JLowe Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Just now, EVA said: Finlay is an interesting case, because, despite his age, he was still an active wrestler up until about 10 years ago, which included a fairly busy indie run from 2011-12. So I’d be willing to take a look at Fit’s resume He also basically just taught them how to fight stiff which was lightyears better than the glorified apartment wrestling that was the norm at the time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 29 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said: This is a toughie. I agree with you as a general rule - there have been some really great matches in the last ten years in both WWE and AEW agented by guys like TJ Wilson, Christopher Daniels, Shane Helms and more, who fit your bill - but putting aside my Bret superfandom for a moment, I truly, objectively think he is one of the most 'timeless' guys bell to bell. If *ever* there were an exception to be made to that rule, it's Bret. There was a Punk/Wardlow match last year that was probably a solid 60% or more comprised of spots borrowed from the Bret/Diesel matches, and they had the whole building eating outta their hands. And again, I could be blinded by my fandom, I totally acknowledge that - but his stuff just doesn't feel dated to me at all for whatever reason. He's a 'drop him in any era' guy IMO. Edit: Or for another example, how about Fit Finlay? He's an older guy, but I seem to recall some very positive reviews when he started agenting for the WWE women Personally, I put less emphasis on age. There are simply some people that can coach and others that can't. Talent at your given professions does not equal being a good coach. In fact, often times, those who are best at something have the hardest time showing others how to do it. They just do it. I don't know which category Bret falls into since he's never really had a run at coaching. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, EVA said: Finlay is an interesting case, because, despite his age, he was still an active wrestler up until about 10 years ago, which included a fairly busy indie run from 2011-12. So I’d be willing to take a look at Fit’s resume D'oh. Excellent point on that. My brain keeps thinking he retired in like '06-'07ish for some reason - disregard that one 3 minutes ago, Log said: Personally, I put less emphasis on age. There are simply some people that can coach and others that can't. Talent at your given professions does not equal being a good coach. In fact, often times, those who are best at something have the hardest time showing others how to do it. They just do it. I don't know which category Bret falls into since he's never really had a run at coaching. That's another really great point - sometimes 'a good hand' makes a better coach than a HOFer. Another legit sport example, but I'm reminded of when Magic Johnson became a coach and the Lakers immediately went on like a ten game losing streak. My point though, was that regardless of age, or how long he's been away, I don't think there's anything particularly antiquated about Bret's work that should preclude him from at least getting a shot - and again, this is all assuming this rumor has even a modicum of truth behind it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 It's funny that the 2 people generally credited for training/pushing the women in the 2000s were Fit and Dutch. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, odessasteps said: It's funny that the 2 people generally credited for training/pushing the women in the 2000s were Fit and Dutch. Yeah, that KO division was pretty awesome back then, too. Another TNA 'God dammit, if they'd only just done X' to add to the pile of what could have been/what we could have had sooner pre-AEW. Edit: Not that AEW's women's division doesn't have its own issues, I just mean in terms of really getting behind the women in earnest to try and be that alternative to the 'step-above-apartment' stuff Jlowe alluded to Edited July 25, 2023 by Zakk_Sabbath 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 4 hours ago, EVA said: If this is my promotion, if you haven’t been an active wrestler in 20 years, you can’t agent for me. What do you have against Dean Malenko? 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said: What do you have against Dean Malenko? Malenko had a dark match against Mistico in 2007 supposedly. He still fits @EVA’s requirements. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Casey said: Malenko had a dark match against Mistico in 2007 supposedly. He still fits @EVA’s requirements. Bret worked plenty in 2010. If we’re playing this game, he still fits EVA’s requirements. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Probably comes down to what active means. In Malenko and Bret’s case, a match or a handful probably don’t mean much. What has Malenko produced in AEW, anyway? I feel like we get more insight into who produced what for WWE shows, but hardly anything (ever) for AEW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLowe Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, Casey said: Probably comes down to what active means. In Malenko and Bret’s case, a match or a handful probably don’t mean much. What has Malenko produced in AEW, anyway? I feel like we get more insight into who produced what for WWE shows, but hardly anything (ever) for AEW. In some organizations, the credit is shared among everyone externally and rewarded internally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, JLowe said: In some organizations, the credit is shared among everyone externally and rewarded internally. I mean, alright I guess, but that’s not the case here. Besides the recent news of what OC has done, Revolution from this year had the producers of matches leaked to the sheets. And to answer my own question, Malenko produced the Hangman/Mox Texas Deathmatch. Edited July 25, 2023 by Casey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonidas Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 Rush/Andrade/Dralistico vs HoB when? I'd dig that at Wembley. Also, Silver especially, but all of DO are criminally underused. Fingers crossed they can still salvage themselves to the level of the above teams. Silver could easily have been in the spot OC finds himself in. Equally good in the ring, and was at one time, equally over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 I want to see Rush and Andrade feud with each other. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Leonidas said: Rush/Andrade/Dralistico vs HoB when? I'd dig that at Wembley. Also, Silver especially, but all of DO are criminally underused. Fingers crossed they can still salvage themselves to the level of the above teams. Silver could easily have been in the spot OC finds himself in. Equally good in the ring, and was at one time, equally over. There was a great moment with Silver a couple of weeks ago on Rampage, where he started his part of a DO/Renee promo in that BTE-style, self-aware 'Meat Man' way, but then out of nowhere he turned up the indignation against Hangman, and he crossed the finish line super strong, wrapping it up with something like 'Does that sound like a friend to you, Renee?' Even though it didn't really start as such, I thought it was the best 'serious' mic stuff he's done so far - so I too am hoping they can kind of find their way back. Same goes for Chuck/Trent - OC is on his own level right now, but I see absolutely no reason those guys shouldn't be in the tag title scene contemporaneously. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 I like how people shit on JR endlessly for being grumpy and talking shit about the product, but Bret Hart, who is grumpier than JR and talks more shit about the product than JR, gets a free pass. Bret is maybe one of the most if not the most self-important and egotistical former wrestler, which is saying something. Sorry, but keep him far, far, far away from being any sort of agent or on screen talent. And I say all of that as someone who was a fan of Bret Hart. As for Rush, fuck yeah. I look forward to seeing Rush beat the shit out of many more wrestlers. That dude rocks. He has the violence of NXT Champion Andrade, but turned up to 11. And yeah, it's time for LFI vs HoB and whoever is left alive at the end of that wins. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 If Bret F’k Hart wants to try his hand at agenting some matches I at least take a flyer. Also he’s right about wrestlers slapping their legs right in front of the camera (looking at you Luchasaurus, looking at you Taya) 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 3 hours ago, JLowe said: He also basically just taught them how to fight stiff which was lightyears better than the glorified apartment wrestling that was the norm at the time. And the whole thing started as a rib on Fit. A rib that lead to Trish and Lita main eventing a RAW, underrated sennce of humor on that guy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 50 minutes ago, Craig H said: like how people shit on JR endlessly for being grumpy and talking shit about the product, but Bret Hart, who is grumpier than JR and talks more shit about the product than JR, gets a free pass. Bret is maybe one of the most if not the most self-important and egotistical former wrestler, which is saying something. Sorry, but keep him far, far, far away from being any sort of agent or on screen talent. And I say all of that as someone who was a fan of Bret Hart. I mean, you already know I respectfully disagree with the idea of keeping him far, far, far, but I do concede you're right on the free grouchiness pass. Thinking aloud, I guess where I'd contrast them is that where J.R. sort of rails against guys who are a bit too 'modern,' Bret seems to stick to criticizing those he feels weren't any good, or those who hurt people, regardless of 'style.' I don't know if I'm articulating this correctly or not, but some of the stuff J.R. might criticize a person for doing in the ring, are things that very well might have had prototype models brought to the US audience by Owen for the first time - idk if I can necessarily see Bret taking a grumpy on the house Jr. style in the same way. Just food for thought 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanie Sparkleface Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, Craig H said: I like how people shit on JR endlessly for being grumpy and talking shit about the product, but Bret Hart, who is grumpier than JR and talks more shit about the product than JR, gets a free pass. Bret is maybe one of the most if not the most self-important and egotistical former wrestler, which is saying something. Sorry, but keep him far, far, far away from being any sort of agent or on screen talent. And I say all of that as someone who was a fan of Bret Hart. I'm not exactly a Bret Hart apologist, but Jim Ross using his position at commentary to say "I hope she has a wardrobe malfunction" during an Anna Jay match lands him on the "no thanks, I'd rather not" list for me. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) It's possible Bret would stop shitting on the company that's paying him. Ross actively shits on the company that's paying him, but to paraphrase Scott Steiner, that's not normal. Edited July 25, 2023 by Dog 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 38 minutes ago, Sparkleface said: I'm not exactly a Bret Hart apologist, but Jim Ross using his position at commentary to say "I hope she has a wardrobe malfunction" during an Anna Jay match lands him on the "no thanks, I'd rather not" list for me. That is indeed fair and the name that came to mind for me wasn't Anna Jay, but rather Penelope Ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 When JR missed a lot of AEW time for his cancer treatment a couple of years ago, and Taz was subbed in for him, the shows got better. But then Ross got a huge return pop when he came back, so they ran with him for a bit before phasing him down again. And now he's off again, hurt from his fall on the way to the first Collision. And I don't think anyone's really missing him, are they? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coletti Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 minute ago, AxB said: When JR missed a lot of AEW time for his cancer treatment a couple of years ago, and Taz was subbed in for him, the shows got better. But then Ross got a huge return pop when he came back, so they ran with him for a bit before phasing him down again. And now he's off again, hurt from his fall on the way to the first Collision. And I don't think anyone's really missing him, are they? I appreciate Jim Ross for his long, storied career and everything he's done for professional wrestling. The man has had some incredible moments. That said, he fucking sucks now and should never return to the announce booth outside of an occasional nostalgia appearance. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 I finally saw a pic of Gravity. I’m 99% sure he’s @Shartnado in a mask. 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shartnado Posted July 26, 2023 Share Posted July 26, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Log said: I finally saw a pic of Gravity. I’m 99% sure he’s @Shartnado in a mask. They pretty explicitly said Gravity's my brot... um, no they didn't. What? I didn't say anything! ...but yeah, if you meant the Dynamite promo picture (next to PAC), there are some structural similarities, that I can see. Plus an arm band cleverly covering my tattoo... Edited July 26, 2023 by Shartnado Now I see what you mean... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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