WRESTLEDREAM II - 10/12/2024

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

4 minutes ago, The Natural said:

No worries. Cheers.

Thanks. I just didn’t want to seem rude. Thinking back on it they really should have made the match with Nigel for the belt too so he could’ve had at least three defenses of it. 

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

2 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

The final match was a great capper to it, but I vaguely recall that the "lose and retire" run as a whole was uninspired, with short matches against midcarders, mostly fuck finishes, and Flair losing tags (where it was decided the stip didn't apply).  It was very half-assed and the prevailing view is that the Michaels match saved the angle.

Yeah just looking back and seeing some of the names he beat it’s just as bad as you’re describing. From that point of view I think Bryan’s goodbye was done better because at least he had the matches with Nigel and Okada in between. 

[AxB]

18 minutes ago, Just Adam Bay Bay said:

Thanks. I just didn’t want to seem rude. Thinking back on it they really should have made the match with Nigel for the belt too so he could’ve had at least three defenses of it. 

Nigel wasn't a contender. His win/loss record for the previous 14 years was F 1, W 0, L 1.

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

4 minutes ago, AxB said:

Nigel wasn't a contender. His win/loss record for the previous 14 years was F 1, W 0, L 1.

Considering the fact Mox defended against both Jake Hager and The Butcher I don’t think people would’ve batted an eye at Nigel getting a shot. 

[Technico Support]

4 minutes ago, Just Adam Bay Bay said:

Considering the fact Mox defended against both Jake Hager and The Butcher I don’t think people would’ve batted an eye at Nigel getting a shot. 

LOL exactly.  I mentioned it last week, but this is a company where, if you've been MIA for months but TK realizes you could have a banger jobbing to a champ, he'll microwave you with one jobber win on Rampage or Collision and then you get the title match Wednesday.  Meanwhile, Hologram is like 15-0 and is nowhere near contention discussion.  There are no kayfabe rules for who gets a shot and who doesn't.  If you told me the whole idea behind AEW is that Tony Khan as just like Dario Cueto, except substitute cocaine for rampaging bloodlust, I'd believe it.

Edited October 15, 2024 by Technico Support

[Shartnado]

5 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

LOL exactly.  I mentioned it last week, but this is a company where, if you've been MIA for months but TK realizes you could have a banger jobbing to a champ, he'll microwave you with one jobber win on Rampage or Collision and then you get the title match Wednesday.  Meanwhile, Hologram is like 15-0 and is nowhere near contention discussion.  There are no kayfabe rules for who gets a shot and who doesn't.  If you told me the whole idea behind AEW is that Tony Khan as just like Dario Cueto, except substitute cocaine for rampaging bloodlust, I'd believe it.

Well, now after his successful PPV debut, one would imagine Hologram would be in a discussion for at least a TNT or International title shot on TV before Full Gear, or at least prior to World's End.

[KriskitaKoloff]

so fans actually think Darby should have dethroned Bryan? I never thought anyone actually wanted that, what does a scrappy bump machine underdog do with a title reign? He would get dominated every match and score some 123 Kid fluke win, Darby has never been built as a legit threat to anyone. It's perfectly obvious that the goal going forward is to have Darby win but he needs some kind of buildup to get there which is clearly what theyre setting up starting with the Brody King win. 

I'd imagine once Darby dethrones Mox, Jack Perry will be his main feud to continue the Four Pillars story since Guevara should never be in a main event feud. 

[KriskitaKoloff]

4 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Yeah, this.  So now we have done the whole "next time I lose, I retire" gimmick twice in wrestling -- with two massive, legendary wrestlers --  and somehow, both times, it sucked.  It feels like it should be an easy story to write.  Clearly Bryan was pretty much washed when he won the title, if not before then. 

Bryan was washed? He's continued to put on great matches all year.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

5 minutes ago, KriskitaKoloff said:

so fans actually think Darby should have dethroned Bryan? I never thought anyone actually wanted that, what does a scrappy bump machine underdog do with a title reign?

I gotta respectfully disagree on that only because Bryan himself leveraged those qualities into great babyface reigns in WWE and AEW - Darby could definitely do the same (especially with the built-in story of having been 'prepared' by Sting over the last ~5 years on his side).

FWIW, I also never thought the proposed Darby/Bryan match at Grand Slam would be BD's last - I figured we'd get a non-finish in Queens with an all-WA state three way main at WD between Darby/Swerve/Bryan, with Hangman costing Swerve (obviously this was prior to MVP's debut at the show and Swerve taking a bit of a detour from the title scene).

[just drew]

My personal opinion, just based on context clues and some things that have come out about Danielson's health, is that everyone involved thought they were going to have more time to run this angle. I think the endgame was always for Mox to take the title from Danielson, but it wasn't going to happen for much longer. I think they learned something about Danielson's neck or back that forced the abbreviated run. That's why Darby lost his title shot to Mox. The title needs to be on Mox for whatever the next story beat is, and Danielson apparently legitimately needs at least one surgery, so they had to go ahead and pull the trigger.

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, KriskitaKoloff said:

Bryan was washed? He's continued to put on great matches all year.

I mean that he was really beat up.

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

9 hours ago, Technico Support said:

LOL exactly.  I mentioned it last week, but this is a company where, if you've been MIA for months but TK realizes you could have a banger jobbing to a champ, he'll microwave you with one jobber win on Rampage or Collision and then you get the title match Wednesday.  Meanwhile, Hologram is like 15-0 and is nowhere near contention discussion.  There are no kayfabe rules for who gets a shot and who doesn't.  If you told me the whole idea behind AEW is that Tony Khan as just like Dario Cueto, except substitute cocaine for rampaging bloodlust, I'd believe it.

I really wish Dario were an on air character somewhere other than MLW. Honestly I wouldn’t have minded at all if they had him in the role most assume (myself included) that Shane McMahon is gonna fill as Mox’s higher power or whatever. Dario’s rampant bloodlust would fit the BCC guys and Marina perfectly. 

Just saying all this reminds me of how much I miss Lucha Underground. I love AEW but Lucha Underground was truly special in a way I don’t think another company can match.

Edited October 16, 2024 by Just Adam Bay Bay

[username]

6 hours ago, just drew said:

I think they learned something about Danielson's neck or back that forced the abbreviated run. That's why Darby lost his title shot to Mox. The title needs to be on Mox for whatever the next story beat is, and Danielson apparently legitimately needs at least one surgery, so they had to go ahead and pull the trigger.

See this seems logical except for one thing: if true why do you run Danielson/Okada on two days notice just because if he's hurt-bordering-on-injured enough to already shift plans?

That said, while it goes against everything we know about Danielson I do wonder if he simply went "I physically can't/aren't comfortable wrestling Darby" and that simply knocked everything off course. It seems unlikely as you would need to convince me that Danielson has the self-preservation gene, but heck I wouldn't want to catch Darby's dive either and I don't need neck surgery >_>

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

5 minutes ago, username said:

See this seems logical except for one thing: if true why do you run Danielson/Okada on two days notice just because if he's hurt-bordering-on-injured enough to already shift plans?

That said, while it goes against everything we know about Danielson I do wonder if he simply went "I physically can't/aren't comfortable wrestling Darby" and that simply knocked everything off course. It seems unlikely as you would need to convince me that Danielson has the self-preservation gene, but heck I wouldn't want to catch Darby's dive either and I don't need neck surgery >_>

I wish Darby had did his dive onto this guy that was four seats over from me at Dynamite last month. He was an obnoxious drunk making lewd comments about Mariah May’s body, and after Darby finished his segment he yelled at Darby to “give me your f’n skateboard Darby”. Like that was the most clever thing he’d ever heard.

[zendragon]

15 hours ago, The Natural said:

 

Another example of the chase better than the reign itself with the only successful defence of the AEW World Championship wasted on fucking Jack Perry.

I'm still glad Bryan Danielson won the AEW World Championship, I just wish it happened sooner and he had an epic reign. I watched Bryan Danielson vs. Swerve Strickland from AEW All In 2024 today and it's honestly lost a little lustre with me knowing how Bryan Danielson's reign turned out and Jon Moxley was the wrong guy to get the rub.

[The Natural]

4 hours ago, zendragon said:

Thank you very much, my friend.

[just drew]

8 hours ago, username said:

See this seems logical except for one thing: if true why do you run Danielson/Okada on two days notice just because if he's hurt-bordering-on-injured enough to already shift plans?

That said, while it goes against everything we know about Danielson I do wonder if he simply went "I physically can't/aren't comfortable wrestling Darby" and that simply knocked everything off course. It seems unlikely as you would need to convince me that Danielson has the self-preservation gene, but heck I wouldn't want to catch Darby's dive either and I don't need neck surgery >_>

My first thought is that Danielson had a short list of guys he was willing to put his health in jeopardy to mix it up with one more time. Probably why him vs. Nigel was on tv and not PPV. 

I think Darby taking the title off of Mox has always been the plan. I bet they just had to skip some of the steps they were gonna go through to get there...

[stuntmanc]

The hate Jack Perry gets is almost comical at this point.  I must be in the minority in thinking that his match with Danielson was awesome, his TNT title looks great and he's taken the ball/situation given to him and ran with it to make himself more interesting than generic babyface Jungle Boy/Hollywood Perry.  

I guess that's what happens when you run afoul of the most overrated wrestler of the past few decades not named the Undertaker.

 

EDIT:  This sentiment is more directed at the IWC as a whole regarding Perry.  The vitriol seems unfounded and while he'll never be in my top 100 favorite wrestlers, I appreciate the work he's putting in and it feels "in fashion" to hate on the guy

Edited October 16, 2024 by StuntmanCrowley

[HarryArchieGus]

33 minutes ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

The hate Jack Perry gets is almost comical at this point.  I must be in the minority in thinking that his match with Danielson was awesome, his TNT title looks great and he's taken the ball/situation given to him and ran with it to make himself more interesting than generic babyface Jungle Boy/Hollywood Perry.  

I guess that's what happens when you run afoul of the most overrated wrestler of the past few decades not named the Undertaker.

 

EDIT:  This sentiment is more directed at the IWC as a whole regarding Perry.  The vitriol seems unfounded and while he'll never be in my top 100 favorite wrestlers, I appreciate the work he's putting in and it feels "in fashion" to hate on the guy

Completely agree. The AEW audience booed the top money drawing babyface in the business out of the company, this isn't anything new. I too thought the Danielson match was excellent. The Shibata match was a lot of fun too. Finish included. I'm not crazy about his silly burnt belt or the even sillier Bus vignettes, but Jack's been solid in ring and on the mic. And all of what he's doing is a pretty good indication that he's still learning and getting better. It seems clear that at least part of the vocal hatred comes from ppl not being able to separate the character from the person - as if they know him because they heard a back stage story and saw him act like a jerk on TV. Privileged beginnings alone is an issue for many.

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

26 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Completely agree. The AEW audience booed the top money drawing babyface in the business out of the company, this isn't anything new. I too thought the Danielson match was excellent. The Shibata match was a lot of fun too. Finish included. I'm not crazy about his silly burnt belt or the even sillier Bus vignettes, but Jack's been solid in ring and on the mic. And all of what he's doing is a pretty good indication that he's still learning and getting better. It seems clear that at least part of the vocal hatred comes from ppl not being able to separate the character from the person - as if they know him because they heard a back stage story and saw him act like a jerk on TV. Privileged beginnings alone is an issue for many.

That’s another thing I’d count in Jack’s favor. I get his father is deceased (as is my own) but his push doesn’t feel like it’s out of nepotism unlike some of the WWE pushes that are merely getting them for being related to a member of the board. 

I think Jack is improving as a heel, and with time he’ll only get better. Plus he’s not the main focus of any show he’s on so it’s clear Tony wants to give him time. Unlike certain people in the other company (Solo Sikoa in particular) that are constantly main eventing without being particularly good in ring or convincing as a character. 

[Technico Support]

11 hours ago, username said:

See this seems logical except for one thing: if true why do you run Danielson/Okada on two days notice just because if he's hurt-bordering-on-injured enough to already shift plans?

That said, while it goes against everything we know about Danielson I do wonder if he simply went "I physically can't/aren't comfortable wrestling Darby" and that simply knocked everything off course. It seems unlikely as you would need to convince me that Danielson has the self-preservation gene, but heck I wouldn't want to catch Darby's dive either and I don't need neck surgery >_>

 

3 hours ago, just drew said:

My first thought is that Danielson had a short list of guys he was willing to put his health in jeopardy to mix it up with one more time. Probably why him vs. Nigel was on tv and not PPV. 

I think Darby taking the title off of Mox has always been the plan. I bet they just had to skip some of the steps they were gonna go through to get there...

My best guess is the plan was Darby winning the belt from someone else at Grand Slam or Wrestledream, as he won that #1 contendership in July.  But then Danielson told TK that he was hurt and needed to wrap up his full time career by year's end and get neck surgery, so TK, wanting to give Bryan the gold watch, changed everything.  Because there's no way 1) Darby losing his title shot via Jedi Mind Trick and 2) Danielson getting a a month and a half reign before retiring was ever anybody's idea of a good plan.

Please keep in mind Bryan winning the Owen tournament for the All In title shot screws with my theory and timeline and I invite anyone to please make sense of it.  

And there was also the story that Ospreay was going to win the world title at Forbidden Door but refused because he didn't like the idea of Swerve being a transitional champion.  Who the hell knows what the original plans for any of this were?

Edited October 16, 2024 by Technico Support

[Go2Sleep]

Looking back, they probably should've never put Bryan's career on the line and just had Swerve beat him. Bryan clearly emptied the tank in that match and it would've been a nice cap to Swerve's run. Best yet, everything else could've played out almost exactly the same. Psycho Hangman goes on to beat Swerve for the World title and sets up the program with Jay after demolishing Darby at Grand Slam. Bryan says his career is winding down and next time he loses he'll end his full-time career. He takes the TNT belt off Perry with the same BCC turn after. Mox says Bryan is an albatross to the BCC at this point. He wished Jack was up to the task of finishing Bryan off, but clearly TK's hand-picked "next guys" aren't ready so he has to do it himself. Mox does the exact same angle with the TNT title instead of the World.

Hindsight's 20/20 and all that, but I think AEW is in a much better spot right now with that route.

[Gramsci]

From what has been reported, Danielson's win at All In was planned since at least January 2024. 

There were some leaks in July saying that Moxley was tired of US Wrestling TV and that if he could be convinced to return, he would win the title from Danielson in Tacoma. The plan has always been: Swerve - Danielson - Moxley.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

20 hours ago, just drew said:

My personal opinion, just based on context clues and some things that have come out about Danielson's health, is that everyone involved thought they were going to have more time to run this angle. I think the endgame was always for Mox to take the title from Danielson, but it wasn't going to happen for much longer. I think they learned something about Danielson's neck or back that forced the abbreviated run. That's why Darby lost his title shot to Mox. The title needs to be on Mox for whatever the next story beat is, and Danielson apparently legitimately needs at least one surgery, so they had to go ahead and pull the trigger.

I'd be willing to bet the plan was always Darby vs Bryan at Grand Slam with a fuck finish from Mox OR a valiant loss to Bryan where Mox attacks and destroys both after. The plan was always for Bryan's hard out to be Wrestle Dream in Washington. They just fucked the Darby match when on a whim TK changed course to get that Nigel match in.

I'm glad the Nigel match happened. But I wish it happened in a different way.

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, Gramsci said:

From what has been reported, Danielson's win at All In was planned since at least January 2024. 

 

 

20 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

The plan was always for Bryan's hard out to be Wrestle Dream in Washington.

 

Sorry guys, I just can't believe anyone with even a little bit of intelligence and creativity thought the Danielson reign we got, 46 days long with a "lose and I retire" stip that had zero time to breathe and create drama, was the thing to do.  I can believe one of the two things quoted above, but not both.