The Wall Street Journal Vince McMahon Thread.

[Infinit]

1 minute ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Not to mention the fact that Vince has been shown *multiple times over* to be the type to retaliate against anyone who steps out of line. 

It's really tough to maintain your principles when you're a tech being shown a picture by the insane billionaire boss of the company, and you really need this job.  Not saying there's not a right or wrong here, but there were probably a bunch of people who needed to make some very difficult choices. 

Ugh, just a horrible story and I really, really hope she gets the justice she deserves.

Unfortunately, sometimes you have to smile and nod to keep your job.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

10 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

...and yet Punk is back (and Jade is there too probably -- at least for now). I don't get it.

I had similar thoughts, especially on Mr. Adult In The Room. I wonder what Target's policies on gang rape are?

Edited January 26 by Zakk_Sabbath
This wasn't the time for this and I shouldn't have said it, but I am going to leave it up lest I delete and have anyone think I may have said something sympathetic to the criminals in question

[Godfrey]

I think a lot of people, myself included, are hoping the regime change at WWE is more than just symbolic

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Just now, Godfrey said:

I think a lot of people, myself included, are hoping the regime change at WWE is more than just symbolic

I know it's been discussed ad nauseum now (I'm late to all this) but with some of Dana White's public behavior, and some of the things WME has allegedly been complicit with in Hollywood, I very seriously doubt it. That statement yesterday really gave off the vibe of "We weren't here, not our problem."

[jaedmc]

I'd give anything for someone to just stand up and walk out. 

16 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

"Who knew what" is kind of a shitty game to play here because the thing about these kinds of abusers is that they're really good at hiding things and endearing themselves to non-would-be-victims specifically so it seems like a crazy idea that they would be capable of such crimes.

I get what you're saying, but my conflict with this is that this wasn't really a surprise. I don't think he was good at hiding any of it. I'm not interested in hunting people down and saying "what did you know?", but in this specific case, it's clear people knew. And I'm more hurt that it took this long for some it all to come around. 

This wasn't one abuser, this was a team effort. People supported him in doing it. So I don't fault people for wondering how bad the systemic rot is.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

15 minutes ago, jaedmc said:

I'd give anything for someone to just stand up and walk out. 

I get what you're saying, but my conflict with this is that this wasn't really a surprise. I don't think he was good at hiding any of it. I'm not interested in hunting people down and saying "what did you know?", but in this specific case, it's clear people knew. And I'm more hurt that it took this long for some it all to come around. 

This wasn't one abuser, this was a team effort. People supported him in doing it. So I don't fault people for wondering how bad the systemic rot is.

You actually caught me while I was in the middle of making an edit so I'm gonna just cancel it and reply it here: I think it's a perfectly reasonable question to ask of anyone in the office, given the content of the suit, and a perfectly reasonable question to ask of anyone in the 'former UFC star's' circle, but I'm hesitant to go down that road with anyone else until more comes out for the reason mentioned - ill use an example from a prior page: Bryan Danielson praises Vince at a presser, thanks him for teaching him so much about the business, has proximity to the situation via marriage; I find it hard to believe that a guy too nice to eat animals would be complicit in this type of behavior. But again, what's complicit? @piranesihad some excellent points on this yesterday. Hearing a whisper and not following up, is not the same as hearing a detailed description, is not the same as witnessing with your own eyes, or outright participating in the crime. Idk, it's complicated - my point is, it's just very difficult with so many varying degrees of complicitness possible to say "X guy had to know."

Edit: and I should add, maybe it's wishful thinking! I don't watch WWE anymore, but I get the idea of tainted memories and things like that - I keep hearing "B__ BL___ C___" in the WHATAMANEUVER voice in my head, too - if it turns out every single WWE employee/contractor knows, I'll gladly, gladly eat every word of this post, I just want to give a slight bit of grace to people who needed the job, or weighed working for this guy against their lifelong dream, or whatever the case may be

Edited January 26 by Zakk_Sabbath

[Godfrey]

21 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I know it's been discussed ad nauseum now (I'm late to all this) but with some of Dana White's public behavior, and some of the things WME has allegedly been complicit with in Hollywood, I very seriously doubt it. That statement yesterday really gave off the vibe of "We weren't here, not our problem."

Don't get me wrong, I know this and have no expectations of TKO or Endeavour rising to the occasion unless it's the fiscally responsible thing for them to do. I mean more that with HHH taking over and the clearing out of top WWE officials that the hope is the culture actually will change. But I'm not holding my breath and if we get a whiff of Brock on TV again I'll be gone

Edited January 26 by Godfrey

[jaedmc]

I would hope and imagine most people didn't know the extent of it. But it feels like more than just a whisper to me. It feels like a lot of talking for years. In fact this specific accusation was brought up before, it's why he was ousted the first time. The total picture came out yesterday, but people in the company have had much longer than 24 hrs to reckon with the character of this asshole. 

[jaedmc]

I should say, I don't think everyone knew. I'm not looking to go down the roster and assign guilt. What I really want is for someone, anyone to do the right thing. I don't need Bryan Danielson to say "Sorry guys, this fucker fooled me." It's fine, I don't blame him. But someone somewhere knew more and they did nothing. I just want one of them to stand up. I want someone to look at how TKO is approaching this and say, I'm not working here until that guy is gone. Anyone.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Just now, Godfrey said:

Don't get me wrong, I know this and have no expectations of TKO or Endeavour rising to the occasion unless it's the fiscally responsible thing for them to do. I mean more that with HHH taking over and the clearing out of top WWE officials that the culture actually will change. But I'm not holding my breath and if we get a whiff of Brock on TV again I'll be gone again

I had this thought too, but if what we have read about H/Steph leading the investigation on this is true, then again, my hopes are not super high. I'm probably not even giving em my $80 for the game this year.

[Log]

14 minutes ago, jaedmc said:

I should say, I don't think everyone knew. I'm not looking to go down the roster and assign guilt. What I really want is for someone, anyone to do the right thing. I don't need Bryan Danielson to say "Sorry guys, this fucker fooled me." It's fine, I don't blame him. But someone somewhere knew more and they did nothing. I just want one of them to stand up. I want someone to look at how TKO is approaching this and say, I'm not working here until that guy is gone. Anyone.

Sometimes the really bad sociopaths (as Vince clearly is) are very good at hiding stuff from the right people, too. Some of the people we've mentioned who may have been somewhat close to him could very well have had no idea. Maybe some inkling that he was having an affair or whatever, but perhaps not that his behavior with this woman was so monstrous.

 

24 minutes ago, jaedmc said:

I would hope and imagine most people didn't know the extent of it. But it feels like more than just a whisper to me. It feels like a lot of talking for years. In fact this specific accusation was brought up before, it's why he was ousted the first time. The total picture came out yesterday, but people in the company have had much longer than 24 hrs to reckon with the character of this asshole. 

This made me realize that I was confused about some of this. Is this most recent news (the horrible details that came out yesterday) the same incident that he was ousted for last year (or whenever that was)?

If so, while it already looked bad that they let him back in before, now it REALLY looks bad.

[odessasteps]

1 hour ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

"Who knew what" is kind of a shitty game to play here because the thing about these kinds of abusers is that they're really good at hiding things and endearing themselves to non-would-be-victims specifically so it seems like a crazy idea that they would be capable of such crimes.

I just this very thing to Matt. It will likely lead some people to target the principals they do not like  (for example Hunter, Kevin Dunn, Bruce).

[Zakk_Sabbath]

1 minute ago, Log said:

This made me realize that I was confused about some of this. Is this most recent news (the horrible details that came out yesterday) the same incident that he was ousted for last year (or whenever that was)?

If so, while it already looked bad that they let him back in before, now it REALLY looks bad.

Yup. I thought this was new at first too, but it's the same victim going after him because the NDA is essentially unenforceable - they touch on this in the suit itself, but what she signed is so broad she wouldn't even be able to ever say she worked there

[odessasteps]

I heard someone say Vince not paying the women the rest of her settlement is like Vince not paying Stu for Stampede back in the mid 1980s. It’s what he does.

[Technico Support]

43 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I find it hard to believe that a guy too nice to eat animals would be complicit in this type of behavior.

Morrissey has entered the chat

[JLowe]

The thing that has really stuck in my craw is what just finally came up: this is what he was removed for in 2022, and they let him come back and make billions, knowing that he did this.

Edited January 26 by JLowe

[Godfrey]

Didn't he force his way back in causing two board members and Stephanie to quit?

[odessasteps]

Wonder if anyone will be interviewing Rita Chatterton today. She’s certainly a person whose perspective would be interesting to hear. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Just now, Technico Support said:

Morrissey has entered the chat

Haha first of all I love you for this, and secondly, I kinda realized how dumb it was once I typed it but it was the best example I could think of that wasn't some weird, parasocial-adjacent thing that essentially boiled down to "I think this person I've never met has decent morals because they seem like a nice guy in interviews."

[supremebve]

I don't think we should go around accusing anyone if anything,  but if you think that someone in the wrestling business deserves the benefit of the doubt,  you probably haven't learned nearly enough from this situation. I know enough to know that this isn't a business that attracts a lot of saints. 

[Loki]

Just now, odessasteps said:

Wonder if anyone will be interviewing Rita Chatterton today. She’s certainly a person whose perspective would be interesting to hear. 

Wasn't there something about Vince re-settling up with her in the recent past?

Quote

I heard someone say Vince not paying the women the rest of her settlement is like Vince not paying Stu for Stampede back in the mid 1980s. It’s what he does.

Knowing how revolting what he did was, I still can't get that he wouldn't honor this settlement. He literally threw away his "get out of jail" card.

[Technico Support]

27 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I had this thought too, but if what we have read about H/Steph leading the investigation on this is true, then again, my hopes are not super high. I'm probably not even giving em my $80 for the game this year.

I think TKO needs to clear out the Vince loyalists/members of Vince's inner circle just in case.  Especially HHH, who had to know something.  He's Vince's son in law FFS.  Even if he didn't, you can't call leading this investigation and then declining to interview the victim acting in good faith.

13 minutes ago, Log said:

Sometimes the really bad sociopaths (as Vince clearly is) are very good at hiding stuff from the right people, too. Some of the people we've mentioned who may have been somewhat close to him could very well have had no idea. Maybe some inkling that he was having an affair or whatever, but perhaps not that his behavior with this woman was so monstrous.

 

This made me realize that I was confused about some of this. Is this most recent news (the horrible details that came out yesterday) the same incident that he was ousted for last year (or whenever that was)?

If so, while it already looked bad that they let him back in before, now it REALLY looks bad.

 

5 minutes ago, JLowe said:

The thing that has really stuck in my craw is what just finally came up: this is what he was removed for in 2022, and they let him come back and make billions, knowing that he did this.

The funny thing is that he wasn't ousted for being a rapist.  He was ousted for playing games with company money.  Corporations don't care about a CEO using his power to force a woman into a sexual relationship.  Just don't fuck with company money while you do it.

[odessasteps]

4 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I don't think we should go around accusing anyone if anything,  but if you think that someone in the wrestling business deserves the benefit of the doubt,  you probably haven't learned nearly enough from this situation. I know enough to know that this isn't a business that attracts a lot of saints. 

The saying “wrestling attracts broken people” has been around a long time for a reason. It’s a business built on a lie. 

[The Natural]

This is the sickest I've felt as a fan of wrestling for 33 years. I had to take breaks reading the Wall Street Journal article and lawsuit. It's one of the worst things I've ever read. Fucking awful.

Edited January 26 by The Natural

[Octopus]

57 minutes ago, jaedmc said:

I would hope and imagine most people didn't know the extent of it. But it feels like more than just a whisper to me. It feels like a lot of talking for years. In fact this specific accusation was brought up before, it's why he was ousted the first time. The total picture came out yesterday, but people in the company have had much longer than 24 hrs to reckon with the character of this asshole. 

Reminds me of stories like Weinstein and Grizzly Smith types being known creeps that were at least whispered about for some time fairly openly. Who all actively participated? Who all knew? Who all basically knew but allowed chosen indifference/ ignorance? Who was in the dark but heard rumors? Etc.

Edited January 26 by Octopus