AEW Navel-Gazing Thread Number Two

[Curt McGirt]

I'm proud that this thread is still going, long long after I used "navel-gazing" to describe the talk. (Same with the Politics thread in the Discord changing to "gaycommunistchat")

[Shartnado]

49 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

I'm proud that this thread is still going, long long after I used "navel-gazing" to describe the talk. (Same with the Politics thread in the Discord changing to "gaycommunistchat")

Or "totallynormaltalk"

[Curt McGirt]

Well I wasn't responsible for that one 

[NikoBaltimore]

On 1/3/2025 at 12:48 PM, Curt McGirt said:

I'm proud that this thread is still going, long long after I used "navel-gazing" to describe the talk. (Same with the Politics thread in the Discord changing to "gaycommunistchat")

I'll have you know my friend loved that name so much if he ever does a politics section on his Discord he's using it.

Gordi is living the best life, isn't he?  I think some wrestling fans wish to have those connections like that with companies they love and he's out there doing it.  That's really awesome, dude.

As for me taking a month off of the AEW section of this board has been needed.  I still find I want to largely stay away from the TV threads but hope they're not as negative as they have been.  AEW has many faults but sometimes it's best to get away from it all, watch with ones own eyes and process it.    I'm not saying it'll make you like or dislike AEW more but at least whatever you think is all you and not based off of what is said elsewhere.  AEW is still really good, great even.  I'm still as invested in them as I was day one and especially now I'm thankful they exist.

[SovietShooter]

On 1/8/2025 at 1:21 PM, NikoBaltimore said:

  I still find I want to largely stay away from the TV threads but hope they're not as negative as they have been. 

Unfortunately, they are.

What I don't get is that some folks clearly state that they don't watch the show, or they FF thru what they "don't like", but then comment and criticize how nothing makes sense, or they don't know what is going on. 

[NikoBaltimore]

It's cool.  I mainly check out the awesome song choice Dolfan picks, maybe first couple posts and that's about it.  Unless I feel a need to say something else post-show I'm good.

[just drew]

On 1/8/2025 at 1:21 PM, NikoBaltimore said:

I'll have you know my friend loved that name so much if he ever does a politics section on his Discord he's using it.

Gordi is living the best life, isn't he?  I think some wrestling fans wish to have those connections like that with companies they love and he's out there doing it.  That's really awesome, dude.

As for me taking a month off of the AEW section of this board has been needed.  I still find I want to largely stay away from the TV threads but hope they're not as negative as they have been.  AEW has many faults but sometimes it's best to get away from it all, watch with ones own eyes and process it.    I'm not saying it'll make you like or dislike AEW more but at least whatever you think is all you and not based off of what is said elsewhere.  AEW is still really good, great even.  I'm still as invested in them as I was day one and especially now I'm thankful they exist.

I really should do this. 

[RazorbladeKiss87]

The Starks reports are really helping me rationalize not being into AEW anymore. I know that I should never believe anything someone in the wrestling business says but damn, I bought into the "A company for the fans and wrestlers. TK is one of us." hype. The Starks stuff isn't really shocking by itself, just another sign that maybe the good of the wrestling world and wrestlers as a whole isn't what TK wants. 

[Gordi the BJW fan]

LEMME TELLYA SOMTHIN' BROTHER!!

Who was that jabronie on here who was complaining that The Moxter wasn't keeping his promise to use his endless push to get younger wrestlers over?  

Just look at this list, BROTHER:

Cope! He's coming for the title! Guy has a nickname for a name! What's younger than that?

Christian Cage! When will he cash in? Everyone's on tenterhooks!

Jeff Jarrett! He's gonna go over Brother Claudi, then he's coming after The Moxter! That's how you get the young boys over, BROTHER!

The Hurt Syndicate! Combined age a sprightly 97! 

(EDIT: And Canadian Young Lad Chris Jericho! Obviously The Moxter's vision of a grimdark and serious AEW needs to include a team-up with Brother Lionheart, brrrrrother!

WHATCHYA GONNA DO?!?!

AEW stands for All Ex WWE!

 

(To be clear, I myself am  f'n 59 years aulde, and Shelton Benjamin has obviously been excellent in AEW thus far)

 

BUT:

 

Damn, I loved All Elite Wrestling. A mix of 90s All Japan, FMW, and goofy indie wrestling, not afraid to take big risks, emphasising the tag division, giving "unknown" indie wrestlers a real chance to grow and shine and "climb that ladder" and respecting the knowledge and intelligence of their fan base.

I'd been dreaming of something like that, for years.

I still kind of enjoyed the "challenge brand" version, SESE (Some Elite Sports Entertainment) though every step toward the mainstream, every attempt to seem more polished and professional, and *particularly* every time they brought in a new wrestler with "star power" and pushed loveable goofs like John Silver and Nicky Boy and Abadon further down (and, eventually, off) the card it killed me a little. There was still a ton of great wrestling and room in the booking for an occasional surprise. 

I genuinely dislike All Ex WWE. Particularly the boring and predictable booking where the heels ALWAYS have to cheat to win and if a heel loses they IMMEDIATELY get their heat back. It's dispiriting. 

And: Fuck the constant grimdark edgelord bullshit. Quit trying to be Game of Thrones. You were SO GOOD at being Ted Lasso. 

The world could really use a little extra joy right now. Why you wanna end every show with yet another boring predictable dispiriting heel beat-down. We are WAY past the point of building toward a sufficient catharsis.

Best possible outcome reaction now is "Thank fuck that's over."

 

 It's in that spirit that Okada vs Ishii became the straw that broke the back of the last lingering threads of my love for All Elite Wrestling. The whole idea of that metaphor is that final straws are not big things. They are just one little thing too many.

 

(How far has my love fallen? I couldn't be arsed to go to see Wrestle Dynasty live even though I could have stayed with wrestling friends in the Tokyo area and had a great time around the show. Three years ago, nothing could have kept me away).

 

Okada and Ishii had one of the greatest G1 matches EVER. Which is REALLY saying something. And obviously it was setting my hopes too high to wish for something similar. But sacrificing that possibility on the altar of "Heels ALWAYS have to cheat to win" was my last straw.

 

(For now?)

 

Also: I hate to say it, but "Hurr hurr hurr, he kicked him in the balls, flipped him the bird, and called him a bitch!" is some VERY Vince-ian bullshit. Was Chris Charleton right? Fucks sake.

 

Anyway, someone please pm me when the pendulum swings the other way again.

 

EDIT: Fuck it, let's end on a positive note. My complaints here are 100% sincere, and I am legit done being a regular viewer until things change, but I really appreciate that AEW will still give us stuff like this:

 

 

Edited January 24 by Gordi the recovering AEW f

[Gordi the BJW fan]

So: Top of the men's division is Dean Ambrose vs Cope with extremely likely Christian involvement being the most likely "big surprise" to spice that up.

Which, uh... Is that really what ANYONE is asking for atop the men's division? Anyone?

Meanwhile: You bring in Sasha Banks obviously planning to immediately build your shows around her on top. Finally! A REAL superduperstar to build around. Only, her grating WWE promo style IMMEDIATELY turns the crowd against her But you're still gonna hammer away with her on top? 

I know there's one guy posting here who actually wants that. But I can't think of anyone else who does?

 

The undercard still has amazing action every week. How could it not, with that insanely stacked roster? And the Toni/Mariah story has been an absolute success. 

So we were at a balance point. Horseshit on top but excellent wrestling underneath.

 

My personal first "last straw" tipping point was Ishii vs Okada ending with nut shot/bird flip/ "...bitch!" because it felt like proof that EVERYTHING was going to be forced into a " heels always cheat to win" template and visiting Japanese wrestlers were no longer going to be booked as anything special. 

 

My personal current "last straw" is Nicky Boy and Abadon's contracts being allowed to expire because it is absolute rock solid proof that the general vibe of AEW has shifted entirely away from "giant indie with tons of Japanese and Mexican wrestlers" which was my absolute dream come true, hard into "WWE Lite with pre-established Vince-approved superstars on top" which is a fucking nightmare for me and the absolute LAST thing I wanted. And an utterly BAFFLING shift to make, from both a business and artistic sense, when actual WWE is white hot right now and anyone craving sports entertainment is just going to watch their "product" now anyway.

 

AEW needs to rediscover their identity.

 

We'll see what happens on Revolution... But my strong sense is that this PPV is likely my last ride with AEW as a serious fan. Which is fine. Presumably everyone has had enough of my near-constant bitching anyway.

 

I'll still pop in from time to time if I have something positive to say or if something particularly chat-worthy happens (Eddie Kingston returning, Danielson dropping by, Jeff Cobb showing up, ROH getting TV, Kyusei Ninja Ranmaru or Fuminori Abe getting a contract...) 

 

I'll also post in other threads and do road reports from here in Japan. And lurk.

 

But there's no sense in continuing to beg for a return to the AEW I loved so much or continuing to rail against the sportsentertainmentification of All Ex WWE. Everybody knows that the war is over. Everybody knows that the good guys lost.

 

Sincerely, thanks to everyone who has posted here and in the Artistic Freedom and Personal Expression thread. I've enjoyed the discussion tremendously.

 

 

Edit: If you scroll up to the previous post, it's me one month ago talking about the same shit, and I SPECIFICALLY mention Nicky Boy and Abadon

Edited March 8 by Gordi the BJW fan

[twiztor]

love ya, Gordi. i agree with all of your larger points. I'm still watching Dynamite weekly, and catching PPVs, but my interest has severely dropped for many of the same reasons you mentioned. 

i loved the pre-pandemic era because i was discovering so many new wrestlers and characters i hadn't been exposed to before. i loved when a Japanese talent or indy star would show up for one-shot or short run. it really gave the feel that "anything could happen". 

i appreciated the pandemic era, mostly for the ancilliary stuff. the weekly YouTube BTE shows were appointment TV. The core group rallied around each other, and delivered. in retrospect, i really think it helped continue the indie/family vibe longer than it otherwise would have.

the next year or so had some amazing stories start to pay off. It capitalized off all of that goodwill from everything that had come before, continued to bring in outside talent, and seemed to really find its footing. Some of the rougher edges were smoothed off, which was a plus for me, but really when you started posting about the company pivoting away from your tastes.  

i think the massive shift happened with CM Punk coming in. I'm not putting the blame on him, or even his coming in by itself, just using it as a major shift in focus. Dark/Elevation/Rampage were all sacrificed for Collision, which quickly morphed from a quirky alternative to Dynamite 2.0. Punk showed that there was still fan interest in WWE talent, and seemingly Coach Tony went in heavy on the recruitment drive. Mercedes Mone might be the biggest sign that this isn't always the best move.

the last year or two have traded fine grit sandpaper for a heavy duty powersander. Everything feels 1000 times more homogenous than it had before. with WWE also getting back on the positive fan reaction side, it leaves AEW feeling like "more of the same" at best, and "lesser than" at worst. 

[username]

I had a thought along these lines last week, and I'm gonna be honest I haven't thought it all the way through so I reserve the right to eventually decide otherwise or have a bunch of people call it dumb... but I think back to where AEW was when it started and despite whatever issues it had it was something different, and as intriguing as it was then the potential future was even more so. You had Mox and Jericho as the big name established in the US guys and the Elite as the top of the indie food chain/big in Japan guys, but ultimately that was just gonna be a bridge for what could come down the line for wrestlers who wouldn't have gotten that big chance elsewhere but maybe could now. Darby and Orange were the two immediate standouts in that regard but there were others.

We're now 5 or so years removed from there and... it almost feels like ground has been lost, that rather than be closer to that future we're farther away. Mox and Jericho are still all over the place to diminished results, 50-ish year olds Edge and Lashley are among the most pushed acts in the company, heck to be honest one can even toss in Okada working most of his AEW run at 2/3 speed while his younger opponents go out of their way to pick up the slack. Sting was there and was cool but also just ate everyone up.

 

This isn't to say that no younger/AEW "homegrown" talent isn't doing stuff of note or that all the older/established elsewhere guys are worthless/should be run out... but I think it'd be a lie to say that this was the future that was envisioned. At the very least the balance feels very wrong and hence why I totally get why one can look at what's given and feel that AEW has lost its identity.

[zendragon]

On 3/7/2025 at 5:05 PM, Gordi the BJW fan said:

So: Top of the men's division is Dean Ambrose vs Cope with extremely likely Christian involvement being the most likely "big surprise" to spice that up.

Which, uh... Is that really what ANYONE is asking for atop the men's division? Anyone?

Meanwhile: You bring in Sasha Banks obviously planning to immediately build your shows around her on top. Finally! A REAL superduperstar to build around. Only, her grating WWE promo style IMMEDIATELY turns the crowd against her But you're still gonna hammer away with her on top? 

I know there's one guy posting here who actually wants that. But I can't think of anyone else who does?

 

The undercard still has amazing action every week. How could it not, with that insanely stacked roster? And the Toni/Mariah story has been an absolute success. 

So we were at a balance point. Horseshit on top but excellent wrestling underneath.

 

My personal first "last straw" tipping point was Ishii vs Okada ending with nut shot/bird flip/ "...bitch!" because it felt like proof that EVERYTHING was going to be forced into a " heels always cheat to win" template and visiting Japanese wrestlers were no longer going to be booked as anything special. 

 

My personal current "last straw" is Nicky Boy and Abadon's contracts being allowed to expire because it is absolute rock solid proof that the general vibe of AEW has shifted entirely away from "giant indie with tons of Japanese and Mexican wrestlers" which was my absolute dream come true, hard into "WWE Lite with pre-established Vince-approved superstars on top" which is a fucking nightmare for me and the absolute LAST thing I wanted. And an utterly BAFFLING shift to make, from both a business and artistic sense, when actual WWE is white hot right now and anyone craving sports entertainment is just going to watch their "product" now anyway.

 

AEW needs to rediscover their identity.

 

We'll see what happens on Revolution... But my strong sense is that this PPV is likely my last ride with AEW as a serious fan. Which is fine. Presumably everyone has had enough of my near-constant bitching anyway.

 

I'll still pop in from time to time if I have something positive to say or if something particularly chat-worthy happens (Eddie Kingston returning, Danielson dropping by, Jeff Cobb showing up, ROH getting TV, Kyusei Ninja Ranmaru or Fuminori Abe getting a contract...) 

 

I'll also post in other threads and do road reports from here in Japan. And lurk.

 

But there's no sense in continuing to beg for a return to the AEW I loved so much or continuing to rail against the sportsentertainmentification of All Ex WWE. Everybody knows that the war is over. Everybody knows that the good guys lost.

 

Sincerely, thanks to everyone who has posted here and in the Artistic Freedom and Personal Expression thread. I've enjoyed the discussion tremendously.

 

 

Edit: If you scroll up to the previous post, it's me one month ago talking about the same shit, and I SPECIFICALLY mention Nicky Boy and Abadon

Dubuya See Dubuya?

[Technico Support]

I was watching Collision and at first I was like "they are wasting the main event of the last show before the PPV on two guys who are working the preshow.  WTF is this?"  Then I was like "you know what, fuck it.  It's not my company and this is a good match."

One thing, though: AEW really is a company built around one show.  Collision featured only three people (including a tag team) in matches that were working the PPV proper.  Everything else was just placeholders.  Collision has just replaced Rampage as the show, with usually decent wrestling, that you can avoid and it won't matter.

[Octopus]

Am I just a Danielson mark? I have this unquenchable thirst for Dragon that has not been met since his retirement. All food tastes like plain oatmeal now. Colors have less vibrancy. Music sounds like a monotone audiobook of an out of date printer. A cool breeze feels like a cavalcade of shirt tags slightly sticking out across my body. Have I said the color thing yet? Like bright yellow is like looking at a picture of Big Bird’s face on the computer with the display settings to the darkest option. I know he's smiling, but the twinkle in his eyes isn’t visible.

I just don’t know anymore.

[Curt McGirt]

It really does make me wonder... is he coming back? 

[twiztor]

On 3/13/2025 at 8:16 AM, Octopus said:

Am I just a Danielson mark? I have this unquenchable thirst for Dragon that has not been met since his retirement. All food tastes like plain oatmeal now. Colors have less vibrancy. Music sounds like a monotone audiobook of an out of date printer. A cool breeze feels like a cavalcade of shirt tags slightly sticking out across my body. Have I said the color thing yet? Like bright yellow is like looking at a picture of Big Bird’s face on the computer with the display settings to the darkest option. I know he's smiling, but the twinkle in his eyes isn’t visible.

I just don’t know anymore.

Octopus = Natural confirmed

[Octopus]

1 hour ago, twiztor said:

Octopus = Natural confirmed

It’s like my grandma always said “You can’t spell ‘Thus … Cantaloupes Riot’ without  ‘ @The Natural is … Octopus’

Edited March 15 by Octopus

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

10 hours ago, Octopus said:

It’s like my grandma always said “You can’t spell ‘Thus … Cantaloupes Riot’ without  ‘ @The Natural is … Octopus’

Someone better constrain those cantaloupes before we unleash the singularity.

[Shartnado]

On 3/15/2025 at 5:44 AM, Octopus said:

It’s like my grandma always said “You can’t spell ‘Thus … Cantaloupes Riot’ without  ‘ @The Natural is … Octopus’

Huh, never picked up on that one before, which is odd, with such a common phrase. The more you learn...

[twiztor]

23 minutes ago, Shartnado said:

Huh, never picked up on that one before, which is odd, with such a common phrase. The more you learn...

i'm working on adding it to my lexicon. only used it once so far and wasn't met with as weird looks as i expected

[Shartnado]

2 minutes ago, twiztor said:

i'm working on adding it to my lexicon. only used it once so far and wasn't met with as weird looks as i expected

Good on you! Keep using it!