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ALL IN - 9/1/2018 - Post-Show Thread

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Big surprise, but Bix is complaining on Twitter that the cameras focused too much on the women’s asses in the four way match.

Does this guy just hatewatch wrestling at this point or what?

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I will never understand the hate-watching aspect of current wrestling, whether it's Bix or Scott Keith or Bryan Alvarez . So much better shit to do in this world than work tired Internet-hate schtick. 

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Alvarez does it for work at least and has stressed that's the only reason he watches WWE on a regular basis. And it's not as if he's negative all of the time.

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That’s fair, but he does tend to hate modern wrestling style. Just not a pleasant way to live, but Alvarez is fine.

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He loves NXT and most of NJPW. He has reservations about how dangerous some of the stuff is these days but I wouldn't put him into the total grump/anti-modern category by any means. He was gushing about All In. His only two issues were Kenny not selling his arm enough (I don't think he noticed the left-handed OWA as a live audience member) and the Brandi interference.

I am thirsty for All In talk so much so that I was on the WON board. Somebody there said a production member from FITE said during the Jim Ross stream* that FITE had ten times the amount of buys they were prepared for. Despite watering down their PPV revenue with all of the options and even World, this thing could be an even bigger success than we could have imagined. Fuck yeah.

*I am not going to watch the Jim Ross on FITE to verify that.

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Ian Riccaboni makes me long for Michael Cole commentary.

EDIT: By the way, the show is now on NJPWorld.

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42 minutes ago, sevendaughters said:

I really did not think Okada-Scurll was good and I like both. Properly plodding.

I fucking loved the finishing stretch, but it dragged in the middle pretty badly in my view.

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The show's now up on NJPWWorld.

 

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I'm generally happy with another promotion than WWE promoting a successful show. The NWA title match sounds like sth I will check out.

 

I might disqualify myself already from the discussion because I didn't see it, but: it kind of bums me out that an act like Joey Ryan's is part of sth big (there is no pun intended here) like that. I'm firmly in Camp Cornette regarding his penis related antics.

Also it is so weird that a company states after the main event "We cut this one short, guys." I know kayfabe is dead, it's still weird to me to get slapped in the face with that fact though. The Bucks seemingly did a nice job at covering up for it. 

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I'll never understand the big uproar around famous dick wrestler Joey Ryan's gimmick. Who cares? Wrestling is fake to begin with. If I can buy into Lucha Underground having a worker who ate the face of some wrestler and killed dudes on the reg, then I can definitely buy that Joey Ryan's dick can flip the entire body weight of one man (or woman).

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For me the problem is that Joey Ryan's shtick is Not Funny rather than Not Real and I think it would help if anyone who likes wrestling post-Farmer Burns could quit conflating the two things. Comedy and (or in) wrestling is not for everyone.

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You’re welcome to have the opinion that it’s not funny, but having the opinion that Joey Ryan’s act doesn’t have a place in wrestling at all is a pretty dumb one. Which is seemingly Cornette’s POV.

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2 hours ago, Casey said:

I'll never understand the big uproar around famous dick wrestler Joey Ryan's gimmick. Who cares? Wrestling is fake to begin with. If I can buy into Lucha Underground having a worker who ate the face of some wrestler and killed dudes on the reg [...] 

I guess my problem starts there. I find LU incredibly stupid and don't buy into the aforementioned storylines at all. I also cringe at shit like Paul Bearer getting burried in Oatmeal ("concrete"), so it's not a thing I hold against the Indies or anything. 

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I didn't see it, but isn't one of the woman's gimmicks based on her ass because of the PAWG thing to a degree? Either way, there's other things to bitch about. Like how they focused so much on Joey Ryan's dick when filming. I demand a congressional hearing.

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1 hour ago, Ryan said:

I didn't see it, but isn't one of the woman's gimmicks based on her ass because of the PAWG thing to a degree? 

That's Jordynne Grace who was in the Battle Royal

Her and Lufisto are Team PAWG (Their finisher is this - It is called ATM (the Urban Dictionary version not the bank version))

She also goes by Thick Mamma Pump 

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As great as she has been in the last couple years, it was strange that the narrative a couple days before it would be that she should have won the battle royal and face Lethal.   While Grace would have been better than the extremely predictable Flip Gordon (or Gordan in ALL IN  :lol:  ),  I just didn't this happening with a company.    Just because they do a Women of Honor match once every 2 weeks on TV doesn't mean things have changed that much.  

I would hope given the time mess in the main event that people with power will realize that you don't have to make a 15 minute match go 28 minutes because it feels cooler or because Flair went 60 every night.   But since New Japan doesn't have time allocated show, I doubt it

 

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5 hours ago, Casey said:

I'll never understand the big uproar around famous dick wrestler Joey Ryan's gimmick. Who cares? Wrestling is fake to begin with. If I can buy into Lucha Underground having a worker who ate the face of some wrestler and killed dudes on the reg, then I can definitely buy that Joey Ryan's dick can flip the entire body weight of one man (or woman).

Don't look at me. I'm the guy who thinks that having Suplex City on a show is problematic as it unbalances the suspension of disbelief for every other move on a card. The attitude of "Who cares? Wrestling is fake to begin with." is just a terrible attitude. Attention to detail matters. Consistency matters. Context matters. Just because you can half-ass something doesn't mean you won't have a better product if you don't. Lucha Underground creates an overall mood, for which which face-eating works. That's different than doing this on the same show that you have a legacy-driven NWA title match maybe? I'm not saying it is or it isn't, because obviously it works for the audience in question who aren't necessarily there to suspend their disbelief but instead for other reasons, but I'm sure you have the capacity to understand why people would not like it and might think it's detrimental to an overall atmosphere.

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It also didn't help that for most of the weekend the wrestling justice warriors and Jim Cornette found their latest target on Dan Barry for apparently doing his Team Tremendous gimmick with Bill Burr against Super Cop Dick Justice and someone else.   Apparently pretending to shoot a gun is just killing the business. 

Between the Joey Ryan penises, Dan Barry, and the Izzy match a week ago,  wrestling twitter has never been more triggered by useless shit 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Don't look at me. I'm the guy who thinks that having Suplex City on a show is problematic as it unbalances the suspension of disbelief for every other move on a card. The attitude of "Who cares? Wrestling is fake to begin with." is just a terrible attitude. Attention to detail matters. Consistency matters. Context matters. Just because you can half-ass something doesn't mean you won't have a better product if you don't. Lucha Underground creates an overall mood, for which which face-eating works. That's different than doing this on the same show that you have a legacy-driven NWA title match maybe? I'm not saying it is or it isn't, because obviously it works for the audience in question who don't aren't necessarily there to suspend their disbelief but instead for other reasons, but I'm sure you have the capacity to understand why people would not like it and might think it's detrimental to an overall atmosphere.

They did put the NWA title match on before the penis-druids, probably to avoid some of the real/fake gravitas whiplash. I think both segments got precisely the reactions that were intended. Not to "kids these days" things too much, but... yeah, I kinda will. The oldest fans there probably grew up on the Attitude Era's car crash TV, and the rest have a social media feed and a diet of viral video clips that swings between real global atrocities and cute animals every few minutes. The world does a shit job creating a consistent and realistic mood, but we get by. This is to say, I think fans now are capable of adjusting mood on a match to match basis, especially when it's billed as a giant variety show. So I'd suggest the disbelief was adequately suspended where it needed to be, that they reacted earnestly to Cody's win, etc. 

Of course "does it draw?" is a different conversation than "was it good?", though I'm not sure we'll ever agreeably disentangle those things in wrestling. Even the curmudgeon standby of "killing the business" could be taken either way: Either there's no money in it, or if there is, the money isn't going to something that's really wrestling. None of this is to say I really like Ryan's gimmick myself, or that anyone needs to, or that I'm gonna tie this post together coherently. So, in conclusion, Cornette booked a Christmas tree and a mummy, and people should stop taking his purist shtick seriously. 

 

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14 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

They did put the NWA title match on before the penis-druids, probably to avoid some of the real/fake gravitas whiplash. I think both segments got precisely the reactions that were intended. Not to "kids these days" things too much, but... yeah, I kinda will. The oldest fans there probably grew up on the Attitude Era's car crash TV, and the rest have a social media feed and a diet of viral video clips that swings between real global atrocities and cute animals every few minutes. The world does a shit job creating a consistent and realistic mood, but we get by. This is to say, I think fans now are capable of adjusting mood on a match to match basis, especially when it's billed as a giant variety show. So I'd suggest the disbelief was adequately suspended where it needed to be, that they reacted earnestly to Cody's win, etc. 

Of course "does it draw?" is a different conversation than "was it good?", though I'm not sure we'll ever agreeably disentangle those things in wrestling. Even the curmudgeon standby of "killing the business" could be taken either way: Either there's no money in it, or if there is, the money isn't going to something that's really wrestling. None of this is to say I really like Ryan's gimmick myself, or that anyone needs to, or that I'm gonna tie this post together coherently. So, in conclusion, Cornette booked a Christmas tree and a mummy, and people should stop taking his purist shtick seriously. 

 

Obviously we've failed the younger generations. I mostly blame @RIPPA.

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3 hours ago, ReiseReise said:

I guess my problem starts there. I find LU incredibly stupid and don't buy into the aforementioned storylines at all. I also cringe at shit like Paul Bearer getting burried in Oatmeal ("concrete"), so it's not a thing I hold against the Indies or anything. 

LU is in its own universe, its a TV series that features wrestling matches and 95 % of the talent that arent luchadores have different gimmicks or new names coming in. Place the angles make sense and are constant no matter how off the wall, which you barely get from WWE. 

I'm not a fan of Joey Ryans gimmick either mainly because he is so talented in the ring that he doesn't need it to get over. He was one of my favorites in PWG from 08 to 09 when I watched constantly. Its plays in to that sleaze role that he has, I get it in that sense but its one of those things that is funny the first time you see it if you like comedy stuff but It gets old pretty quick.

I think he should get credit for getting attention from media outlets ouside of the wrestling circles as an Independent talent that was never on WWE roster. He helped lead the way for a show like ALL IN. He's a guy that shouldve been signed by WWE before he even started that gimmick. If he had this wouldn't be a talking point 

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Considering he's nearing 40, good for him that he found something so absurd to keep his career going and prevent the abuse he took the first half of his career. He took a lot of dumb bumps in the old days for nothing.

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So long as people are emotionally engaged and there is context, I don't see the problem in having both serious, big stakes wrestling matches on the same card as giant inflatable penis druids and dick flips. It may not be your cup of tea but the audience reacted perfectly to both Cody's win and Joey's resurrection. That we are still having this tired debate is way lamer to me than anything Joey Ryan has done. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube but you can still suspend disbelief effectively if people care about your story. 10000 people cared about Famous Dick Wrestler Joey Ryan and his return from the dead. It paid off a year long storyline that was better told than 99% of the straight wrestling stories we see these days. 

Plus, the other side of the argument doesn't really hold water unless you're exclusively watching UWF shoot style because every promotion has silly wrestling tropes/gimmicks that force us to ignore how unrealistic they are. 

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People who tag Cornette and Rip Rogers in everything are cops

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