wrestler ever also feels to me like people who cannot actually engage with wrestling beyond the loudest possible declarative work. 

The whole thing makes me feel worse about a match I genuinely loved because I do not love it to the same extent as others and the gap makes me feel as though the type of wrestling I do really love will only get sparser as a generation of wrestlers and fans oriented toward flash and aesthetics over substance continue to drive the focal points of the industry away from narratively stronger work.

It's me becoming an old wrestling curmudgeon in real time. 

Show was mostly good though, and at least the bad stuff (Jericho, the Bucks) was funny so there's something. 

Credit to Okada and Pac for having a real restrained banger too. Loved Roddy/Kyle as well. Roddy still probably Kyle's best opponent overall.

Fun show and to their credit, one that is absolutely built and sold for their audience to reaffirm that commitment after some trying months. 

[Curt McGirt]

If Hook doesn't come back after Jericho with a barbed wire bat, well...

it's still gonna be as bad as ever.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

1 hour ago, Octopus said:

Idk if I post this here or elsewhere: if Jungle Boy becomes a super over heel for a sustained period of time, then TK was right to show the footage. I will admit being wrong. If it becomes meh, then I’m right and should become the new booker.

This is a tough one because since the airing, he's really only been in front of smart-leaning crowds with yesterday and NJPW the other week - I mean no disrespect to Perry or the promotion as a whole in saying this, but I think the real test is gonna come when he appears in front of a smaller TV crowd.

And this goes without saying, but a LOT depends on how the follow up is actually handled - continuing on like last night for a few months, and playing the "what's he doing here?" game every time might be a bit insulting, a 20 minute promo chock full of insider references explaining the machinations would 100% kill him dead, throwing him out there for a random match with no fanfare is a shit idea - I'd say I'm equal parts excited, and worried they won't stick the landing.

[Niners Fan in CT]

The thing with Jericho and Hook and why I think it's one of the worst matches I've seen in a while..... if a match is bad and the work is bad but it's like 5-10 minutes then whatever.  But they dragged this motherfucker out for 17+ minutes and then had a drizzling shits finish to boot.  

On top of that the crowd completely shat on it and Jericho is still overstaying his welcome.  He needs to go away for a while.  

So yeah it's just terrible from beginning to end for me and the one bad portion of the event.   Everything else was either solid or kicked ass. 

[Steventon]

I’ll be in the minority but I though Okada vs PAC was a dumb dumb spotfest with no structure and dumb stuff like an avalanche brain buster being used as a throwaway spot a third of the way in and forgotten about instantly. Okada’s heeling was great though, more of that and less movez please. Agreed on the rain maker being restored to a one shot kill move feeling refreshing after years of it being nerfed in new Japan.

ospreay vs danielson was really excellent. As a ospreay sceptic, he’s clearly matured a lot over the past year and now uses his incredible athleticism to enhance his matches rather than as a crutch for lack of substance. Yes there were big spots but most of the match was built around struggle, grit, and beating the crud out of each other. This felt like a match designed to make ospreay as a top guy and pass on the mantle, and his passion and emotion matched that. No issue with the ending, I actually was glad such a move was presented in such a serious way, it makes a change from them just being another in a long line of predictable kickouts

 

6-man was really fun thanks to the babyfaces. Brody shines in these matches too. Murphy is mechanically fine but bland. Black feels like a guy who has long been exposed as average and whose time has passed. Copeland doing a regular superplex on Brody got a much bigger reaction than PACs brain buster because a) it was more impressive and b) it was better placed in the match. Just saying.

we need to hurry with mone’s heel turn. I’m already turning on her garbage entrance, painful wwe dancing and lack of actually doing anything

storm vs Rosa ruled and was the best women’s match in ages. Considering she has a rep for being a stiff, Rosa’s selling was pretty great. Both ladies laid it in, took some big bumps and showed a lot of energy.

main event was ok. I liked swerve but have come to feel he’s overrated recently. Like most joe matches it peaked very early. The stuff with the arm work was good but was kinda filler. The flubbed finish was ambitious, shame they couldn’t pull it off. Good on Swerve and cool moment, can’t say there’s tonnes of matches im looking forward to from swerve though. I loved the Jimmy rave robe though, god bless nana for keeping that.

I skipped most of hook - Jericho and the ladder match. Jericho is boring, hook is an over pushed nepo who gets to kick out of 2 Judas effects for some reason. Jack Perry being back is cool, i am down for him to cause some (on screen) chaos

 

Edited April 22 by Steventon