The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries

[Cobra Commander]

watching the episode now and intro of Abdullah with the covid mask coming off was a solid way to bring him into the episode

also, Abdullah the Butcher claiming he was discovered by a wrestling promoter while teaching senior citizens martial arts... yeah.. that sounds like a hell of a scene

watching an old skinny Abdullah talk almost feels like i'm seeing something I shouldn't be seeing

edit: the layout of this episode is very non-linear. There are also some parallels between Abdullah and Jimmy Snuka (more so with a lack of education and how they reacted when asked about certain things). I'm not equating the spread of Hep-C to murder. If the story told in this episode is right, it sounds like Abby was a bit of a carny in search of a carnival before he got into wrestling, and Hannibal isn't gonna win in a court of public opinion among wrestling fans because he's going after someone much much better thought of than him.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Cobra Commander

[BrianS81177]

Abby is no saint (iirc Kamala said in his book about Abby costing him bookings) but Hannibal is a soulless whore who will do or say anything for just a shred of fame. 

[The Green Meanie]

I watched the Adonis episode last night. I kinda wished they had shown more footage of him with Dick Murdoch, those segments were pretty good.

The crash got me thinking - (as far as the series goes) have they mentioned covering the Joey Marella/Harvey Whippleman crash?

[Cobra Commander]

As for the “I saw him read off a menu" response to wearing Abby claim to be illiterate

1) there’s probably a confusion between not being able to read anything and not being able to read at a certain level

2) I’ve read no shortage of stories of baseball players in the minor leagues who didn’t know English but could order at restaurants because they either know what the place serves or they hear somebody else order and picking that food too.

I’m fairly confident I could order food at a McDonalds in a foreign country even without speaking the language either by pointing at a part of the menu or knowing that McDonalds has cheeseburgers.

DSOTR did a super condensed version of how Abby broke in which is their usual for how they handle some details to get it all in under an hour.

Also the caregiver is a caregiver, not a detective. They’re not in the business of being skeptical there. It wouldn’t shock me if Abdullah the Butcher was a charming man.

[zendragon]

I’m reminded of Gary Micheal Cappetta story of riding with Abby, basically his whole MO is to assume everyone is trying to work you so you have to work them first

[Dolphman 3000]

I've gotta wonder if Hannibal doesn't file lawsuit against WWE and Abdullah, if he eventually gets in with WWE a few years later - the Harvoni "cure" for Hepatitis C became widely available by 2014

He would have only been 31 then

[Cobra Commander]

I suspect that Hannibal's skillset probably didn't become more alluring to major promotions in the 2010s than it was in the 2000s.

But there is a certain amount of "I say i'm over this but I am definitely not" in the Hannibal segments.

[Elsalvajeloco]

At first, I had no real interest in the Abby episode other than a history lesson. Now, I feel I need to track this down.

[hammerva]

20 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

 If the story told in this episode is right, it sounds like Abby was a bit of a carny in search of a carnival before he got into wrestling, and Hannibal isn't gonna win in a court of public opinion among wrestling fans because he's going after someone much much better thought of than him.

As horrible a rep Abby has been, the reputation recently of Hannibal has been much worse.  I mean you cant complain about how your career was ruined and then damn near shoot beat a ref into a bloody pulp

Was Hannibal even that good of a wrestler that the WWE would even give him some 3 figure FCW contract?  Working dark match against Heidenreich isnt enough for me

Edited July 20, 2023 by hammerva

[Curt McGirt]

Let's not forget that Abby rode with Foley and Foley loved him. The man held in a fart for a four hour drive because his wife was in the car. 

[hammerva]

The other thing is if Abby had HEP-C and passed it on to Hannibal, he would have had to pass it near the time of him working guys like Hannibal because holy fuck Puerto Rico, Japan, and WCW would have been an ocean of HEP-C

[zendragon]

I didn’t think Hannibal or Abby came of particularly well but once again Lance Storm is the voice or reason 

[Cobra Commander]

not sure if Brian Last doing his Hannibal impersonation voice is a good or bad thing to come out of this episode of DSOTR

[Elsalvajeloco]

14 hours ago, hammerva said:

The other thing is if Abby had HEP-C and passed it on to Hannibal, he would have had to pass it near the time of him working guys like Hannibal because holy fuck Puerto Rico, Japan, and WCW would have been an ocean of HEP-C

I think that's likely the case because if you're working in the indies (or in Japan), it's a little bit more prevalent to do it the more unconventional way which is having someone else do it. Now I don't buy it that Hannibal necessarily didn't want to do it as much as that was just part of an Abdullah match when he could barely move in 15 years prior to that incident let alone when it took place. Now that said, with or without Abdullah, wrestling prior to a more civilized time was more inviting to potential spread of anything cause rings were rarely clean and blood testing outside of maybe like Oregon or some other jurisdiction was non-existent. Remember when Austin caught that bad case of staph and showed up with that giant cast on his arm at KotR 98? That was also when WWF started using blood more and more. So you got dirty mats, more blood being used meaning people with open cuts working frequently with others who are also bleeding, and sort of this somewhat understandable but still weirdly irrational, negative stance against commissions forcing regulation on pro wrestling. This is when wrestling is sort of it's own worst enemy.

That said, having just watched this episode, it's hard to sympathize much for any party in this particular episode just cause blading being an art doesn't take away the barbaric nature of it. Abby not being able to read and write, if even partly true, doesn't make him ignorant to the fact relying so much on blood could be entirely injurious to everyone in the ring. I must be imagining things because did not Abby wrestle through the entire HIV/AIDS paranoia, different periods where non hardway blood was banned in different places across the U.S. and certain promotions, and you were fired if you did without permission from high up (see Blacktop Bully/Dustin Rhodes from Uncensored 95 as one of those examples) or did it on TV. Didn't Abby get mega juice on the Heroes of Wrestling PPV with One Man Gang when he wasn't suppose to do? Just cause you live by your own goddamn rules doesn't mean you escape real, actual rules and laws. You don't have be able to read someone verbally saying "don't fucking do that". 

While folks may get worked by the broke, sad old man in bad shape routine, Abby's brother and Hugo (and Foley at the end) made great points which made it very clear that Abby isn't just this stupid person who is easily taken advantage of and failed to maneuver and make moves in pro wrestling. We cannot make it sound like he was one of these women who had to deal with Moolah's outfit cause Moolah had the entire game locked down if someone wanted to be a female pro wrestler for like half a century. Those women had it ROUGH. Abby clearly knew his way around the business and how to make it work for him. There are lots of wrestlers who unfortunately were bad with their money or made poor financial decisions. I entirely sympathize with that plight as a whole because many of them were/are my heroes. However, not Abdullah specifically. Like Hugo mentioned, Abby played a hand in the success of Puerto Rico behind the scenes PLUS not mentioned on this episode he was responsible for getting folks booked in Japan. There are cases were Abby did people dirty cause he either wanted to be the lead foreign horse for like Baba or someone else and didn't want to give other folks shine or he would pretty much freeze them out of those opportunities That don't sit right with me.

Karma comes at you eventually. It might not be quick, but it's sure as hell is sudden. If I can quote Christoph Waltz as Dr. King Schultz in Django Unchained in the scene in which Django hesitates to shoot a criminal on the run who is enjoying a moment with his young son on their farm, "*That* is who Smitty Bacall is. If Smitty Bacall wanted to start a farm at 22, they would never have printed that. But Smitty Bacall wanted to rob stagecoaches, and he didn't mind killing people to do it." We know who Abdullah the Butcher is. Lets not pretend he is just some old man that Devon Nicholson is taking advantage of who happened to be doing his first bladejob on someone and himself ever. The one decent, solid point Hannibal made was Abby had been doing crazy, outlandish shit that wouldn't fly for several DECADES. However, cause pro wrestling has been the wild, wild west even till this day, it is tolerated. Okay, if you want to babyface Abby and say he is a less shitty human being and doesn't conduct subpar online shoot interviews, I don't know if I can argue that. That's not the point though. Larry Shreve is an intelligent man who was able to make money at his craft and stay viable longer than he probably should have. He's also someone who was able to use some of that intelligence to bend the rules to his will. That's caught up to damn near everyone in pro wrestling even the most good natured and well intentioned people. Why should Abby escape that just cause he's a broken down old man now? Ole Anderson has been in bad health for what seems like a decade now....I don't see people trying to ardently defend Alan Rogowski. Ole is a hard, stubborn son of a bitch. Still a legend, but you cannot mention Ole and try to separate that from him. That's what makes him Ole Anderson. We cannot turn Abdullah the Butcher into Mother Theresa just cause Devon Nicholson is a terrible person. Come on now. 

 

[hammerva]

I could be wrong but wasn't the reason why Abby's Rib and Chinese food restaurant died because of health and safety violations?

[J.T.]

1 hour ago, hammerva said:

I could be wrong but wasn't the reason why Abby's Rib and Chinese food restaurant died because of health and safety violations?

He shuttered the place in 2016, IIRC.  I was always under the impression that he could no longer afford to meet operating costs due to him losing the lawsuit to Hannibal in 2014.  Same reason that he had to sell all of his personal memorabilia including his HoF ring.

The Hep-C certainly did not help matters.

Edited July 21, 2023 by J.T.

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, hammerva said:

I could be wrong but wasn't the reason why Abby's Rib and Chinese food restaurant died because of health and safety violations?

Likely!  I heard Hep-C was one of the options on the Coca Cola Freestyle machine there.

Nice to see the Fight Club man titty fx guy got some work in this ep.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Technico Support

[J.T.]

Oh and yeah.  Fuck Hannibal.  I love how when he talked about the iron spike incident, he says "It hit him (ie. the spike) and it did some damage." instead of "I hit him and I did some damage."  Dude still does not claim ownership of the harm he caused and yet he blames Abdullah for the loss of a WWE career that might not have materialized in the first place.  That is really shitty

Edited July 21, 2023 by J.T.

[J.T.]

On 7/19/2023 at 3:23 AM, Cobra Commander said:

As for the “I saw him read off a menu" response to wearing Abby claim to be illiterate

People who are functionally illiterate often train themselves to recognize words and phrases by sight in order to mask their lack of comprehension. 

They can understand the associated context even if they have no ability to read or write, so it does not shock me that Abby was able to order food or sign a contract.  If you are in a restaurant and have a menu in your hands, "chicken" is bound to be one of the words in all of that jumbled text.

Edited July 21, 2023 by J.T.

[Elsalvajeloco]

You want to absolute lose your shirt? Get in the restaurant business. Keep in mind, Atlanta ain't exactly Olive Branch, Mississippi. There are places to eat every ten feet in every direction.  Atlanta is a place where if you're in the restaurant game, your word of mouth better be strong as hell to survive. There are way too many options. I only heard of the place cause I've been a wrestling fan all my life. I don't ever remember it getting rave reviews.

[Web Conn]

Someone should have told Hannibal about glass houses and not throwing stones 

[odessasteps]

In theory, you could have made the restaurant into a wrestling tourist destination,  like an American Ribera Steak House, esp in Atlanta, home to one of the 2 major US promotions.

[Cobra Commander]

2 hours ago, J.T. said:

People who are functionally illiterate often train themselves to recognize words and phrases by sight in order to mask their lack of comprehension. 

They can understand the associated context even if they have no ability to read or write, so it does not shock me that Abby was able to order food or sign a contract.  If you are in a restaurant and have a menu in your hands, "chicken" is bound to be one of the words in all of that jumbled text.

Also menus tend to have pictures

[Elsalvajeloco]

20 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

In theory, you could have made the restaurant into a wrestling tourist destination,  like an American Ribera Steak House, esp in Atlanta, home to one of the 2 major US promotions.

I could have sworn WCW had a restaurant at some point or tried to jump into that world.

However, after the WWF's one failed at the height of their powers in the late 90s/early2000s, I don't know if the tourist theme is a hit when the entire city is tourist based. I think if you're going to have a restaurant, a moderate size college town would probably be your best bet just you know during either football, basketball, and/or baseball season, you're guaranteed a certain stretch of business and have time to prep and gear everything to that. In Atlanta, New Orleans, D.C., or similar cities, there is so much competition with massive overhead especially when it comes soul food or American cuisine.

[Dolphman 3000]

27 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

In theory, you could have made the restaurant into a wrestling tourist destination,  like an American Ribera Steak House, esp in Atlanta, home to one of the 2 major US promotions.

Ilio DiPaolo's in Buffalo deserves a mention