AEW Navel-Gazing Thread Number Two

[Curt McGirt]

I'm proud that this thread is still going, long long after I used "navel-gazing" to describe the talk. (Same with the Politics thread in the Discord changing to "gaycommunistchat")

[Shartnado]

49 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

I'm proud that this thread is still going, long long after I used "navel-gazing" to describe the talk. (Same with the Politics thread in the Discord changing to "gaycommunistchat")

Or "totallynormaltalk"

[Curt McGirt]

Well I wasn't responsible for that one 

[NikoBaltimore]

On 1/3/2025 at 12:48 PM, Curt McGirt said:

I'm proud that this thread is still going, long long after I used "navel-gazing" to describe the talk. (Same with the Politics thread in the Discord changing to "gaycommunistchat")

I'll have you know my friend loved that name so much if he ever does a politics section on his Discord he's using it.

Gordi is living the best life, isn't he?  I think some wrestling fans wish to have those connections like that with companies they love and he's out there doing it.  That's really awesome, dude.

As for me taking a month off of the AEW section of this board has been needed.  I still find I want to largely stay away from the TV threads but hope they're not as negative as they have been.  AEW has many faults but sometimes it's best to get away from it all, watch with ones own eyes and process it.    I'm not saying it'll make you like or dislike AEW more but at least whatever you think is all you and not based off of what is said elsewhere.  AEW is still really good, great even.  I'm still as invested in them as I was day one and especially now I'm thankful they exist.

[SovietShooter]

On 1/8/2025 at 1:21 PM, NikoBaltimore said:

  I still find I want to largely stay away from the TV threads but hope they're not as negative as they have been. 

Unfortunately, they are.

What I don't get is that some folks clearly state that they don't watch the show, or they FF thru what they "don't like", but then comment and criticize how nothing makes sense, or they don't know what is going on. 

[NikoBaltimore]

It's cool.  I mainly check out the awesome song choice Dolfan picks, maybe first couple posts and that's about it.  Unless I feel a need to say something else post-show I'm good.

[just drew]

On 1/8/2025 at 1:21 PM, NikoBaltimore said:

I'll have you know my friend loved that name so much if he ever does a politics section on his Discord he's using it.

Gordi is living the best life, isn't he?  I think some wrestling fans wish to have those connections like that with companies they love and he's out there doing it.  That's really awesome, dude.

As for me taking a month off of the AEW section of this board has been needed.  I still find I want to largely stay away from the TV threads but hope they're not as negative as they have been.  AEW has many faults but sometimes it's best to get away from it all, watch with ones own eyes and process it.    I'm not saying it'll make you like or dislike AEW more but at least whatever you think is all you and not based off of what is said elsewhere.  AEW is still really good, great even.  I'm still as invested in them as I was day one and especially now I'm thankful they exist.

I really should do this. 

[RazorbladeKiss87]

The Starks reports are really helping me rationalize not being into AEW anymore. I know that I should never believe anything someone in the wrestling business says but damn, I bought into the "A company for the fans and wrestlers. TK is one of us." hype. The Starks stuff isn't really shocking by itself, just another sign that maybe the good of the wrestling world and wrestlers as a whole isn't what TK wants. 

[Gordi the BJW fan]

LEMME TELLYA SOMTHIN' BROTHER!!

Who was that jabronie on here who was complaining that The Moxter wasn't keeping his promise to use his endless push to get younger wrestlers over?  

Just look at this list, BROTHER:

Cope! He's coming for the title! Guy has a nickname for a name! What's younger than that?

Christian Cage! When will he cash in? Everyone's on tenterhooks!

Jeff Jarrett! He's gonna go over Brother Claudi, then he's coming after The Moxter! That's how you get the young boys over, BROTHER!

The Hurt Syndicate! Combined age a sprightly 97! 

(EDIT: And Canadian Young Lad Chris Jericho! Obviously The Moxter's vision of a grimdark and serious AEW needs to include a team-up with Brother Lionheart, brrrrrother!

WHATCHYA GONNA DO?!?!

AEW stands for All Ex WWE!

 

(To be clear, I myself am  f'n 59 years aulde, and Shelton Benjamin has obviously been excellent in AEW thus far)

 

BUT:

 

Damn, I loved All Elite Wrestling. A mix of 90s All Japan, FMW, and goofy indie wrestling, not afraid to take big risks, emphasising the tag division, giving "unknown" indie wrestlers a real chance to grow and shine and "climb that ladder" and respecting the knowledge and intelligence of their fan base.

I'd been dreaming of something like that, for years.

I still kind of enjoyed the "challenge brand" version, SESE (Some Elite Sports Entertainment) though every step toward the mainstream, every attempt to seem more polished and professional, and *particularly* every time they brought in a new wrestler with "star power" and pushed loveable goofs like John Silver and Nicky Boy and Abadon further down (and, eventually, off) the card it killed me a little. There was still a ton of great wrestling and room in the booking for an occasional surprise. 

I genuinely dislike All Ex WWE. Particularly the boring and predictable booking where the heels ALWAYS have to cheat to win and if a heel loses they IMMEDIATELY get their heat back. It's dispiriting. 

And: Fuck the constant grimdark edgelord bullshit. Quit trying to be Game of Thrones. You were SO GOOD at being Ted Lasso. 

The world could really use a little extra joy right now. Why you wanna end every show with yet another boring predictable dispiriting heel beat-down. We are WAY past the point of building toward a sufficient catharsis.

Best possible outcome reaction now is "Thank fuck that's over."

 

 It's in that spirit that Okada vs Ishii became the straw that broke the back of the last lingering threads of my love for All Elite Wrestling. The whole idea of that metaphor is that final straws are not big things. They are just one little thing too many.

 

(How far has my love fallen? I couldn't be arsed to go to see Wrestle Dynasty live even though I could have stayed with wrestling friends in the Tokyo area and had a great time around the show. Three years ago, nothing could have kept me away).

 

Okada and Ishii had one of the greatest G1 matches EVER. Which is REALLY saying something. And obviously it was setting my hopes too high to wish for something similar. But sacrificing that possibility on the altar of "Heels ALWAYS have to cheat to win" was my last straw.

 

(For now?)

 

Also: I hate to say it, but "Hurr hurr hurr, he kicked him in the balls, flipped him the bird, and called him a bitch!" is some VERY Vince-ian bullshit. Was Chris Charleton right? Fucks sake.

 

Anyway, someone please pm me when the pendulum swings the other way again.

 

EDIT: Fuck it, let's end on a positive note. My complaints here are 100% sincere, and I am legit done being a regular viewer until things change, but I really appreciate that AEW will still give us stuff like this:

 

 

Edited January 24 by Gordi the recovering AEW f

[Gordi the BJW fan]

So: Top of the men's division is Dean Ambrose vs Cope with extremely likely Christian involvement being the most likely "big surprise" to spice that up.

Which, uh... Is that really what ANYONE is asking for atop the men's division? Anyone?

Meanwhile: You bring in Sasha Banks obviously planning to immediately build your shows around her on top. Finally! A REAL superduperstar to build around. Only, her grating WWE promo style IMMEDIATELY turns the crowd against her But you're still gonna hammer away with her on top? 

I know there's one guy posting here who actually wants that. But I can't think of anyone else who does?

 

The undercard still has amazing action every week. How could it not, with that insanely stacked roster? And the Toni/Mariah story has been an absolute success. 

So we were at a balance point. Horseshit on top but excellent wrestling underneath.

 

My personal first "last straw" tipping point was Ishii vs Okada ending with nut shot/bird flip/ "...bitch!" because it felt like proof that EVERYTHING was going to be forced into a " heels always cheat to win" template and visiting Japanese wrestlers were no longer going to be booked as anything special. 

 

My personal current "last straw" is Nicky Boy and Abadon's contracts being allowed to expire because it is absolute rock solid proof that the general vibe of AEW has shifted entirely away from "giant indie with tons of Japanese and Mexican wrestlers" which was my absolute dream come true, hard into "WWE Lite with pre-established Vince-approved superstars on top" which is a fucking nightmare for me and the absolute LAST thing I wanted. And an utterly BAFFLING shift to make, from both a business and artistic sense, when actual WWE is white hot right now and anyone craving sports entertainment is just going to watch their "product" now anyway.

 

AEW needs to rediscover their identity.

 

We'll see what happens on Revolution... But my strong sense is that this PPV is likely my last ride with AEW as a serious fan. Which is fine. Presumably everyone has had enough of my near-constant bitching anyway.

 

I'll still pop in from time to time if I have something positive to say or if something particularly chat-worthy happens (Eddie Kingston returning, Danielson dropping by, Jeff Cobb showing up, ROH getting TV, Kyusei Ninja Ranmaru or Fuminori Abe getting a contract...) 

 

I'll also post in other threads and do road reports from here in Japan. And lurk.

 

But there's no sense in continuing to beg for a return to the AEW I loved so much or continuing to rail against the sportsentertainmentification of All Ex WWE. Everybody knows that the war is over. Everybody knows that the good guys lost.

 

Sincerely, thanks to everyone who has posted here and in the Artistic Freedom and Personal Expression thread. I've enjoyed the discussion tremendously.

 

 

Edit: If you scroll up to the previous post, it's me one month ago talking about the same shit, and I SPECIFICALLY mention Nicky Boy and Abadon

Edited March 8 by Gordi the BJW fan

[twiztor]

love ya, Gordi. i agree with all of your larger points. I'm still watching Dynamite weekly, and catching PPVs, but my interest has severely dropped for many of the same reasons you mentioned. 

i loved the pre-pandemic era because i was discovering so many new wrestlers and characters i hadn't been exposed to before. i loved when a Japanese talent or indy star would show up for one-shot or short run. it really gave the feel that "anything could happen". 

i appreciated the pandemic era, mostly for the ancilliary stuff. the weekly YouTube BTE shows were appointment TV. The core group rallied around each other, and delivered. in retrospect, i really think it helped continue the indie/family vibe longer than it otherwise would have.

the next year or so had some amazing stories start to pay off. It capitalized off all of that goodwill from everything that had come before, continued to bring in outside talent, and seemed to really find its footing. Some of the rougher edges were smoothed off, which was a plus for me, but really when you started posting about the company pivoting away from your tastes.  

i think the massive shift happened with CM Punk coming in. I'm not putting the blame on him, or even his coming in by itself, just using it as a major shift in focus. Dark/Elevation/Rampage were all sacrificed for Collision, which quickly morphed from a quirky alternative to Dynamite 2.0. Punk showed that there was still fan interest in WWE talent, and seemingly Coach Tony went in heavy on the recruitment drive. Mercedes Mone might be the biggest sign that this isn't always the best move.

the last year or two have traded fine grit sandpaper for a heavy duty powersander. Everything feels 1000 times more homogenous than it had before. with WWE also getting back on the positive fan reaction side, it leaves AEW feeling like "more of the same" at best, and "lesser than" at worst. 

[username]

I had a thought along these lines last week, and I'm gonna be honest I haven't thought it all the way through so I reserve the right to eventually decide otherwise or have a bunch of people call it dumb... but I think back to where AEW was when it started and despite whatever issues it had it was something different, and as intriguing as it was then the potential future was even more so. You had Mox and Jericho as the big name established in the US guys and the Elite as the top of the indie food chain/big in Japan guys, but ultimately that was just gonna be a bridge for what could come down the line for wrestlers who wouldn't have gotten that big chance elsewhere but maybe could now. Darby and Orange were the two immediate standouts in that regard but there were others.

We're now 5 or so years removed from there and... it almost feels like ground has been lost, that rather than be closer to that future we're farther away. Mox and Jericho are still all over the place to diminished results, 50-ish year olds Edge and Lashley are among the most pushed acts in the company, heck to be honest one can even toss in Okada working most of his AEW run at 2/3 speed while his younger opponents go out of their way to pick up the slack. Sting was there and was cool but also just ate everyone up.

 

This isn't to say that no younger/AEW "homegrown" talent isn't doing stuff of note or that all the older/established elsewhere guys are worthless/should be run out... but I think it'd be a lie to say that this was the future that was envisioned. At the very least the balance feels very wrong and hence why I totally get why one can look at what's given and feel that AEW has lost its identity.

[zendragon]

On 3/7/2025 at 5:05 PM, Gordi the BJW fan said:

So: Top of the men's division is Dean Ambrose vs Cope with extremely likely Christian involvement being the most likely "big surprise" to spice that up.

Which, uh... Is that really what ANYONE is asking for atop the men's division? Anyone?

Meanwhile: You bring in Sasha Banks obviously planning to immediately build your shows around her on top. Finally! A REAL superduperstar to build around. Only, her grating WWE promo style IMMEDIATELY turns the crowd against her But you're still gonna hammer away with her on top? 

I know there's one guy posting here who actually wants that. But I can't think of anyone else who does?

 

The undercard still has amazing action every week. How could it not, with that insanely stacked roster? And the Toni/Mariah story has been an absolute success. 

So we were at a balance point. Horseshit on top but excellent wrestling underneath.

 

My personal first "last straw" tipping point was Ishii vs Okada ending with nut shot/bird flip/ "...bitch!" because it felt like proof that EVERYTHING was going to be forced into a " heels always cheat to win" template and visiting Japanese wrestlers were no longer going to be booked as anything special. 

 

My personal current "last straw" is Nicky Boy and Abadon's contracts being allowed to expire because it is absolute rock solid proof that the general vibe of AEW has shifted entirely away from "giant indie with tons of Japanese and Mexican wrestlers" which was my absolute dream come true, hard into "WWE Lite with pre-established Vince-approved superstars on top" which is a fucking nightmare for me and the absolute LAST thing I wanted. And an utterly BAFFLING shift to make, from both a business and artistic sense, when actual WWE is white hot right now and anyone craving sports entertainment is just going to watch their "product" now anyway.

 

AEW needs to rediscover their identity.

 

We'll see what happens on Revolution... But my strong sense is that this PPV is likely my last ride with AEW as a serious fan. Which is fine. Presumably everyone has had enough of my near-constant bitching anyway.

 

I'll still pop in from time to time if I have something positive to say or if something particularly chat-worthy happens (Eddie Kingston returning, Danielson dropping by, Jeff Cobb showing up, ROH getting TV, Kyusei Ninja Ranmaru or Fuminori Abe getting a contract...) 

 

I'll also post in other threads and do road reports from here in Japan. And lurk.

 

But there's no sense in continuing to beg for a return to the AEW I loved so much or continuing to rail against the sportsentertainmentification of All Ex WWE. Everybody knows that the war is over. Everybody knows that the good guys lost.

 

Sincerely, thanks to everyone who has posted here and in the Artistic Freedom and Personal Expression thread. I've enjoyed the discussion tremendously.

 

 

Edit: If you scroll up to the previous post, it's me one month ago talking about the same shit, and I SPECIFICALLY mention Nicky Boy and Abadon

Dubuya See Dubuya?

[Technico Support]

I was watching Collision and at first I was like "they are wasting the main event of the last show before the PPV on two guys who are working the preshow.  WTF is this?"  Then I was like "you know what, fuck it.  It's not my company and this is a good match."

One thing, though: AEW really is a company built around one show.  Collision featured only three people (including a tag team) in matches that were working the PPV proper.  Everything else was just placeholders.  Collision has just replaced Rampage as the show, with usually decent wrestling, that you can avoid and it won't matter.

[Octopus]

Am I just a Danielson mark? I have this unquenchable thirst for Dragon that has not been met since his retirement. All food tastes like plain oatmeal now. Colors have less vibrancy. Music sounds like a monotone audiobook of an out of date printer. A cool breeze feels like a cavalcade of shirt tags slightly sticking out across my body. Have I said the color thing yet? Like bright yellow is like looking at a picture of Big Bird’s face on the computer with the display settings to the darkest option. I know he's smiling, but the twinkle in his eyes isn’t visible.

I just don’t know anymore.

[Curt McGirt]

It really does make me wonder... is he coming back? 

[twiztor]

On 3/13/2025 at 8:16 AM, Octopus said:

Am I just a Danielson mark? I have this unquenchable thirst for Dragon that has not been met since his retirement. All food tastes like plain oatmeal now. Colors have less vibrancy. Music sounds like a monotone audiobook of an out of date printer. A cool breeze feels like a cavalcade of shirt tags slightly sticking out across my body. Have I said the color thing yet? Like bright yellow is like looking at a picture of Big Bird’s face on the computer with the display settings to the darkest option. I know he's smiling, but the twinkle in his eyes isn’t visible.

I just don’t know anymore.

Octopus = Natural confirmed

[Octopus]

1 hour ago, twiztor said:

Octopus = Natural confirmed

It’s like my grandma always said “You can’t spell ‘Thus … Cantaloupes Riot’ without  ‘ @The Natural is … Octopus’

Edited March 15 by Octopus

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

10 hours ago, Octopus said:

It’s like my grandma always said “You can’t spell ‘Thus … Cantaloupes Riot’ without  ‘ @The Natural is … Octopus’

Someone better constrain those cantaloupes before we unleash the singularity.

[Shartnado]

On 3/15/2025 at 5:44 AM, Octopus said:

It’s like my grandma always said “You can’t spell ‘Thus … Cantaloupes Riot’ without  ‘ @The Natural is … Octopus’

Huh, never picked up on that one before, which is odd, with such a common phrase. The more you learn...

[twiztor]

23 minutes ago, Shartnado said:

Huh, never picked up on that one before, which is odd, with such a common phrase. The more you learn...

i'm working on adding it to my lexicon. only used it once so far and wasn't met with as weird looks as i expected

[Shartnado]

2 minutes ago, twiztor said:

i'm working on adding it to my lexicon. only used it once so far and wasn't met with as weird looks as i expected

Good on you! Keep using it!

[Gordi the BJW fan]

BIG JAPAN ROAD REPORT

I'll add a ton of pics to this, but I need to change browsers to do so. (Edit: pics added)

Today's show was in the Imazato neighbourhood of Osaka, near the wonderful Korea Town of Tsuruhashi. As usual I met friends there before the show and we went shopping for snacks and drinks for ourselves and each other and for "the boys" It's become a lovely tradition, just a very nice part of my life. Likewise the feasting afterward. No pictures of that today, I'm afraid. Food was amazing, though. Sushi and yakitori, mainly, and the beer flowed like wine...

 

Hey! I met Hashimoto and Ohtani today! 

Daisuke Hashimoto and Joji Ohtani, but  still... Very nice guys. And terrific in the ring.

 

Hey Natural! I bought a new zip hoodie! One I can wear with pride (now that AEW has gone mainstream and lowest common denominator) Heath is a Japanese clothing brand. Normally I don't wear clothes with brand logos but it was the only one in my size (Japanese 3L)

I bought it from Kamitani. he was really nice, and helpful. As was everyone. I possibly made two new friends today, Rie and Subin (or maybe Soobin). Looking forward to seeing if they light up when they see me at the next show. In May. Assuming we all make it out.

 

 

In 2012 I took shirtless pics with Quiet Storm. Today we did a new one! That was fun. He's ENOURMOUS now. Damn near Sekimoto size. Legit 50 cm arms.

Semi main was an ultimate BMMSM match: ISHIKAWA vs SEKIMOTO!!! They beat the absolute shit out of each other. It was insane. The main was a light tubes tag title death match between Bakka Gaijin and AKIRA & Miyamoto. (GCW/MLW AKIRA, not Nogami...) He really tapped a gusher. At first I thought it was his eye, but in fact it was near his temple. It was bad enough to be legit disturbing. Talking to him afterward, he seemed pretty shook up, in the moment, and I cannot blame him at all. 

Pondo bled some, too. And hammered spikes into Miyamoto's head. And so on...

It was insane that six guys took things that far in the last two matches of a house show that wasn't even being taped! I spent more than half an hour after the show sweeping up broken light tubes and jamming (often blood-soaked) streamers into garbage bags. That was one hell of an interesting experience!! There's glass embedded in the soles of my shoes now That's a unique souvenir!

 

I'm basically part of the furniture there now. Everyone is used to seeing me help out after their Osaka shows. That means a lot to me. Legit warms my heart.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 6 by Gordi the BJW fan

[Gordi the BJW fan]

Big Japan Wrestling Road Report May 17, 2025 Yodogawa Community Center, Osaka Japan: Excuse the blocks of text. I cannot post pics on Chrome but I can't make paragraphs in Firefox. I'm going to try and do the whole thing on Firefox this time. I'll be saving occasionally so as not to lose everything I have typed. The finished report will have an even ONE DOZEN pictures. As always, it was a great time. Lots of good wrestling, an INSANE main event, a lot of delicious food and drink, and many kind and friendly people. I think this was my first time in Yodogawa/Juso. Like pretty much every neighbourhood in Osaka it is interesting to walk around and there are tons of places to get food and drink. I immediately got a couple of big cans of beer then I bumped into a guy wearing a LIJ hoodie and it turned out he was from Tokyo and he was going to the show, too. So we set out to find the venue together. When he figured we were really close, I went into a 7-11 to buy a couple of sandos because I hadn't eaten yet (even though it was about 4:30 pm) and I didn't want to goon my beer on an empty stomach. There were two UNREASONABLY hawt women lounging outside the convenience store and I asked them if they knew where the community center was. They got all bouncy and said "Me, too! Me, too!" by which they meant that they were also going to the Big Japan show. Turns out their seats were right in front of mine. And "The Boys" kept spilling out of the ring and doing business right in front of them. That was REALLY entertaining. Also turns out that the community centre was DIRECTLY across the street from the 7-11

The Main Event Trios Death Match was absolutely f'n INSANE. Chaos. Madness.  But, no light tubes this time, which made clean-up WAY easier. Pondo is pretty much everyone's favourite guy now. Both in and out of kayfabe. He so obiously LOVES being here (in Japan. And in Big Japan) and doing his very particular thing night after night. Living his best life. AKIRA was in a MUCH better head space this time around, which really made me happy. There was a near-botch on the finish of the main event, which to me and also to my new friend Yuka, actually made it BETTER and I got to tell him that but I think he thought I was just being nice. I totally meant it, though. It looked dangerous as fuck but nobody got injured. It also kind of came across as an accidental Sabu tribute, which I (obviously) mean as a huge compliment. Also there was a guy there who looks a tiny bit like Okada in my opinion and he was wearing a Sabu shirt and when I was moved by that he and (particularly) his buddy got really moved by that... It was a nice, genuine, wrestling fan moment. A bit misty, to be honest. And Pondo shouted out Sabu on the mic, too. And Dale and Akira did the Sabu gesture... And we all did another gesture...

 

It's 2:30 am here! We went to our friend Yuki's karaoke bar after the show. I caught the last train home. I need to wrap this Road Report up quickly. Turns out Leighton Buzzard was NOT the first unfriendly gaijin wrestler I met in Japan. I'm still batting a thousand in terms of everyone being genuinely likable. Buzzard was super friendly. And very good in the ring. I was happy to see he's on the poster for the September BJW show in Osaka, so I'll see him again. He was champ of a Scottish fed (ICW?) and made a name for himself in a match with Ospreay back in 2023 or so, when Bruv was doing his fight everyone, fight everywhere goodbye to the indies tour. I have a million little stories just from today... Let's see... My friend Bodyguard was there but couldn't fight because he hurt his knee. We reminisced about our first time drinking together, back in 2011... The upside to no Bodygaaaaa was I got to meet Sean Lao, a wrestler from Funk Country! I know this is shocking, but he was... Super nice. Very athletic in the ring. For the first time, I got a little present for helping out (some healthy drink powder) and also a delicious sando! I  appreciate being appreciated. I was wearing my Has Been Drinking t-shirt, which some of you will recall is Hangman Page merch, and Pondo and Dale and Jacob Crane all cracked jokes with me about it... I think I must sometimes come across as full of shit with how much fun and how delicious and how kind and friendly everything and everyone always is... But I am legit living some kind of charmed Wrestling Fan in Japan life. And loving it. Anyway, pictures:

     

 

 

 

 

Edited May 17 by Gordi the BJW fan

[Curt McGirt]

Is that Ito in the jean shorts? Because if so... man, he's lookin' rough. With the lack of muscle tone he's resembling Taue, actually.