AEW/ROH Finances, Ratings, etc.

[Dog]

Tony Khan has said, more or less, that WBD wants Collision to do better than the movies they'd usually program in that spot. The movies usually did something like 0.12 or 0.14 in the demo, so the average demo bouncing back to 0.21 here has got to be a relief for everyone involved. 

[TheVileOne]

7 hours ago, Dog said:

Tony Khan has said, more or less, that WBD wants Collision to do better than the movies they'd usually program in that spot. The movies usually did something like 0.12 or 0.14 in the demo, so the average demo bouncing back to 0.21 here has got to be a relief for everyone involved. 

Except now they have to compete with UFC and WWE PLEs on Saturdays.

[Dog]

And the movies previously programmed at that time didn't?

Edited July 12, 2023 by Dog

[Elsalvajeloco]

How much is AEW really competing with UFC? The ABC cards that they rarely do are on really in the afternoons. There are very few TV cards on ESPN that would draw a casual eye or a legit wrestling fans away from either WWE or AEW. So we're at best talking about 4 or 5 maybe stellar PPV cards out of 52 weeks in a calendar year. Their biggest competition is going to be whenever you have a marquee college football game in primetime on in the fall.  

That said, 7/29 is going to be a very tough night cause that's both Poirier vs. Gaethje II AND Crawford vs. Spence. It's dumb for UFC to run on that night let alone anyone else.

[Casey]

I know this is a crazy notion, but.. it’s almost like WBD knows about the competition Collision faces with real sports and WWE, and their expectations of the show might not be what random internet posters think it should be.

[twiztor]

9 hours ago, Casey said:

I know this is a crazy notion, but.. it’s almost like WBD knows about the competition Collision faces with real sports and WWE, and their expectations of the show might not be what random internet posters think it should be.

who asked you to bring logic into an argument about ratings? i only want to read doom & gloom, or 7 star praise. NO INBETWEENIES!

[Technico Support]

I guess those reports that the network is very happy with AEW's programming and flexibility, and that they're currently in negotiations for a new deal with a big increase, can just be ignored.  It's more fun to push RATINGS WARZ~! narratives like it's still 1998 and that technology hasn't radically changed the "TV" business (including industry benchmarks for "success") in the last 25 years.  By all accounts, the network has their own metrics that they're very happy with.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Technico Support

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

2 hours ago, Technico Support said:

I guess those reports that the network is very happy with AEW's programming and flexibility, and that they're currently in negotiations for a new deal with a big increase, can just be ignored.  It's more fun to push RATINGS WARZ~! narratives like it's still 1998 and that technology hasn't radically changed the "TV" business (including industry benchmarks for "success") in the last 25 years.  By all accounts, the network has their own metrics that they're very happy with.

And it's metrics we never see chatter about. I should just write a macro detailing that networks care about live+3, live+7, and viewer retention rate just as much as they care about viewership in demo at this point.

[Technico Support]

19 minutes ago, Sparkleface said:

And it's metrics we never see chatter about. I should just write a macro detailing that networks care about live+3, live+7, and viewer retention rate just as much as they care about viewership in demo at this point.

Seriously.  I doubt any exec is wringing their hands about live viewers DVR'ing Collision in order to watch a WWE PLE (I feel gross writing "PLE") once every whenever. 

People still acting like it's a fight for live viewers is crazy.  Either they're bad faith posters or they just don't want to admit that WWF vs WCW was a QUARTER CENTURY AGO (shit, I certainly hate to think about that) and technology moves FAST.  But this is like using AM radio metrics to examine cable back in the late 80s.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

2 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Seriously.  I doubt any exec is wringing their hands about live viewers DVR'ing Collision in order to watch a WWE PLE (I feel gross writing "PLE") once every whenever. 

People still acting like it's a fight for live viewers is crazy.  Either they're bad faith posters or they just don't want to admit that WWF vs WCW was a QUARTER CENTURY AGO (shit, I certainly hate to think about that) and technology moves FAST.  But this is like using AM radio metrics to examine cable back in the late 80s.

Oh they aren't. Most TV execs don't care about DVR viewership compared to live viewership as long as you watch the ads in the shows, and anywhere between a third to two-thirds of people do watch the ads in a show on DVR because they don't bother fast-forwarding, and the one company that made autoskipping ads (TiVo) is on its ass and hardly anyone uses them anymore. And if you're watching via on demand instead of DVR, you can't skip the ads anyway.

That's why viewer retention rate is always so important. If you go to an ad buyer and say "70% of our audience watches the entirety of our two hour show", the ad buyer isn't going to care if it's live or via DVR or on demand, they're going to care that 70% of an audience is watching for the whole two hours, so that means your ads are likely going to get seen. Period. Point blank. If that number is even higher once you factor in DVR viewership then you might as well have a parade.

If WBD is making enough money off ad buys to counterbalance the content fee they're paying AEW then they're going to keep putting AEW on the air, pure and simple. People going "b-b-b-but a million! Tony needs a million or WBD will hate them!" don't get what the game is.

[Coletti]

WBD payed Tony Kahn to give me more Orange Cassidy. Literally Zaslav's only redeeming factor. 

[Log]

Wait. TiVo still exists!??!

[Zimbra]

Fightful is reporting that WBD is pressuring AEW to increase the number of yearly PPVs and wants them to move to a monthly model.  I assume this would go along with them moving them onto MAX but the article doesn't specify that.

[Dolphman 3000]

4 minutes ago, Zimbra said:

Fightful is reporting that WBD is pressuring AEW to increase the number of yearly PPVs and wants them to move to a monthly model.  I assume this would go along with them moving them onto MAX but the article doesn't specify that.

Zaslav just dragging Tony around by the balls and squeezing for more content

Only way I could see it working without burning everyone out would be to start shooting Dynamite/Collision together on Wednesdays, make Rampage a recap show, and cancel ROH

[odessasteps]

Seems like a weird deal. If WBD puts them on Max, they would no longer be PPVs. If they run more PPVs, WBD wouldn't get the money. 

[Casey]

Except they would, because Bleacher Report is owned by WBD, and I’m pretty sure that’s where the majority of their US PPV sales comes from instead of through cable providers.

And if you want to get technical, none of these are “pay per view” (unless you buy through your cable box) since they’re buy to own. Even on FITE that’s how it is.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

2 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Seems like a weird deal. If WBD puts them on Max, they would no longer be PPVs. If they run more PPVs, WBD wouldn't get the money. 

I'd be super surprised if there was no data driven research done before potentially making this move - for example (and this is total speculation, with made up numbers):

100,000 BR buys at $50 a head x 5 PPVs annually = 25000000 minus whatever the cable company's cut is

Vs.

75,000 new Max subscribers at 15.99 a month = 14391000 pure profit without traditional PPV getting a cut

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

2 hours ago, Log said:

Wait. TiVo still exists!??!

Barely! They're still reliant on CableCARD technology, which is extraordinarily unreliable. They also tried forcing pre-roll ads on customers a few years back which went over about as well as you'd expect (if the whole purpose of sticking with TiVo was the automatic ad skipping, then why on earth would you want to deal with a pre-roll ad before something you recorded?).

I much preferred the interface and structure to my cable company's DVR, but when my TiVo died last year I cut the cord entirely and switched over to Hulu's live TV, which I like even better. I don't know what that says about either company, or me for that matter.

[Elsalvajeloco]

I love that the PFL guy put PFL on there. LOL.

But if he can do that, AEW is definitely on there.

[John E. Dynamite]

1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I love that the PFL guy put PFL on there. LOL.

But if he can do that, AEW is definitely on there.

To all Sunday-morning prognosticators - is the WWE re-upping in 2025 a bad thing? Or is it good because that's the year all these networks are gonna allocate funds for other deals they probably won't get? Or do they have more value than the superior NASCAR viewrship/ less value than the inferior UFC prelim viewership in ways that my gin soaked mark brain doesn't understand?

[Curt McGirt]

20 hours ago, Log said:

Wait. TiVo still exists!??!

YiVo does. 

[twiztor]

13 hours ago, John E. Dynamite said:

To all Sunday-morning prognosticators - is the WWE re-upping in 2025 a bad thing? Or is it good because that's the year all these networks are gonna allocate funds for other deals they probably won't get? Or do they have more value than the superior NASCAR viewrship/ less value than the inferior UFC prelim viewership in ways that my gin soaked mark brain doesn't understand?

i think re-upping in an "off year" would normally be good. the networks that didn't get NFL, NBA, etc. have money to spend and would be more likely to promote their own "exclusive". But if it's only a year or two deal, you could be potentially looking at trouble since more of the rights fees will be up for grabs then. 

and that's not even factoring in some sort of combo WWE/UFC rights deal, which could just be gigantic.

[Dolphman 3000]

[NoFistsJustFlips]

On 7/12/2023 at 2:11 PM, Sparkleface said:

...anywhere between a third to two-thirds of people do watch the ads in a show on DVR because they don't bother fast-forwarding...

Wow. Literal monsters. Anyone who doesn't fast forward through commercials on DVR is an idiot and a savage.

/Dennis Reynolds

[Dolphman 3000]