WWE and Endeavor To Merge

[Raziel]

That's not Vince.  That's Vicente McHombre.

[odessasteps]

I wonder how many WWE workers in 2023 "the average person on the street" can actually name. Not counting the ones from the past generation. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, odessasteps said:

I wonder how many WWE workers in 2023 "the average person on the street" can actually name. Not counting the ones from the past generation. 

For that matter, if someone stopped watching wrestling in 2001, they wouldn't recognize 2023 Paul Heyman unless he had on an ECW hat. 

[odessasteps]

Did this Alfred Hitchcock guy eat Paul Heyman? 

[John from Cincinnati]

My god, he dyed his eyebrows. 

[jaedmc]

Manuel McMahon, evil twin to Vince, separated at birth and raised in Tijuana, may be the character that saves wrestling.

3 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I wonder how many WWE workers in 2023 "the average person on the street" can actually name. Not counting the ones from the past generation. 

I mean I can't even fathom what the Average person of 8 billion people could be.

[For Great Justice]

The thing about the Vince stache that kills me is the still shaving off the top half of the stache. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

I gonna tell people that's Salvador Lutteroth, inventor of Lucha Libre.

[nofuture]

[Krone]

Do WWE or UFC even need those recognizable names by this point (I say that kind of in jest)? I'm not arguing how a Conor can pop the numbers of a Pape, but I feel like it's the brand that sells the shows now on both ends of the spectrum. I have friends who have kids now (god I feel old) and I know for a fact those parents aren't watching WWE, but will gladly take their kids to a show. I'm talking people who will have a "WWE" themed party for their kids and you look at all the stuff and it's from like 2013. Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Kane, Undertaker, etc. people that aren't even on the roster anymore (with kids who are 6, 7 years old meaning they wouldn't even know some of these guys).  You will always have your people that follow the product hardcore, but I do think a good chunk of them are just "hey WWE is coming to town!" or "you guys wanna go watch a UFC event?". 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Krone

[Craig H]

Vince looks like Frank Reynolds did his dye job.

[Gonzo]

24 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Conspiracy time: The real Vince died some years ago and this is his long lost brother.

Burns: "Get me Vince McMahon."

Smithers: "He's unavailable."

Burns: "Then get me his non-union Mexican equivalent!"

[odessasteps]

It's been Rod ever since the Higher Power reveal. 

[A_K]

Going to be v interesting to look back on this one in 6/12 months. Endeavour buying (perhaps literally) top of the market with a mound of debt & no other clear bidders at the table? V intriguing no mega cap technology / media company involved. Will be interesting to see what the story was re: Saudi interest

Edited April 3, 2023 by A_K

[Elsalvajeloco]

22 minutes ago, Krone said:

Do WWE or UFC even need those recognizable names by this point (I say that kind of in jest)? I'm not arguing how a Conor can pop the numbers of a Pape, but I feel like it's the brand that sells the shows now on both ends of the spectrum. I have friends who have kids now (god I feel old) and I know for a fact those parents aren't watching WWE, but will gladly take their kids to a show. I'm talking people who will have a "WWE" themed party for their kids and you look at all the stuff and it's from like 2013. Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, Kane, Undertaker, etc. people that aren't even on the roster anymore (with kids who are 6, 7 years old meaning they wouldn't even know some of these guys).  You will always have your people that follow the product hardcore, but I do think a good chunk of them are just "hey WWE is coming to town!" or "you guys wanna go watch a UFC event?". 

Honestly, I think Paul doesn't follow the UFC product enough to give an honest take or assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of the UFC. He sounds like a guy who stopped following it about ten or fifteen years ago. It doesn't make him the only one, but you can't critique it if that's your talking point.

Now that said, I think one of the issues the UFC does have is they're not aggressive in trying to present their TV shows as something bigger. They had one or two shots on ABC, and they just made it feel like just another semi decent TV card. Not as big a swing and miss as Bellator on CBS recently (outside of the Fedor retirement deal, that was majorly disappointing) where the ratings were reflecting that and were abysmal. Most hardcore fans didn't even know it was happening. Now THAT is a visibility issue.

With UFC, the last thing I felt was aggressive was the McGregor vs. Cerrone PPV where they had a cutaway during a major NBA game on ABC in primetime to show him (Conor) arriving at the arena. That was major. Other than that, most of the cards are business as usual. They've fallen into a pattern where unless it's a big fight, they don't really promote it or it's not advertised much. 

I watch Undisputed and First Things First on FS1 almost every week day, and I cannot fucking get away from Smackdown ads and Michael Cole's voiceover. I don't see the same thing on ESPN for UFC. Day of? Yes. But when you have cards 3 out of 4 weeks a month, you need to do better.

[DEAN]

43 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Conspiracy time: The real Vince died some years ago and this is his long lost brother.

This can't be real.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, DEAN said:

This can't be real.

It's either real or someone brought back Vincent Price cause they forgot to embalm him.

[Krone]

11 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Honestly, I think Paul doesn't follow the UFC product enough to give an honest take or assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of the UFC. He sounds like a guy who stopped following it about ten or fifteen years ago. It doesn't make him the only one, but you can't critique it if that's your talking point.

Now that said, I think one of the issues the UFC does have is they're not aggressive in trying to present their TV shows as something bigger. They had one or two shots on ABC, and they just made it feel like just another semi decent TV card. Not as big a swing and miss as Bellator on CBS (outside of the Fedor retirement deal, that was majorly disappointing) where the ratings were reflecting that and were abysmal. Most hardcore fans didn't even know it was happening. Now THAT is a visibility issue.

The last thing I felt was aggressive was the McGregor vs. Cerrone PPV where they had a cutaway during a major NBA game on ABC in primetime to show him (Conor) arriving at the arena. The was major. Other than that, most of the cards are business as usual. They've fallen into a pattern where unless it's a big fight, they don't really promote it or it's not advertised much. 

I watch Undisputed and First Things First on FS1 almost every week day, and I cannot fucking get away from Smackdown ads and Michael Cole's voiceover. I don't see the same thing on ESPN for UFC. Day of? Yes. But when you have cards 3 out of 4 weeks a month, you need to do better.

Totally agree, and that's another reason why Chandler vs. McGregor is gonna sell a lot of PPVs. They'll have the TUF build up which is something they usually don't have (good build up + notable names [at least in McGregor, I know you know Chandler is legit, but I'd imagine most casuals just seem him as the dude that's 2-3 in UFC] = success). Would probably help if TUF was on like ESPN as opposed to ESPN+ like back in the day when it was on SpikeTV and easier to follow. I remember young me being stoked for Ortiz/Shamrock and that was without knowing too much of their history strictly because of that 3rd season of TUF.

[Matt D]

Oh god, it’s like reliving the pain of 2008 Observers in this thread and it’s just been a few hours.  

[Zakk_Sabbath]

2 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Oh god, it’s like reliving the pain of 2008 Observers in this thread and it’s just been a few hours.  

On a similar note, I'm kind of happy today marks the death of the 'UFC does wrestling better than wrestling does!' talking point.

It's official: MMA IS pro-wrestling.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Zakk_Sabbath

[Zimbra]

3 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Oh god, it’s like reliving the pain of 2008 Observers in this thread and it’s just been a few hours.  

Hey, some of us are just here to get off our jokes about Vince looking like John Waters with a shellfish allergy.

[jaedmc]

4 minutes ago, Krone said:

Totally agree, and that's another reason why Chandler vs. McGregor is gonna sell a lot of PPVs.

Not to get too off topic but... I'll be surprised if this fight even happens.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Just now, Zimbra said:

Hey, some of us are just here to get off our jokes about Vince looking like John Waters with a shellfish allergy.

GODDAMNIT, I WAS THINKING JOHN WATERS AND IT WAS ON THE TIP OF MY TONGUE.

[odessasteps]

I was also thinking Timothy Dalton as Errol Flynn in the Rocketeer. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

9 minutes ago, jaedmc said:

Not to get too off topic but... I'll be surprised if this fight even happens.

I would be shocked if it doesn't happen. Conor is one those guys just like Jon Jones where it feels like a bunch of his fights fall through. However, using Jon as the example, he hasn't had an official cancelled fight since the week of drug test failure with DC. That was seven years ago. He had a bunch of stuff in between that, but once his fights are made, they usually happen.

Just doing the event threads in the MMA forum, there are some dudes whose Tapology page listing their cancelled fights is fucking ridiculous. Every card has one or two fighter bare minimum who for some reason hasn't fought in multiple years for some crazy incident like a kettlebell fell on their head or they had a weird viral infection or they passed out cutting weight. The week prior to last week had a guy who had a seizure backstage, and that's why his fight got cancelled. There are a bunch of fighters now who have this bad juju surrounding them.

Yeah, Conor might go on a cocaine fueled adventure somewhere and flirt with the law. However, I don't have the inclination that out of nowhere his fight will get cancelled.