AEW Navel-Gazing Thread Number Two

[Matt D]

11 hours ago, Gordlow said:

Our Starting Point is Kenny, the Bucks, and Cody. Because that's where it started. (And also, like, SoCal Unsensored and Hangman and The Lucha Bros).

My relationship with AEW is so weird.

(I mean, I'll take Cody back and I have nothing against Kaz except for that I really, really don't ever want to see him wrestle)

[Hamhock]

22 hours ago, Gordlow said:

I think AEW has kind of outgrown what I personally would most prefer it to be. Perhaps, in a late-stage capitalist world that's all but inevitable. Damn near everything successful above a certain threshold has to, eventually, turn into a soulless corporate monster.

That is an interesting point to ponder, and runs somewhere adjacent to my scattered, random thoughts:

• indie fans have a personal investment in AEW beyond traditional fandom; the wrestlers are viewed/felt as a living extension of the fan; their success is the fans' collective success (this is not a criticism)
  • a rejection/setback of indie wrestling ("what's with this guy?" "this is silly") is internalized by the fan as a personal rejection (this is not a criticism)
• loose amalgamation of indie wrestlers sign to AEW = "maverick/outsider" political campaign winning a primary(?)
  • inevitable chafing against corporate structure = "we'll take it from here" DNC/RNC hacks assuming control of campaign(?)
  • but there does need to be some reining in of "everyone do what you want" for it to make cohesive sense in the long-term, doesn't there?
• an entertaining wrestling card ≠ successful mainstream tv wrestling promotion
  • like, being a good baker doesn't mean you can scale up to a nationally-distributed consumer food product
  • too many stips/weapons/gimmicks on one card can be awesome, but on too many cards it creates fan burnout/fatigue

or maybe not? I don't know. I'm a fan of AEW; I can see why there's tension and conflict within it; I don't know if it can be resolved or not.

 

Edited June 3 by Hamhock

[zendragon]

Dustin makes the cut as an ex WWE guy?

 I like the uniqueness of indie wrestling but if you are trying to run a national televised promotion you need someone to keep you from getting to far into the weeds, this maybe where JR comes in. Also to balance out the Indy weirdness and the 70-90s Japanese serious wrestling 

I think Jericho has made MJF and OC better with his feuds with them

Id be fine with the elite leaving, in a sense of pruning the tree encourages fresh growth . You don’t want a situation of Verne putting the title on himself decades past his prime

[Log]

So, at least for me, AEW's pretty fun again.

[Matt D]

17 minutes ago, Log said:

So, at least for me, AEW's pretty fun again.

Watch this cartwheel fest and tell me you’re not having fun:

 

[Octopus]

3 hours ago, Log said:

So, at least for me, AEW's pretty fun again.

Thank you, Will Washington 

[Shartnado]

On 6/3/2023 at 2:22 AM, zendragon said:

Dustin makes the cut as an ex WWE guy?

Yes, but with the caveat that he also makes the cut as an ex WCW guy that only Sting, Schiavone, Arn and JR do, so that makes a world of difference. I don't know what question does this answer, exactly, but I answered this anyway.

[John from Cincinnati]

42 minutes ago, Shartnado said:

Yes, but with the caveat that he also makes the cut as an ex WCW guy that only Sting, Schiavone, Arn and JR do, so that makes a world of difference. I don't know what question does this answer, exactly, but I answered this anyway.

This is Wight/Jericho/Jarrett erasure. 

[zendragon]

I think we’ve all collectively blocked out wcw from 99 on ward

[JLowe]

1 hour ago, zendragon said:

I think we’ve all collectively blocked out wcw from 99 on ward

Jericho and Wight were long gone by then and towards the end we basically had the heart of the future TNA X-division, Hurricane Helms, and AJ styles.

[zendragon]

I was mainly referring to “slap nuts” era Jarrett 

[Shartnado]

8 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

This is Wight/Jericho/Jarrett erasure. 

Sorry, you are correct. But I was thinking about the infamous "early  90's WCW" that Cody referred to when he talked about what AEW is going to be like. The cut off point there would be '94 and more specifically that Clash of the Champions where Flair and Sting unified the World and International titles. I don't know the question to this answer either, but Jarrett definitely makes the same cut as Dustin does, there's no doubt about that, albeit in a slightly different way.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

If it's alright with all y'all I'd like to move this thread away from discussion of who is and who is not a WWF/WCW guy (which in my opinion was not really ever the point, though I guess I can see how it would be a fun thing to have opinions about).

I'd like to nudge it gently back in the direction of navel gazing and mental masturbation.

To me (a Canadian living in Japan, so what do I know?) Jazz and Pro Wrestling are two of the greatest and most unique forms of art to come out of America. (Along with, what? Blues. Stand up comedy? Blockbuster popcorn movies?) 

And Jazz and Pro Wrestling have some very important things in common! Both involve improvisation. Both require paying attention to what your fellow performers are up to. The greatest moments in both are * often * unexpected and extemporaneous. It's common for cheesed-off grandpas to proclaim of the latest innovations, "That's NOT Jazz/Wrestling!" Both are WAY better live.

et cetera et cetera

That's Lionel Hampton and Buddy Rich jamming on "Hallelujah" (the c'mon get happy one, not the Leonard Cohen one). Two of the greatest virtuosos (and biggest show-offs) in all of music jamming with an absolute master. And it's phenomenal, in exactly the way you'd expect. All three men, unreservedly, themselves.

Tatum again, this time jamming with one of Duke Ellington's great tenor sax men, Ben Webster. To my ears, it is an absolute masterpiece. One of the most precious gems in the history of recorded music. It's a weird match, Tatum with the most prodigious technique and Webster more known for playing with feeling and tone... But it works like a charm, the tenor sax (it has been said) floating above the piano like clouds lazily reflecting on a fast-running river. Both men, gloriously, themselves.

Webster again, this time with fellow Ellingtonian Sweets Webster. Ben and Sweets is one of my favourite albums because it's two old swing veterans, in the age of bebop, just getting together and doing their thing. Both men, naturally, themselves. 

 

So what's the relevance to pro wrestling?  You have likely worked it out for yourselves already, but this IS the navel gazing thread, so: In wrestling, as in jazz.

Partly, greatness comes in many forms. 

Partly, it's important to be true to yourself.

if Hampton, Rich, and Tatum hadn't gone all out like that it probably would have been disappointing. Them pushing each other to play more, more, more, faster, faster, faster is exhilarating. 

(Kind of like Kenny and Ospreay, for example).

If Tatum had toned down his act to accommodate Webster or if Webster had tried to play as many notes as Tatum, we'd have been robbed of a genuine masterpiece.

(Maybe Samoa Joe vs Darby Allin or Hobbs vs Fenix work as examples of near-masterpieces that worked because both guys just stayed true to themselves. Or, like Tana vs Suzuki or Kenny vs Ishii).

If Ben and Sweets was two legends of swing trying to keep up with the times by playing like Parker & Gillespie, it would pretty likely be one of my LEAST favourite albums. 

(May Suzuki & Ishii keep playing the hits forever, particularly when they face each other. Also Punk & Kojima were certainly better served by not trying to work a full-on go! go! go! style).

Thank you for coming to my Ted talk.

 

Edited June 27 by Gordlow

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

You guys wanna hear Bodyguard singing his AJPW entrance theme? Of course you do! Do you wanna hear Bodyguard and Gordlow duetting (badly) on Terry Funk's theme? Well, too bad. I'm gonna post that, too. Went to the Bodybar a couple of weeks ago with my good friend (also Canadian, now living in the Tokyo area) who used to post here as The Cobra 2. Had a GREAT time. This is another "goodbye for now" post from me. Partly I am busy with other stuff. Partly I have grown terribly weary of the bad faith posters and arguments about meaningless rumours more or less dominating the discussion here these days. Ignore function doesn't help when too many people keep taking the bait. It's actually affecting my ability to enjoy wrestling to the fullest. (as opposed to helping me enjoy wrestling more, which is what I  usually get out of the DVDVR boards). Congrats, Bad Faith Army! You've managed to (indirectly) troll Gordlow off the board, temporarily at least. Know that I love discussing wrestling and sharing laughs with the big handful of you who still post here in good faith. Know that I am sorry to miss out on Secret Santo. I'll continue to lurk, casually. I'll see ya when I see ya.

Gonna post a couple of pictures here (in this post) too when I have time. Let somebody love you, before it's too late.

Edited August 18 by Gordlow

[Curt McGirt]

Let's make this clear: If anyone pushes Gordi any further away they get Cashed. No. Excuses. 

[Octopus]

My bucket list involves drinking with @Gordlow

[Log]

On 8/18/2023 at 7:39 AM, Curt McGirt said:

Let's make this clear: If anyone pushes Gordi any further away they get Cashed. No. Excuses. 

I heard it was CM Punk that sent Gordlow home. 

[Octopus]

1 hour ago, Log said:

I heard it was CM Punk that sent Gordlow home. 

He was trying to use his real 22 inch pythons