The Wall Street Journal Vince McMahon Thread.

[Mister TV]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

When you reach WWE, you're told nothing you did before WWE matters.  They push you a little to show you how great it can be, then kill your push for a while to show you how bad it can be.  That way you know who is in charge and that you better tow the line because they are in complete control of your career.

That's basically what pimps do, Vince McMahon's management style when it comes to talent is right out of the Iceberg Slim book on pimping.

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, jaedmc said:

That's essentially how all cults operate.

 

This point was not lost on Lance, Dave, or Garrett.

[Technico Support]

36 minutes ago, Mister TV said:

That's basically what pimps do, Vince McMahon's management style when it comes to talent is right out of the Iceberg Slim book on pimping.

Thus aligning with the apocryphal story, maybe mentioned in the sleaze thread, wherein Vince caught Shane having a conversation with Ultimate Warrior and chided him, saying “dammit Shane, you’re supposed to fuck ‘em, not marry ‘em!”

Edited March 4 by Technico Support

[Curt McGirt]

I will go one further and say that is exactly how the Mafia operates, as well. 

[jaedmc]

This is really a problem with the entertainment industry as a whole(not just a rasslin' problem.)

People talk about Love Bombing, and with entertainment the bombing comes from fans. There is nothing like performing and feeling even just a handful of people love what you're doing, let alone arenas full. And if you want it again you gotta go back to the person who gave you the opportunity to get on stage, in the ring, in front of a camera. That's a terrible amount of power to have over generally insecure people(as entertainers and artists are prone to be). And I don't think we'll ever be rid of people(male or female) who exploit it. I don't mean that cynically like the entertainment business is trash forever. I mean that people have to be more aware of their own self worth and when other people are taking advantage of it. You don't need Vince to feel valuable.

[Curt McGirt]

...and guess what business was ruled by the Mafia for years

[Cliff Hanger]

That was a really good podcast but I hope that afterward, someone took Dave aside and told him that the G-word is a slur against Romani and not appropriate anymore to describe people who live on the road because of their jobs. Maybe I'm oversensitive, but I flinched.

[odessasteps]

Didn’t people accuse Quack/chikara  of basically being a cult? 

[odessasteps]

12 minutes ago, Cliff Hanger said:

That was a really good podcast but I hope that afterward, someone took Dave aside and told him that the G-word is a slur against Romani and not appropriate anymore to describe people who live on the road because of their jobs. Maybe I'm oversensitive, but I flinched.

It’s certainly been in a term in the business for a long time and you have to get people to unlearn it. 
 

[Elsalvajeloco]

6 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Hearing Lance's talk about the wrestling culture in general really bothered me as well.  To summarize:

• You're told to always protect the business.  Never discuss the business with anyone outside it.
• Never stooge the boys to the office.  Always deal with problems among the boys with the boys.
• When you reach WWE, you're told nothing you did before WWE matters.  They push you a little to show you how great it can be, then kill your push for a while to show you how bad it can be.  That way you know who is in charge and that you better tow the line because they are in complete control of your career.

Some months back, I was listening to a STW episode for some Invasion era PPV (probably KotR 2001). Bruce and Conrad almost went into this unintentional Who's on First bit regarding why DDP got the stalker gimmick. The whole episode is a bit depressing and sad but that particular segment is a symptomatic is trying to sabotage talent just to prove their superiority. By Bruce's own logic (1) WWF in their prime years of 1985-1990 was not successful because it came undone in 1991-1997 and (2) what worked in wrestling once before can no longer work cause WWF fans don't care about stuff that happened elsewhere even though there are SEVERAL examples proving otherwise. There is pigheaded and petty and then there is whatever kool-aid Vince concocted for his minions. From that you can understand why WWF was no longer hot like they were in the Attitude era. They were willing to tank their business just to prove a point.

[odessasteps]

1. You get the feeling Sting made the right call in not going there for as long as he did. And they still had to bury him after all those years.

2. it’s amazing how well they treated Flair in his stint, being the “other world champ”, the Rumble match and only really burying him by dropping a loser leave town match to Hennig, when they could have done so much worse.

[dragonzombie]

Vince sold more stock

https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1764803898311610484

[piranesi]

3 hours ago, jaedmc said:

This is really a problem with the entertainment industry as a whole(not just a rasslin' problem.)

People talk about Love Bombing, and with entertainment the bombing comes from fans. There is nothing like performing and feeling even just a handful of people love what you're doing, let alone arenas full. And if you want it again you gotta go back to the person who gave you the opportunity to get on stage, in the ring, in front of a camera. That's a terrible amount of power to have over generally insecure people(as entertainers and artists are prone to be). And I don't think we'll ever be rid of people(male or female) who exploit it. I don't mean that cynically like the entertainment business is trash forever. I mean that people have to be more aware of their own self worth and when other people are taking advantage of it. You don't need Vince to feel valuable.

the love, laughter, and approval of a live audience is probably one of the most immediately addictive things in the world. I’ve heard otherwise really smart and level-headed people like comedian Andy Daly have to kind of admit that once it has you there is almost nothing too demeaning to keep you from going back. 

pursuing fame must be terrible  if you get it you spend your life in a never-ending panic over it running out and if you don’t you spend your life feeling like you’ve beeen denied the only thing that matters to you. Emily Dickinson was the sane one it turns out. Do what interests you not what might make you famous  

 

 

[Technico Support]

15 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Some months back, I was listening to a STW episode for some Invasion era PPV (probably KotR 2001). Bruce and Conrad almost went into this unintentional Who's on First bit regarding why DDP got the stalker gimmick. The whole episode is a bit depressing and sad but that particular segment is a symptomatic is trying to sabotage talent just to prove their superiority. By Bruce's own logic (1) WWF in their prime years of 1985-1990 was not successful because it came undone in 1991-1997 and (2) what worked in wrestling once before can no longer work cause WWF fans don't care about stuff that happened elsewhere even though there are SEVERAL examples proving otherwise. There is pigheaded and petty and then there is whatever kool-aid Vince concocted for his minions. From that you can understand why WWF was no longer hot like they were in the Attitude era. They were willing to tank their business just to prove a point.

The whole "nothing you did before matters" thing is insane when you consider that the initial strategy to build the company in the early 80s was to just steal the hottest wrestlers from other places and push them immediately.  Which then leads me to ask, when did Vince settle into the strategy of "push first, then pull back just to teach them a lesson?"  Because he certainly didn't do that shit in the 80s. 

[Technico Support]

Vince is just a fucking weird person.

Back against the wall?  Act like an actual wrestling promoter.  Do anything you can to put on a good product that people will like.

Fat and happy, no competition?  Do whatever weird shit appeals to you and only to you, and feed your own ego to the detriment of the product..

[Sublime]

26 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

The whole "nothing you did before matters" thing is insane when you consider that the initial strategy to build the company in the early 80s was to just steal the hottest wrestlers from other places and push them immediately.  Which then leads me to ask, when did Vince settle into the strategy of "push first, then pull back just to teach them a lesson?"  Because he certainly didn't do that shit in the 80s. 

Apparently cause I’m Vince and others minds if what happened before mattered business would have never went down ever cause…….
 

Everybody I think the whole Vince was a promotional genius was all a lie and it was just that he was a sociopathic narcissist asshole who didn’t honor or respect the unwritten code of wrestler promotion to put everyone else out of business or at least fry up their business to the point they couldn’t compete. 

[SirSmUgly]

3 hours ago, Sublime said:

Apparently cause I’m Vince and others minds if what happened before mattered business would have never went down ever cause…….
 

Everybody I think the whole Vince was a promotional genius was all a lie and it was just that he was a sociopathic narcissist asshole who didn’t honor or respect the unwritten code of wrestler promotion to put everyone else out of business or at least fry up their business to the point they couldn’t compete. 

I think it's both. 

w/r/t "the unwritten code of [...] promotion," he was in business with a bunch of other assholes who defended regional monopolies. I have a hard time squeezing tears out for those promoters (though I do believe that territory-era wrestling is probably the healthiest and most interesting from a creative standpoint, but that's another story).

But he did bust up those regional monopolies and eventually make his company synonymous with pro wrestling in America, so he's not any better. 

I don't think anyone can deny that Vince was a promotional genius in the pro wrestling business, though. The most obvious example of this is his vision of what Hulk Hogan could be compared to Verne Gagne's comparatively very limited vision.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but even then, when Hogan showed back up in WWF, Vince pushed him as though he were already a star without ever mentioning the AWA. I think in Hogan's return in '83, they just pretended that he'd fallen into a hole for a year or so and focused on him ditching Freddie Blassie and being a good guy now. Vince has always had the "nothing you did before this matters" perspective, which makes sense when he was a "going national" mindset and everyone else was still in a territorial mindset where you would refer to what a guy did elsewhere to build him in your area. 

[odessasteps]

You also had the thing where Vince showed footage of other people's stars "to give them exposure" while he was really building his data base of potential hires. 

[Cliff Hanger]

Opps

Edited March 10 by Cliff Hanger
I said something long-winded and misinformed.

[AxB]

He isn't back on the roster page, though. He was never removed from the roster page.

[Cliff Hanger]

7 minutes ago, AxB said:

He isn't back on the roster page, though. He was never removed from the roster page.

Thank you for correcting. I need to stop listening to Facebook friends. Never mind.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

1 hour ago, Cliff Hanger said:

Thank you for correcting. I need to stop listening to Facebook friends. Never mind.

Facebook is a cesspool. 

[Cliff Hanger]

30 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Facebook is a cesspool. 

True but this is someone I've known for 25 years who isn't usually this dumb

[Technico Support]

Hearing discussions of Mercedes' recent comments had me thinking of this thread and Vince's Jedi mind tricks/cult programming.  I think anyone who worked extensively for WWE, especially someone like her who was "born and raised" there, would have similar feelings regarding the eventuality of going back there, especially when viewed through the lens of the company hammering the point home that nothing outside WWE is worth anything.

A more interesting discussion is the shorter list of people who probably have not allowed themselves to be brainwashed to feel that way.  I think of a guy like Steen, who, though he grew up a WWE fan, had a long pre-WWE career where he made money and never thought he'd ever get there anyway.  I think guys like that likely don't buy the "if it ain't WWE, it ain't shit" line.

[Dolfan in NYC]

Kev's an interesting case because he (and Sami frankly) grew up in "The Northeast" (yes, I'm counting Montreal), where the mindset has always been "WWE #1, Everyone Else *Iron Sheik Spit Sound*"    

And frankly, for the vast majority of his career, his biggest option outside of WWE was Hulk Hogan era TNA or Bullet Club era New Japan.  They both got in, they both thrived under both "administrations", and both are getting paid handsomely to do so.  

Mercedes is gonna do quite well for herself outside of WWE, but maybe in a few years or a couple of contracts...  I could see her returning for a final run as The Boss.  Especially once you know who's heart explodes.