AEW/ROH Finances, Ratings, etc.

[John from Cincinnati]

4 minutes ago, Andrew POE! said:

What's interesting is MJF without the title does better in the ratings when he appears. Which means the demographic would rather watch him when he's hunting for the title, not when he caught it.

Can't tell if you're trying to be funny or not, but he's been on one episode with the belt. Are we really trying to draw trends/conclusions from a single data point?

Oh wait, this is a message board discussion about rasslin' ratings. Of course we are. Carry on. 

[Andrew POE!]

Just now, John from Cincinnati said:

Can't tell if you're trying to be funny or not, but he's been on one episode with the belt. Are we really trying to draw trends/conclusions from a single data point?

Oh wait, this is a message board discussion about rasslin' ratings. Of course we are. Carry on. 

If the trend continues then yes it'll prove it out. If not, then no. It may be too early to tell, which is correct.

I just think the ratings would be up when he appeared but they were up last week (post-PPV) when people were expecting MJF to appear.

[Cobra Commander]

9 minutes ago, Andrew POE! said:

Which means the demographic would rather watch him when he's hunting for the title, not when he caught it.

or that the angles without a title on the line have been more compelling than the angles involving titles, which has been a bit of an AEW/Tony characteristic for awhile.

[Sammo~!]

9 hours ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Was Max even advertised for the show yesterday

Yes, Regal mentioned he would be on the show last week during that segment with Bryan/Mox and also it got announced on all their social media 

[TheVileOne]

Buying ROH was a mistake. They clearly had no plan for it and have no idea on how to manage two brands right now. 

Diluted their TV product, over-extended Tony Khan and the creative team. They weren't ready to run a separate brand. Now the AEW TV product has suffered as a result and become watered down.

ROH as a brand had virtually no value when they bought it other than the tape library. 

[twiztor]

4 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Buying ROH was a mistake. They clearly had no plan for it and have no idea on how to manage two brands right now. 

Diluted their TV product, over-extended Tony Khan and the creative team. They weren't ready to run a separate brand. Now the AEW TV product has suffered as a result and become watered down.

ROH as a brand had virtually no value when they bought it other than the tape library. 

While i believe you are right on your first point, but saying that Khan & Co. are "over-extended" because of ROH might be going a step too far. ROH has only run 3 stand alone shows. It's not like Khan is booking two ongoing weekly presentations. I think what overextended him was not only ROH, but the Forbidden Door show, the talent issues (most notably CM Punk and his gripebomb, but definitely not exclusive to him), the turnover in WWE and renewed rivalry, plus the ongoing TV contract negotiations. It definitely seems to be more than he was prepared for, but to put it all on ROH seems disingenuous. 

ROH having no value except the (history and) tape library? That i will agree with. Not that it can't change, but as it stands, in 2021 ROH was an essentially dead brand.

[Dog]

10 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Buying ROH was a mistake. They clearly had no plan for it and have no idea on how to manage two brands right now. 

Diluted their TV product, over-extended Tony Khan and the creative team. They weren't ready to run a separate brand. Now the AEW TV product has suffered as a result and become watered down.

ROH as a brand had virtually no value when they bought it other than the tape library. 

I had no idea you felt this way! Why haven't you said something?

[TheVileOne]

3 hours ago, Dog said:

I had no idea you felt this way! Why haven't you said something?

I will keep talking about it until the issues are finally fixed. 

[Dog]

2 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

I will keep talking about it until the issues are finally fixed. 

You say that as if I or any of the other oddly named people here can do anything about it. Your whinging accomplishes nothing.

Edited December 3, 2022 by Dog

[The Natural]

 

[porksweats]

2 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

I will keep talking about it until the issues are finally fixed. 

Vile, I totally get where you are coming from but maybe raise other points in addition?

[Dog]

2 hours ago, The Natural said:

 

Pretty typical for a modern wrestling show. Viewership gradually drops throughout the night.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

I'm not defending any performers or trying to take up for anyone. I'd just like to note a best of 7 series when you just know it's going to the 7th match doesn't scream must see TV for some. You can basically skip all of the first 6 and not miss out on anything storyline-wise. Sure there will be layered story beats that they thread through the whole series, but essentially nothing of note will be happening until the L.A. Dynamite show.

I think that's as important of a factor as anything in regards to the low closing quarter hour. Just thought I'd add that point in for consideration.

[twiztor]

21 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I'd just like to note a best of 7 series when you just know it's going to the 7th match doesn't scream must see TV for some. You can basically skip all of the first 6 and not miss out on anything storyline-wise.

i am definitely not disagreeing, especially since one of the main thing that interests me is interesting matchups (if there's no stakes to a match or an obvious outcome i am less interested. one of AEW's weak points IMO). that being said, having a random match in the series as the main event was a bad choice. Even in kayfabe, this could not have been the final match. it's not even that i'm not enjoying the series, but as the stakes continue to rise, so should its place on the card. 

[Shartnado]

3 hours ago, Dog said:

Pretty typical for a modern wrestling show. Viewership gradually drops throughout the night.

Yeah, it could be like "Man, I need to go to bed, I should have been asleep 45 minutes ago, I'll catch the rest whenever!" Or "Look, it's Conan, or Friends or Arsenio Hall or whatever the shows on actual TV are these days". Or indeed, "I already saw this twice, and that's a plenty".

[TheVileOne]

7 hours ago, Dog said:

You say that as if I or any of the other oddly named people here can do anything about it. Your whinging accomplishes nothing.

It makes me feel better, so it accomplishes that.

[Ziggy]

22 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Buying ROH was a mistake. They clearly had no plan for it and have no idea on how to manage two brands right now. 

Diluted their TV product, over-extended Tony Khan and the creative team. They weren't ready to run a separate brand. Now the AEW TV product has suffered as a result and become watered down.

ROH as a brand had virtually no value when they bought it other than the tape library. 

They already had more guys coming in than they knew what to do with. I still believe if they get them on TV they'll be fine. They didn't help things when they continued to add more titles. 

There's no reason MJF should have been off they Dynamite after winning the title. I know he’s supposed to be the big money promo but they also have to end starting off with a talking segment. That format needed to end 20 years ago.

Maybe the Unpopular opinion thar MJF actually becoming champion kills everything that made him special 

[Thunder Down Under]

I actually don’t think not having MJF on the show after winning the title wasn’t that big a deal. Hogan didn’t show up on the Nitro after BATB 96 and that angle turned out fine.

[AxB]

MJF was SHOOTING A HOLLYWOOD MOVIE when he missed that Dynamite.

[Shartnado]

2 hours ago, AxB said:

MJF was SHOOTING A HOLLYWOOD MOVIE when he missed that Dynamite.

Damn, well maybe Hollywood WILL win after all, when MJF decides to either stay with AEW or sign with WWE!

[Dolphman 3000]

10 hours ago, Ziggy said:

Maybe the Unpopular opinion thar MJF actually becoming champion kills everything that made him special 

I've heard in a few places "if he's really as big a Piper mark as he makes himself out to be, he would have refused the belt" and I have to agree

Guy is an attraction on his own and doesn't need the belt. And he rarely wrestles, so unless he has a strong faction around him to prevent him from losing and explain his cowardice (The Firm doesn't count), letting the guy sit on the belt and vocally say he won't be defending it often doesn't make any sense. Especially in Tony's House of Interim Champions where any possible title problem results in an automatic tournament.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

25 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

I've heard in a few places "if he's really as big a Piper mark as he makes himself out to be, he would have refused the belt" and I have to agree

Guy is an attraction on his own and doesn't need the belt. And he rarely wrestles, so unless he has a strong faction around him to prevent him from losing and explain his cowardice (The Firm doesn't count), letting the guy sit on the belt and vocally say he won't be defending it often doesn't make any sense. Especially in Tony's House of Interim Champions where any possible title problem results in an automatic tournament.

One of the biggest talking points in internet fandom is the Brock Lesnar part time champion stuff. They are purposely trying to book MJF to get heat in this way. It's 2022. Wrestling is a work and there isn't a soul that's planning on "paying to see him get his ass kicked" for "hurting" Regal.

Maybe there are some people mad enough that he's a part time champ that they will pay to boo him in person. There's still viable ways to get heat these days. But they're different than they were 30 years ago.

Not for nothing, but you seem pretty mad about this development. So in a sense you're getting worked and adding heat to MJF. If it's working on you maybe it's working on others?

[Ziggy]

19 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

One of the biggest talking points in internet fandom is the Brock Lesnar part time champion stuff. They are purposely trying to book MJF to get heat.

AEW has booked its World Champ not to defend the title on TV all the time anyway. WWE has done the same with Reigns as well for this run and he's appeared on TV every week so it's really nothing different except MJF is saying it to get heat. Unless MJF goes out and says he's only going to defend on PPVs then that would work since they don't do monthly PPVs. 

Danielson or Mox don't wrestle every week either. TK often does have some of his full-time uppercard talent wrestle every week either

[zendragon]

17 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I'm not defending any performers or trying to take up for anyone. I'd just like to note a best of 7 series when you just know it's going to the 7th match doesn't scream must see TV for some. You can basically skip all of the first 6 and not miss out on anything storyline-wise. Sure there will be layered story beats that they thread through the whole series, but essentially nothing of note will be happening until the L.A. Dynamite show.

I think that's as important of a factor as anything in regards to the low closing quarter hour. Just thought I'd add that point in for consideration.

This also happens in 2 out of 3 falls and Ironman matches. people tune out in the middle if you announce your going long

[odessasteps]

As mentioned in other threads, you have to do what isn’t expected to teach your audience that it can happen.