Forbidden Door II - 6/25/2023

[SirFozzie]

So. Turns out watching it in a Movie Theater was a bad idea. With my bad leg, going up a lot of stairs to get to my seat was no fun, and by the time we got 3 hours in (I showed up just before zero hour begin) I was about a 12 on a 1-10 scale of pain. There wasn't any room to stretch out the leg to get relief, and you can't get up and walk around a dark theater like you can at home to try to relieve the pain

 

I had to call it around 10 pm, and caught up to results while icing down my hip/back/leg and taking a pain pill.

 

Thoughts:

Something Jeff Cobb does better than just about anyone I've seen as a monster heel is "right-selling" opponents offense. Not no-selling it, but selling that it was a hard hit but he's a fucking monster, by attacking you're in his range and he'll gladly take it if that means he can serve up destruction to the opponents. Underrated skill in today's era (Solo Sikoa does it pretty well, just that monster aura)

I don't watch Japan regularly, so my note on El Phantasmo was "If Logan Paul signed a full time deal with WWE, they'd bring in El Phantasmo to try to pull some Bella Twin Magic with him"

Billie Starkz sells a hell of an ass beating. Which is good, because Athena gave her one.

Underwhelmed by MJF-Tanahashi. Tan really needed to learn from Rampage that he has a problem with the way the buckles are here, and him constantly trying to not lose his footing on the top rope took away from the match. I'm officially over the Dynamite Diamond Ring as a finish. Also, way to piss off the company you're working with MJF  with the robe.

I'm of two minds regarding Punk. He seems to have unleashed his inner wrestling troll (the hoganish cup of the ear followed by the leg drop, for example), and it can take away from the story of the match as he plays with the crowd. I did pop for the Pulsating pec-off with Kojima however.

The four way was fun as heck. You get the requisite "everybody does a move, and then gets hit by the same move from the next guy", but Daniel Garcia's sports entertainment bullshit was funny as heck. It was like an annoying playground kid demanding that they play along with his antics, but every time he tried to get involved in big boy fighting games, they would just SWAT him away as if he was disrespecting their fighting spirit by his bullshit.  If Cassidy makes many more defenses of the title he's going to be swathed in so many bandages we'll be referring to him as "El Hijo Del THE YETI"

Sanada vs Jungle Boy needed about 5 more minutes, but was inoffensive to good (a solid single or double in a show of homeruns). One thing that AEW does very well is that while long term wrestling fans spot the turn about to happen, they don't telegraph it in the moment. I like that they were talking about something unrelated when Jack Perry went down on a knee to set up the turn, and then.. boom. Did the fans really expect Tazz to get up and run to his son's aid? That's the only reason I can imagine for them to be chanting his name. (And I don't think Taz will go for it, still being a really tough guy, I'd love to see something where Jungle Jack Perry soldiifies his turn by beating on Taz, forcing Hook to break his "whatever" facade and really unleash hell on someone for it). Love the extra spot where Perry did the Jungle Boy wave one last time as a "Oh, you're not going to cheer for me anymore? GOOD" bit of added bonus to the turn.

Stuff that I'm going to have to do a watch on when I figure out how to get my hands on the video.

Storm-Nightengale was..again inoffensive to good. They need to figure a way to bring the OUtsiders down a bit, because I think they're getting to NWO-ish levels of needing to be taken down a peg because they don't take setbacks.

The ten man brawl wasn't over the top crazy, but it teetered on the edge of it. Considering the past bits of the feud, I was fully expecting gushers of blood, but that didn't deliver. There's a very good reason for that. It was because of what was coming up. The only question is whether Kingston-Claudio is going to take place in AEW, or ROH. Personally, I think it could be the tentpole for a ROH PPV, in a Fight Without Honor/

While this card showcased the best of NJPW and AEW wrestling styles, Ospreay-Omega was the best (story telling, selling actual hate in a wrestling match terms) and the worst (Finisher Spam, kickouts where they should be wrestling's equivalent of clinically dead. Also, big black mark on the storyline is Callis being ejected from ringside, but coming back  and being part of the finish. It should be a cathartic moment where the heel manager gets caught and can't save his man any more, instead it was a cheap pop because it wasn't honored.

Reading about the 6 man was painful as it fell well short of expectations. Thankfully, Sting wasn't injured, but yeah, the calendar's sadly running out on him. Surprised they're doing a tornado match on Wednesday.

Danielson-Okada.. well, everything's been written about this in previous pages, so I won't go into detail, except to say I wonder if Danielson tried to call an audible to get his arm checked out, and decided the only way to do that was the convulsions. If so, bad call, Bryan, but understandable. Although you know he'll work that into future promos. "I WRESTLED THE RAINMAKER FOR FIFTEEN MINUTES WITH A BROKEN FUCKING ARM"

 

Seemed to me that AEW got the better of this, so I hope NJPW gets to do the return at Wrestle Kingdom. (hear me out, Coach Tony, MJF tries to be a multi-continental champion, and enlists gedo/jado to come up with as much outside help possible to take the title from SANADA or whoever has the belt at that point, only to take a puroresu sized assbeating.

[For Great Justice]

Christian being right about Jungle Boy all along is the Bobby Heenan-est shit ever and god it’s glorious. Five stars.

[SirFozzie]

Oh random thought, sorry Baltimora, your 2020's run of "relevancy" is over now that Perry has turned.

[J.T.]

Jack Perry is going to make for an amazing heel.  Looking forward to the feud between him and Hook.  It would be so great if Jack went home to Uncle Christian and we got heel Jurassic Express for four or five months.

The finish in SANADA / Perry didn't feel organic.  It was probably brodied for some reason or another. 

If any finish needed reprogramming, it was Punk / Kojima.  It would've been better if Punk had just laid down for Kojima or maybe gotten DQed.

Show was pretty good.  Nothing terribly horrible but not too many MOTY candidates either.  Four way was a lot of fun.  I liked Orange respecting his opponents and resorting to chicanery to win and retain his belt.  Main event was what I expected it to be up until the point where Okada jobbed.  I was as surprised as anyone.

 

[odessasteps]

I wonder if they turned Jack because of all the "bad press" he was getting recently about his "poor behavior"  at cons and such. 

[SirFozzie]

or the reverse, they used his "bad press" over "poor behavior" as a way to work the turn?

[Octopus]

45 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Only caught the main so far. I thought it was an amazing Danielson performance and the story of Danielson running up the points and Okada staying in it by targeting the neck was very good. Danielson pulled out a bunch of tricks, including going along with the Yes Chants for the first time since arriving in AEW (which in my mind is a "trick") but was down to one arm limiting his ability to put Okada away, especially after two knees didn't do the trick. The adaptability was awesome. And then post match you find out he was actually hurt and just using his ingenuity and resolve to both tough it out and smart it through by coming up with believable variations that he could actually accomplish. It was 10th level chess. He was hurt, but made me think that he was just brilliantly feigning being hurt.

 

I loved so much about this match. A lot of it work and even the shift after the injury was interesting in retrospect to see how they changed things on the fly. 

I feel it likely would be more enjoyable as a vacuum watch or surprisingly mid show. Granted, without the injury we would have seen the pace slowly rise and give it that big main event feel in the end. It was exciting seeing the slower pace be so captivating for a tired audience. If we didn’t get that injury, do we not get the realism of the seizure or even that seizure at all (idk, we’ve gotten it before)?

 I think it was good and will likely be categorized as a Cactus Jack vs Sabu - Of Mice and Men match. Hopefully they play it back with Danielson returning the favor.

[Matt D]

4 minutes ago, Octopus said:

I feel it likely would be more enjoyable as a vacuum watch or surprisingly mid show.

Was totally a vacuum watch for me so I'm your data point on that.

[AxB]

20 hours ago, Shartnado said:

You know I do things in a best possible taste, my man!

Is that an intentional Kenny Everett quote. or merely a coincidence?

Kenny Everett was a British DJ and Comedian in the 70s and 80s, he died of Aids-related illness in 1995.

[Dolphman 3000]

1 hour ago, SirFozzie said:

Tan really needed to learn from Rampage that he has a problem with the way the buckles are here, and him constantly trying to not lose his footing on the top rope took away from the match.

I feel like there needs to be an industry-wide discussion regarding turnbuckles.

Between Tanahashi almost slipping and breaking something because he's not used to the individual US pads, and Mercedes slipping and breaking her leg because she's not used to the NJPW style full-pads...maybe a compromise would be single pads in two corners and full pads in the other two? (the same styles across from each other of course)

That way Danielson can still do his turnbuckle flip, which he wouldn't be able to do in an NJPW ring with the full pads.

Otherwise I can just imagine him on 1/4 in Tokyo Dome staring at the pads and going "fuck".

Edited June 26, 2023 by Dolphman 3000

[Raziel]

4 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

I feel like there needs to be an industry-wide discussion regarding turnbuckles.

Between Tanahashi almost slipping and breaking something because he's not used to the individual US pads, and Mercedes slipping and breaking her leg because she's not used to the NJPW style full-pads...maybe a compromise would be single pads in two corners and full pads in the other two? (the same styles across from each other of course)

That way Danielson can still do his turnbuckle flip, which he wouldn't be able to do in an NJPW ring with the full pads.

Otherwise I can just imagine him on 1/4 in Tokyo Dome staring at the pads and going "fuck".

RoH used to use the full pads back when Danielson was there.  It didn't stop him from doing his flip.  He just might need to reacclimate to it.

 

I think the "He's not used to the turnbuckles" line from Ex was more covering for Tanahashi's knees being powder and not being able to actually climb like he used to.  He's been slow getting up there for a while now even in Japan.  

[EVA]

Danielson did the buckle flip in ROH when they still had the boxing style corners IIRC. (Edit: I did recall correctly.)

I really felt like Tana was playing up his unsteadiness last night. It led to an MJF cutoff every time and built to him finally getting his footing and hitting HFF.

Edited June 26, 2023 by EVA

[Octopus]

Speaking of Tanahashi, great job MJF! Both men, really. That match was a lot of fun, a great opener, and we got my love of taunts. 

A solid opener and now AEW and MJF have footage they can use forever of Tanahashi battling for the title. 

[SirFozzie]

oh, before I forget. for someone as claimingly disrespectful to the wrestling business as MJF is, I really appreciate the nearly perfect "Flair hits the corner with the flip over the ropes to the apron, runs to the next turnbuckle, climbs it, only to be slammed off it". I mean, if Flair doing it is the 1.0 standard, this was at least a .95.

Edited June 26, 2023 by SirFozzie

[Octopus]

It’s funny, in a GWE discussion I would both take a point away and give a point to Danielson from this performance. 

For a MOTN likely Omega v Osprey. Ideological differences maybe stirring up in my belly with mixed feelings, but I was wiggling my legs like crazy. Very exciting stuff. It won’t be my MOTY but I can’t deny my wiggles.

[HarryArchieGus]

1 hour ago, Matt D said:

Only caught the main so far. I thought it was an amazing Danielson performance and the story of Danielson running up the points and Okada staying in it by targeting the neck was very good. Danielson pulled out a bunch of tricks, including going along with the Yes Chants for the first time since arriving in AEW (which in my mind is a "trick") but was down to one arm limiting his ability to put Okada away, especially after two knees didn't do the trick. The adaptability was awesome. And then post match you find out he was actually hurt and just using his ingenuity and resolve to both tough it out and smart it through by coming up with believable variations that he could actually accomplish. It was 10th level chess. He was hurt, but made me think that he was just brilliantly feigning being hurt.

Nailed it. Ha, now go watch the incredible Ospreay v Omega and pretend you don't love it.

[Matt D]

25 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Nailed it. Ha, now go watch the incredible Ospreay v Omega and pretend you don't love it.

I'm always open for another wager but I don't see anything quite tumultuous enough to bet on right now.

And @Octopus, I'm planning on writing up the thing for Weds night barring disaster and I'm really excited to pick at the meat of a match with a shoot injury that was worked like a worked injury during a performance where he also worked a shoot injury and the surrealism of all of that.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Matt D

[Raziel]

Lost in yelling about the singles matches needing better agenting, 

 

Holy fuck do I need a Takeshita/Ishii match.

[AverageKong]

The intercontinental 4-way was fun and I really got into the closing minutes as it turned into a sprint. ZSJ is amazing, so confident and seamless. Orange capitalizing off of the PK was a good finish.

The crowd was charged up for the 10 man tag. That being said, it felt like whichever Buck that was on the outside doing laps to pander to the crowd was being unnecessary and distracting. With the mix of generations, intertwined stories, and intense action it felt very PURO. Just seemed to be missing the series of near falls as the finish approached. Glad to see Eddie back and though he may not be 100% it was disguised well by how he worked here. Takeshita is obviously a TK favorite but I thought he looked way to strong in there at times.

Willow vs Toni was ok. Still had some steam from the crowd and they kept it snug. Storm is overrated to me and I'm over the Outcasts. I'm more interested in what is going to come of Willow and Guilia...

[HarryArchieGus]

Omega kicking out of Ospreay's One Winged Angel at 1, and the incredible reaction it got live in the arena last night, was a personally defining 'why I love wrestling' moment. 

[Octopus]

33 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I'm always open for another wager but I don't see anything quite tumultuous enough to bet on right now.

And @Octopus, I'm planning on writing up the thing for Weds night barring disaster and I'm really excited to pick at the meat of a match with a shoot injury that was worked like a worked during a performance where he also worked a shoot injury and the surrealism of all of that.

Honestly, I’m still thinking on the match a day later. I’m filing this under the Mox v Punk squash for odd retroactive building of enjoyment. What a fun weird match.

[JLowe]

14 hours ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Props to Athena for protecting Billie after she either had the wind knocked out of her or broke a rib early on in their match - absolute pro

and Billie still took 2 nasty bumps afterwards, including a top rope to apron back bump!

[JLowe]

9 hours ago, John E. Dynamite said:

MOTN was OC/ZSJ/Shibata/Garcia and I won't hear otherwise.

I agree, fantastic blend of comedy, storytelling, spotz, grappling, and a bit of a shock ending.

[EVA]

Speaking of injuries, I’m shocked we’re not here talking about another gruesome Hiromu neck injury. It looked like he went straight down on his head from that overhead belly to belly by Cobb. They never showed a replay to confirm that it was as bad as it initially looked, but the crowd down front was visibly horrified.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

I really wish the "selling to make people think you've experienced a traumatic brain injury" trend would stop. Faking seizures, the trend on indie shows by selling with fencing responses, it's all disgusting.