Games of Thrones Unsullied thread

[J.T.]

Ramsay is not weak nor is he hasty.  He's been biding his time and waiting for the proper opportunity to become head of the Bolton household and Lord of Winterfell. 

He went along with the marriage to Sansa because wedding a Stark heir would give him legitimacy, but leopards do not change their stripes and Ramsay could not keep his sadistic streak under wraps for long.  He also did not count on Theon to find his spine and get Sansa out of Dodge. 

With that option ruined and a legit Bolton heir on the way, Ramsay had no choice but to move up his timetable.  He has the support of the houses with the most military might and with Sansa on the run, he has an excuse to march on Castle Black and try to consolidate his power in the North.

[Raziel]

He's just painfully unaware of the shit storm he's about to march into.  Which isn't really his fault.

[Craig H]

But it is going to be amazing.

I was talking to my friends about the best way to kill Ramsay. We're just hoping it isn't underwhelming. Jon Snow or Sansa should get to do the deed, but we would settle for Wun Wun going puny god on Ramsay.

[Mistah Na1m4rk]

Ramsay Snow is a silly, plot-armored bitch.  Screw him and his "20 good men" and his shirtless slaying of hardened Ironborn reavers.  I hope he gets killed choking on a grape.

[J.T.]

33 minutes ago, Craig H said:

But it is going to be amazing.

I was talking to my friends about the best way to kill Ramsay. We're just hoping it isn't underwhelming. Jon Snow or Sansa should get to do the deed, but we would settle for Wun Wun going puny god on Ramsay.

In a perfect world, Arya would be the one to cut Ramsay's throat.  Her primary motivation for becoming an assassin was to be skilled enough to avenge the deaths in her family.

Funny thing is that by the time she's trained up to be an assassin and is ready to go, there will be no one left alive to seek revenge on for the insults to her family's honor..

Either that or when Arya finally has the tools she needs, she will be truly nameless and matters concerning her life as Arya Stark won't matter anymore.  Perhaps that was the intent all along?

I think it is hilarious with all of this ridiculous talk of GoT plot payoffs  mattering so much (JON SNOW MUST LIVE! R + L = J DAMMIT~!) and all of this DESTINY MUST BE FULFILLED~! rubbish, this particular one slips off of everyone's radar and it may turn out that was never Arya's destiny at all? 

That's why you let storytellers tell the story.

[bink_winkleman]

I think Ramsay is going to take Castle Black and we might get an entire episode of him chopping a giant to pieces and raping Sansa and Brienne onscreen. Eventually he gets killed by a Walker.

This is after Olly refuses to forgive Snow, flees, happens into the Boltons' army and tells them everything to expect.

[Dolfan in NYC]

Dude, George RR Martin isn't writing the show any more.

(Which explains how in two episodes Ramsey has become the greatest heel in the show's history.)  

[Craig H]

Ramsay is not on Arya's list, but Cersei is.

One aspect of Arya's quest that I'm curious about is if Ja'qen tests her by assigning her to kill someone on the side of the Lord of the Light. 

[Mistah Na1m4rk]

Maaaaaan, fuck this show, fuck Ramsay, fuck the Faith Militant, fuck it alllllll!

 

 

[Brysynner]

So I think the ultimate test for Arya will be to kill Sansa to see if she really is just a girl with no name or will she cling to being Arya Stark. I mean when it comes to worst case scenarios they usually involve Sansa's worst case scenario and any time she is happy it does not last long. And unless Brienne is going to rape her, I think the only indignity she could face left would be to fight her sister to the death

[J.T.]

13 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Ramsay is not on Arya's list, but Cersei is.

One aspect of Arya's quest that I'm curious about is if Ja'qen tests her by assigning her to kill someone on the side of the Lord of the Light. 

Typo on my part.  I meant to say, Walder Frey.

I suppose the point I was trying to make in all of my rambling is that things don't have to turn out the way readers think they should and when it does, you're not telling your own story anymore.

Nothing said that Arya had to follow through on her intent and interpretations of blue roses growing out of walls do not necessarily have to equal "Jon Snow" but people assign value to shit that may or may not have value and then we all have to travel down the same fucking rabbit hole because fans want shit to turn out the way they want it to.

18 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Dude, George RR Martin isn't writing the show any more.

(Which explains how in two episodes Ramsey has become the greatest heel in the show's history.)  

He probably should be.  Second episode was good but we'll see what fan service gets us.

 

[bink_winkleman]

11 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Dude, George RR Martin isn't writing the show any more.

(Which explains how in two episodes Ramsey has become the greatest heel in the show's history.)  

Super morbid/awesomely brilliant Ramsay is more of B+W's muse, no? I haven't read the books (and won't unless he finishes them, by golly), but my understanding was that the character was more subdued and "off-screen" there.

I have no idea where the Arya thing is going, but I'll be excited if it manages to go anywhere. I expect the show is going to keep moving at this turbo pace, so everything should start unfolding.

[Raziel]

Ya know, until probably next week, the big Snow thing might still be a book spoiler that people don't know about.

 

That, it's very likely that GRRM intended that all along and it's not just a fan service thing.

[BobbyWhioux]

Ramsay's screen time is far more significant than his page time, yes.

 

[supremebve]

Just now, J.T. said:

Typo on my part.  I meant to say, Walder Frey.

I suppose the point I was trying to make in all of my rambling is that things don't have to turn out the way readers think they should and when it does, you're not telling your own story anymore.

That isn't true.  The reason that readers think certain things should happen is 100% based on how GRRM has written the story.  If he spent five books setting up Jon being a messiah figure, and then not make him the messiah GRRM would be betraying the story he is telling, not betraying the expectations of his readers.  We all believed that Jon was coming back, because it was the only logical conclusion to what had happened up until that point.  We know that people can be resurrected, we know that wargs can extend their lives in an animal, we know the prophecy of Azor Ahai being reborn, we know that Melissandre stopped seeing Stannis in her fires and could only see Snow, we know the main mystery of the entire series is Jon's parentage.  All of those things point to Jon coming back, leaving him dead would betray all of that set up.  All of those things were pretty clearly set up to tell the story of Jon and how he eventually becomes the savior of Westeros.  Killing Jon and leaving him dead would not make narrative sense.  

[J.T.]

2 minutes ago, Raziel403 said:

That, it's very likely that GRRM intended that all along and it's not just a fan service thing.

It is hilarious that everyone seems to know the old man personally and are aware of his intentions.

That being said, it would be very GRRM-ish for death to be a red herring, although it is very telling in the narrative that Jon is killed off while nothing remarkably tragic happens to Dany after Khal Dargo dies.

[Raziel]

3 minutes ago, J.T. said:

It is hilarious that everyone seems to know the old man personally and are aware of his intentions.

 

Yet you're doing the same thing insisting that everything involving Jon is fan serivce and not his original intention.

[J.T.]

1 hour ago, supremebve said:

That isn't true.  The reason that readers think certain things should happen is 100% based on how GRRM has written the story.  If he spent five books setting up Jon being a messiah figure, and then not make him the messiah GRRM would be betraying the story he is telling, not betraying the expectations of his readers.  We all believed that Jon was coming back, because it was the only logical conclusion to what had happened up until that point.  We know that people can be resurrected, we know that wargs can extend their lives in an animal, we know the prophecy of Azor Ahai being reborn, we know that Melissandre stopped seeing Stannis in her fires and could only see Snow, we know the main mystery of the entire series is Jon's parentage.  All of those things point to Jon coming back, leaving him dead would betray all of that set up.  All of those things were pretty clearly set up to tell the story of Jon and how he eventually becomes the savior of Westeros.  Killing Jon and leaving him dead would not make narrative sense.  

How does all of that random shit equate to Jon's death not making narrative sense?

For starters, let's look at the prophecy of Azor Ahai itself:

"According to prophecy, our champion will be reborn to wake dragons from stone and reforge the great sword Lightbringer that defeated the darkness those thousands of years ago. If the old tales are true, a terrible weapon forged with a loving wife's heart. Part of me thinks man was well rid of it, but great power requires great sacrifice. That much at least the Lord of Light is clear on."

That doesn't sound like Jon.  It sounds like Dany.

As for Jon's parentage, Jon MIGHT be a Targaryen.  Dany IS a Targaryen..

The warg theory doesn't mean anything because the the novel's premier warg is not Jon, it is Bram.

Television crap not withstanding, the two men that Melisandre has seen in her fires have fucking died violent deaths, so that means that Melisadre is very good at seeing the faces of important men that are about to get shivved.

Wanting dots to connect and dots actually connecting are two different things.

[J.T.]

35 minutes ago, Raziel403 said:

Yet you're doing the same thing insisting that everything involving Jon is fan serivce and not his original intention.

So why don't we just wait until he finishes the book and find out what he intended and if what happens in the show happens in the next book, we will all have our confirmation.

[Raziel]

At this rate, we're never going to find out.

[J.T.]

10 minutes ago, Raziel403 said:

At this rate, we're never going to find out.

Which makes all of this fan spec concerning the true lineage of Jon Snow pure fan spec and then when the only thing we have to go on are future seasons of the show, the fucking "canon" debates will erupt with people arguing about the events of fantasy novels versus the television series as if they were debating real life history.

It is around that time where I usually begin to despise the people that enjoy the same things that I enjoy,

[goodhelmet]

We see this in wrestling all the time. Sometimes, the best story to tell is the most obvious one. Long live Jon Snow... Savior of Westeros. 

[J.T.]

9 minutes ago, goodhelmet said:

We see this in wrestling all the time. Sometimes, the best story to tell is the most obvious one. Long live Jon Snow... Savior of Westeros. 

I'm a big believer in Occam's Razor, but magic means never having to say you're sorry and the best story isn't necessarily the most obvious one.  It is the one that brings in the most viewership.

Jon is a popular character and fans are happy to see him back (so to speak) and I have faith that the writers will do interesting things with their poetic license.

Long live Jon Snow.... again....

[Jingus]

1 hour ago, Raziel403 said:

Ya know, until probably next week, the big Snow thing might still be a book spoiler that people don't know about.

Not really a spoiler.  The show has pulled far ahead of the books now, in almost every storyline (Arya's training, the Ironborn choosing a new leader, and a few smaller C-level subplots are the only place where the books still have more material).  A Dance With Dragons ended with Jon getting assassinated in the exact same way that last season ended with it.  

1 hour ago, J.T. said:

It is hilarious that everyone seems to know the old man personally and are aware of his intentions.

We don't know him... but the  producers and writers who run Game of Thrones certainly know him.  I'm sure they've had countless talks over the direction of the show, they've even publicly said that GRRM has told them the entire ending of the story just in case he dies suddenly before completing the books.  

 

And I gotta laugh at all this "I'm sure now that Hero X will now subject Villain Y to Satisfying Death Z!" talk.  Come on, guys.  Have you SEEN this show?  They don't do big heroic comeuppances.  Even the had-it-coming deaths like those of Tywin and Joffrey were still calculated to leave you feeling cold and empty and almost sympathetic for the dying villain.  Sheeyit, even Brienne finally getting her long-wished-for revenge on Stannis was handled in such a way that it didn't feel victorious or cathartic in the least.  Every single time that the "heroes" rarely manage to "win", it's always deliberately undercut in some fashion to make us still feel like shit.  

[EVA]

Fortunately for JT, George has no pages, so he'll never have to be proven wrong.