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FEBRUARY 2019 WRESTLING DISCUSSION.

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17 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Wouldn't it be great if someone just called wrestlers by their Michael Cole nicknames?   He's not Seth Rollins,  he's  "THE ARCHITECT" 

Or their Matt Striker nickname. "That's not Triple H! That's The Ace of Spades!"

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The homegrown vs indie argument baffles me. Shouldn't WWE want both? They're spending millions on the Performance Center to not only refine career-long wrestlers, but to recruit and develop new talent. I see where some say Bianca Belair is a waste of space. She's been wrestling for less than three years. She is being brought along the right way. Just because she's not Io Shirai doesn't mean she isn't good or won't continue to get better. Is WWE supposed to pass over her?

It's to the point to what was once a badge of honor isn't special anymore. Over 80% of the roster has non-WWE experience. It's the homegrown talent who navigate the system and succeeded who feel different now. 

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4 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

The homegrown vs indie argument baffles me. Shouldn't WWE want both? They're spending millions on the Performance Center to not only refine career-long wrestlers, but to recruit and develop new talent. I see where some say Bianca Belair is a waste of space. She's been wrestling for less than three years. She is being brought along the right way. Just because she's not Io Shirai doesn't mean she isn't good or won't continue to get better. Is WWE supposed to pass over her?

It's to the point to what was once a badge of honor isn't special anymore. Over 80% of the roster has non-WWE experience. It's the homegrown talent who navigate the system and succeeded who feel different now. 

Who is saying this? More importantly, where is it being said?

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Considering the PC is responsible for Velveteen Dream, we should let those dudes keep on keeping on, because they're doing something really right.

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Even Dream has indie cred, he held a tag title for a Maryland promotion with Lio Rush. Though to your point, he'll be 90% NXT and WWE-developed when it's all over.

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Why is his avatar picture #FTR? Why would a member of The Revival support Fuck The Revival? Does he think the F stands for Free, and refers to letting them leave and go to AEW?

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9 minutes ago, AxB said:

Why is his avatar picture #FTR? Why would a member of The Revival support Fuck The Revival? Does he think the F stands for Free, and refers to letting them leave and go to AEW?

#FTR is Forever the Revival.

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14 hours ago, Web Conn said:

Dutch was from Scranton, Pennsylvania. It was once a coal mining town.

So he brought an item for which there is no possible use in the NW all the way across the country? Damn, I love rasslin logic once it's explained!

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2 hours ago, Craig H said:

Who is saying this? More importantly, where is it being said?

Ok, so no answer to this then? Cooooooooooool.

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I volunteer to be the guy that called Bianca Belair a waste of space if no one has already filled that role. It gives people an opportunity to drop a "Don't be so overly critical, man."

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1 hour ago, AxB said:

 Fuck The Revival

I quote myself because I feel like being a Dick.

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https://wrestlingnews.co/wwe-news/rusev-i-dont-want-to-be-forgotten-i-do-all-these-things-but-nothing-changes/

Unfortunately, I think Rusev may be too nice to play the game in WWE. So many of these people think they know what grabbing the brass ring is, but it isn't what happens out in the ring, it isn't what happens on promos, and it isn't how much merch you sell. 

You have to be a dick. If you're not one of Vince's favorite toys, then you have to be a dick to Vince and show that you're tough enough to stand up to him or hell, even fight the old man. And if it backfires, you get fired, and so what? You're free then. Vince doesn't want to fire you though. So unless Rusev takes charge of his own career backstage, I don't think he ever goes anywhere.

This is true for a lot of guys. You don't think Daniel Bryan defends himself backstage or stands up to Vince? He stood up to Vince and everyone for nearly a year to get cleared and now it sounds like he's more in charge of his destiny than ever. Same goes for Seth, but Seth benefited from him, Roman, and Dean being a unified front against completely shitty booking. If they didn't then I doubt any of them have the careers in WWE they've had.

But then there's guys like Rusev who might not ever figure out that you need to challenge the old man to get what you want.

This is probably a problem for a lot of NXT guys as well. From what many of us can tell, the entire environment and atmosphere in NXT is different than the main roster. So I bet a lot of these folks come up and expect that same nurturing environment when many aspects of it are still Lord of the Flies-esque. You also can't count on HHH protecting you. So you wind up with a lot of aw shucks I can't believe I made it here type of people coming up from NXT when they need to shake the hands they need to shake and then take a fuck you stance. You might not even have to take that stance. All it can take is showing Vince you're not afraid to talk to him. So many veterans have talked about how the newer people are afraid to even knock on Vince's door because they don't even want to interrupt him. If you can't even knock on the man's door and go into his office to talk to him then how can you ever expect him to respect you?

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Frozen tea's romantic.

Ford transmissions rattle.

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4 hours ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

Even Dream has indie cred, he held a tag title for a Maryland promotion with Lio Rush. Though to your point, he'll be 90% NXT and WWE-developed when it's all over.

In defense, saying Dream has indie cred is also representative of the same problem. 

Dream literally came to WWE's attention through being on Tough Enough. That is basically the most "this guy is absolutely a WWE creation" origin story humanly possible. 

Saying "well, Dream once held a tag title with Lio Rush in Maryland, he's got indie cred" is part of the problem that leads to people claiming Bianca Belair is a waste of space, because it's basically saying"well, Dream's in NXT and he's GOOD, so he HAS to be an indie darling!"

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No one thinks Belair is a waste of space, and fans overwhelmingly don't care whether someone wrestled on the indies. People just want to invest--that can be in a fun gimmick, spectacular athleticism, or a fondly remembered run from years before. The latter isn't an example of some impossible or unfair bias; it's the same reason you're more concerned with your friend's day than a random person who lives on the other side of town, and more concerned for them than someone on the other side of the world. Familiarity matters, but there are other ways to cultivate interest.

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I was speaking in more literal terms, but that's a fair point, and I don't disagree with you, SK.

Just showcase the best wrestlers. Give me a blend of seasoned veterans and upcoming new stars. Write a few simply but good stories and let's go. Where the wrestler got their start means nothing. Just wrestle well, cut a good promo, make me laugh. 

And sorry to say, there are a lot of Bianca naysayers, beyond thinking she isn't ready or whatnot. A couple folks here were saying they'd be happy to see her push down the card in the event she lost to Shayna at Takeover because she isn't worth the time. I'll spare you the details of other stuff I've read because most of it wasn't here. She's being held to a standard higher than several women on the mainstream shows who are, IMO, worse than her in every way.  

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26 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

No one thinks Belair is a waste of space, and fans overwhelmingly don't care whether someone wrestled on the indies. People just want to invest--that can be in a fun gimmick, spectacular athleticism, or a fondly remembered run from years before. The latter isn't an example of some impossible or unfair bias; it's the same reason you're more concerned with your friend's day than a random person who lives on the other side of town, and more concerned for them than someone on the other side of the world. Familiarity matters, but there are other ways to cultivate interest.

Honestly, it isn't an impossible or unfair bias to invest in someone with a fondly remembered run from years before...but it is related to the bigger issue.

On paper, "I liked this wrestler from the independent scene, so I'm rooting for them on the big stage" is no different than, say, a diehard fan of a college sports team saying "you know what? I really loved this player who played for my college. I'm going to follow them to the pros and root for them to succeed there, too". 

However, having said that, it is responsible for the bigger issue: It's not just "people invest in someone who had a fondly remembered run from years before", but rather "This person never proved they were good before, so how can they possibly be any good?" It's related to the "WWE is the heel promotion" thing in a way- we've seen over the last few years that ROH's crop of "top prospects" has, by and large, been mediocre,  and we've seen a lot of very good WWE in-house prospects come through...but even though people know "the Performance Center is clearly very, very good as a wrestling school", too many people made their minds up in 2004 and said "well, anyone who went to ROH must be awesome!" and "anyone who's an in-house WWE prospect HAS to be some worthless hoss or Diva Searcher".

That's still a problem that's modern now: I'm sure someone with their minds stuck in 2004 would have said "Maroon 5 did the Super Bowl halftime show? Awesome!"...and look how that turned out. It's 2019. Start wrestling for a 2019 mindset.

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34 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

And sorry to say, there are a lot of Bianca naysayers, beyond thinking she isn't ready or whatnot. A couple folks here were saying they'd be happy to see her push down the card in the event she lost to Shayna at Takeover because she isn't worth the time. I'll spare you the details of other stuff I've read because most of it wasn't here. She's being held to a standard higher than several women on the mainstream shows who are, IMO, worse than her in every way.  

If I heard someone say any of this stuff about Bianca Belair, I'd be relieved.  That would be one fewer person in the world who had an opinion I'd have to consider as valid.  I once had a woman tell me her favorite Stevie Wonder song was "I Just Called to say I Love You," and I realized I didn't have to waste time listening to anything else she ever said.  

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15 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said:

... too many people made their minds up in 2004 and said "well, anyone who went to ROH must be awesome!" and "anyone who's an in-house WWE prospect HAS to be some worthless hoss or Diva Searcher".

I just don't agree with this premise at all. There's no fan uprising demanding a Punishment Martinez main roster run, and we just had another post (correctly) lamenting the waste of Rusev. Braun Strowman, the definition of a performance center hoss, has been consistently and massively over with basically every segment of the audience, while Itami just turned back into KENTA because fan nostalgia for his NOAH/ROH matches didn't count for anything. There are too many exceptions for indie/PC to be a useful dichotomy.

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