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March 2023 AEW Discussion


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3 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

When ppl talk about Rocky, I often suspect they're talking not about the pretty good first movie. Definitely not the second. Maybe the third. But most likely when ppl talk about Rocky they're talking about the 4th. I liked that movie as a kid, and get how it works as a fun bad movie, but have no desire to ever see it again. I also liked the 5th as a kid, but nobody wants to see that one again. The 6th had a fun trailer. I wanted to leave it at that, but a pal kinda sorta forced it upon me after getting me stoned. Even with a buzz I hated that 6th movie and applaud Phil Brooks or anybody else who has resisted this hard to avoid franchise. Even greater applause for anybody who has escaped the goddamn Star Wars universe. 

Thing is though, if you're doing it in a "look how cool I am" way that's not really worthy of praise. Like when CM Punk says well I haven't seen Rocky, the first thing someone should tell him is so fucking what? That's not even the point of the conversation. If someone is playing backyard football with you and you bring up the Immaculate Reception or Dwight Clark's catch or David Tyree's helmet catch in Super Bowl, they don't have to explain the ENTIRE GAME of football to you even if you are a non sports fan. I like Punk but that's kinda a douche chill "Alright...and?" moment. The right thing to do is just to say, "hey man, can you elaborate a bit further?". Not roll your eyes and say well I haven't seen the Rocky movies. 

As for the films themselves, it would depend on the age of the person you're talking to. III is wondering around that Skynet is self aware thing where they know it's a very lucrative franchise so the film has to have certain beats. IV basically lost the plot, but they were working with house money. 

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Note about the "continuing saga of why Miro isn't doing anything":

It kinda feels like the people posting online blaming Lana for the whole thing falls into the whole "it's the woman's fault that this guy is acting like this" trope. Like he wouldn't have such an ego if not for that blonde devil woman.

Reading the Wikipedia description does make the AEW Miro stint sound uninteresting.

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50 minutes ago, southofheavy said:

V is a comedic masterpiece. 

Also, wrestling, KISS and the Rocky films are three of my favorite things in life. Thanks, everyone. 

P.S. This reminds me: I need to go see Creed 3. 

Speaking of a time capsule, even as a diehard hardcore boxing fan, it's kinda hard to explain the Icarus too close to the sun, weird phenomenon that was Tommy Morrison. As the further we move from the early 90s, it gets harder and harder.

Now try to explain why he's the goddamn co-star of a tentpole, well known universally beloved franchise. Mr. T, I understand. Morrison didn't even have that cache in the boxing world. He had the WBO heavyweight title back when the WBO wasn't considered one of the major alphabet orgs in boxing.

I know Ronda Rousey was gonna be the star of the Roadhouse remake (before Holly Holm casted her spirit to the shadow realm) back when she was UFC champ that Jake Gyllenhaal is filming right now, but that would have been easier to explain to someone. 

I have no answer as to why and how he got that role other than he was just the latest great white hype. Other than that, I got nothing.

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7 minutes ago, Ace said:

Mr T wasn't well known before Rocky III, though.

 

T had the unique charisma though. Watch the press conference scene from Rocky III and it comes across immediately.

Morrison never even displayed that in boxing. Granted, they (HBO and his real life promoter Tony Holden) tried their best to downplay his partying (which was his undoing in more ways than one) in favor of this good old, down home Okie boy who just loves having fun. No one was like....movie star.

Gina Carano (pre antisemitic scandal) starring in a Steven Soderbergh film is wild too seeing as she has/had the acting chops of a wet cardboard box, but she was a bombshell from a visual aesthetic point of view. Crazy, but you still could see it.

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26 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Thing is though, if you're doing it in a "look how cool I am" way that's not really worthy of praise. Like when CM Punk says well I haven't seen Rocky, the first thing someone should tell him is so what fucking what? That's not even the point of the conversation. If someone is playing backyard football with you and you bring up the Immaculate Reception or Dwight Clark's catch or David Tyree's helmet catch in Super Bowl, they don't have to explain the ENTIRE GAME of football to you even if are a non sports fan. I like Punk but that's kinda a douche chill "Alright...and?" moment. The right thing to do is just to say, "hey man, can you elaborate a bit further?". Not roll your eyes and say well I haven't seen the Rocky movies. 

As for the films themselves, it would depend on the age of the person you're talking to. III is wondering around that Skynet is self aware thing where they know it's a very lucrative franchise so the film has to have certain beats. IV basically lost the plot, but they were working with house money. 

To be clear, my applause for Phil not watching the hard to avoid American Movie Syllabus, Rocky in particular, wasn't a 'Like' for his deleted instagram post. Perhaps I ought not to have included Punk at all, but then my post would've probably been better placed in the Movie discussion which isn't at all 'HOT!' 

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Now that I think about it? You know who permeated the exact same energy Mr. T had as Clubber Lang and would have been a better fit than Morrison? Early 90s James Toney before he realized KFC was a thing and ate himself in boxing obscurity for a few years. I know he was like only a handful of months away from knocking out and upsetting Michael Nunn by the time Rocky V got released, but that's a much better fit than Morrison. His shit talk was the stuff of legend. Scary to most of white America? Check. I mean even when he got fat later in his career and he started slurring his speech he was and still is a tremendous and charismatic shit talker. I am guessing that's what got him the brief cameo in Ali as Joe Frazier.

Maybe Sly and the producers probably didn't want to go down the Clubber Lang route again, but he did the black protege thing eventually with Creed.

I am just watched a split screen interview with James and Roy Jones Jr. before their historical fight in November 1994 and the last two or three minutes is great with Roy dropping a "I'll be your huckleberry!". That's another one for the pop culture time capsule.

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Didn’t Mr T win that NBC (what’d we now call a reality show) Worlds Toughest Bouncer contest before Rocky 3? I can remember seeing him win that by busting thru a door. (Unless it’s a false memory) 

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People have to remember this was before we would see crazy looking SOBs on TV so anyone who looked like Mr. T at the time was gonna turn some heads. It's the old pro wrestling airport test. It also helped he was a bit of a character himself.

When all that played out and the novelty wore off, he was just another person who got spit out by Hollywood. However, it was clearly right time and right place.

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37 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Didn’t Mr T win that NBC (what’d we now call a reality show) Worlds Toughest Bouncer contest before Rocky 3? I can remember seeing him win that by busting thru a door. (Unless it’s a false memory) 

Yeah I remember him from that before A-Team and Rocky III.

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3 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

it's kinda hard to explain the Icarus too close to the sun, weird phenomenon that was Tommy Morrison

The KC area tends to latch onto any famous people who spend like 5 minutes here, so when Tommy Morrison beats George Foreman, that's something you hear about around here even if you're not really following boxing

Then Kemper was the site of the Tommy Morrison/Tim Tomashek fight (which was supposed to be Tommy Morrison fighting Michael Williams in a Tommy Gunn vs Union Cane fight 3 years post-Rocky V). Later on the Star got one of the stories about Tommy being an HIV/AIDS denialist as he was dying because of HIV/AIDS.

I think Tommy was the last solid attempt at the "he's a white heavyweight" thing before all the white heavyweights became boring European dudes.

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22 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

The KC area tends to latch onto any famous people who spend like 5 minutes here, so when Tommy Morrison beats George Foreman, that's something you hear about around here even if you're not really following boxing

Then Kemper was the site of the Tommy Morrison/Tim Tomashek fight (which was supposed to be Tommy Morrison fighting Michael Williams in a Tommy Gunn vs Union Cane fight 3 years post-Rocky V). Later on the Star got one of the stories about Tommy being an HIV/AIDS denialist as he was dying because of HIV/AIDS.

I think Tommy was the last solid attempt at the "he's a white heavyweight" thing before all the white heavyweights became boring European dudes.

For a brief moment, there was Joe Mesi but he had health issues after a fight right after the hype started and that was the end of him. So yeah, Morrison was the last American born white guy I remember getting that level of hype for an extended amount of time. Just like Mesi though and Cooney before those two, he got a LOT of hype based on being semi competent and demolishing guys (the ones who were known) that were well past their prime.

I get if Sly and the crew were hedging their bets that he was gonna be this major star. 1989 going into 1991 for HW boxing was wacky with Tyson being in the news every week for something, then the Buster Douglas fight happens, then Evander beats Buster, and we get the fallout from all that. He finally fought a guy who was in his prime in Ray Mercer (who going into that fight got pissed off about how Tommy was being promoted and his own payoff) and got absolutely anesthetized for his troubles. To me, that signaled the end of Morrison being a true contender if he ever was one.

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Someone pointed this out to me elsewhere but with Punk referring to it as a Rocky III angle, with Rocky III being the one where Rocky gets destroyed, goes away to train like hell and rediscover his roots before coming back and avenging himself... that basically suggests loudly that the first Mox/Punk match was supposed to take place much earlier than it did. Now whether it being delayed to the point where it was so close to the ppv match that it was at best confusing (at worst actively dumb) was because he wasn't cleared and they were rushing him back or he didn't want to do it and was dragging his feet I'll leave to better men than me to argue... but if true chalk this up as yet another time Tony just would not alter his plans no matter what even if the timing no longer makes any sense.

The other note is that Tony looks even worse with how the press conference unfolded. This all coming out of nowhere and catching him so off guard that he lets Punk attack everyone while grinning like an idiot is bad but at least somewhat understandable. At this point it's clear a bunch was going on leading into that ppv and he wasn't caught off guard at all (unless he's a moron, which I'm not sure is fair), which means he was straight negligent.

 

Anyways I thought Rocky Balboa was good too, generally it was a fun run of flicks.

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1 minute ago, username said:

Someone pointed this out to me elsewhere but with Punk referring to it as a Rocky III angle, with Rocky III being the one where Rocky gets destroyed, goes away to train like hell and rediscover his roots before coming back and avenging himself... that basically suggests loudly that the first Mox/Punk match was supposed to take place much earlier than it did. Now whether it being delayed to the point where it was so close to the ppv match that it was at best confusing (at worst actively dumb) was because he wasn't cleared and they were rushing him back or he didn't want to do it and was dragging his feet I'll leave to better men than me to argue... but if true chalk this up as yet another time Tony just would not alter his plans no matter what even if the timing no longer makes any sense.

The other note is that Tony looks even worse with how the press conference unfolded. This all coming out of nowhere and catching him so off guard that he lets Punk attack everyone while grinning like an idiot is bad but at least somewhat understandable. At this point it's clear a bunch was going on leading into that ppv and he wasn't caught off guard at all (unless he's a moron, which I'm not sure is fair), which means he was straight negligent.

 

Anyways I thought Rocky Balboa was good too, generally it was a fun run of flicks.

Not necessarily cause you don't have to do it in real time like a movie. I am not a big fan of the lose and then find your hunger/desire stuff, which is why I wasn't a fan of the suggestion if AEW signed Mercedes that should come in to get squashed by Jade. 70% of the people who debut in AEW lose their first or second match, and it automatically kills the luster. How about have them win and please the fans? Now in Punk's case, it's fine but I think they did it in the most WWF Superstars way possible. They did it in the middle of the show IIRC and then you're kinda left with this weird taste in your mouth.  It was surprising but it wasn't going to have the staying power.

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I was fine with it, because every now and then you need your surprising quick finish to keep fans on their toes.

 

If I was running a promotion I'd have a big match end quick like that at least a couple times a year, like Hiromu/KUSHIDA style.

 

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6 minutes ago, Jenalysis said:

I was fine with it, because every now and then you need your surprising quick finish to keep fans on their toes.

 

If I was running a promotion I'd have a big match end quick like that at least a couple times a year, like Hiromu/KUSHIDA style.

 

I totally agree with that sentiment, but for a world title match? You need to go off the air with that. They did it and then rolled on with rest of the show. I honestly totally forgot about it by the end of the show.

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I think the general consensus on Reddit (yeah) was that the squash would have happened sometime after Forbidden Door, to legitimize Mox’s reign. Then Punk would come back to be the conquering hero in Chicago at All Out and win the title back. But Punk’s Instagram implies that Mox didn’t want to job, but he ended up doing it anyway at that PPV, so who the fuck knows.

This is all just really sad. I’m not entirely sure Punk is 100% to blame, but he takes a huge share of it for sure.

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3 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

For a brief moment, there was Joe Mesi but he had health issues after a fight right after the hype started and that was the end of him. So yeah, Morrison was the last American born white guy I remember getting that level of hype for an extended amount of time. Just like Mesi though and Cooney before those two, he got a LOT of hype based on being semi competent and demolishing guys (the ones who were known) that were well past their prime.

Oh man, Mesi was such a disappointment. After Jirov he was supposed to face a washed-up Tyson at the Bills stadium in front of 60,000 people, and then after that challenge Hasim Rahman for the title in either Buffalo or Rahman's home of Rochester. He even flew to meet Rocky Marciano's family and got their blessing to beat Marciano's undefeated streak.

Rahman would have been an easy win, but I think either Klitschko would have murdered him

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19 minutes ago, Casey said:

This is all just really sad. I’m not entirely sure Punk is 100% to blame, but he takes a huge share of it for sure.

I'm a firm believer that Jericho and the Bucks have been politicking like crazy, but Punk has done himself no favors. All he had to do was keep his head down and mouth shut publicly. Instead, he took every single piece of bait, hung Tony and the company out to dry, and now this. 

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4 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Oh man, Mesi was such a disappointment. After Jirov he was supposed to face a washed-up Tyson at the Bills stadium in front of 60,000 people, and then after that challenge Hasim Rahman for the title in either Buffalo or Rahman's home of Rochester. He even flew to meet Rocky Marciano's family and got their blessing to beat Marciano's undefeated streak.

Rahman would have been an easy win, but I think either Klitschko would have murdered him

That sounds like regular delusional promoter stuff. Everyone was going to fight Tyson in and around the time he left Don King. Plus, Rahman had already lost the titles back to Lennox and was going through a tough stretch by the time Mesi would have fought Jirov.

Rahman wasn't the greatest but he wasn't the easiest matchup. He was slow and lumbering especially once after the 2nd Lewis fight, but he wasn't a pushover. Plus, Jirov was a cruiserweight and less than a year removed from that absolutely crazy, barnburner fight with (speak of the devil) James Toney that probably took years off Jirov's career as a top fighter and effectively ruined him physically. 

Yeah, he doesn't beat either Vitali or Wladimir. In a talent depraved era, he probably would have lost a boring, pedestrian decision to Chris Byrd like seemingly a bunch of the HW pretenders did at the time.

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