cwoy2j Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 The recipe for success doesn't seem so difficult. Treat today's stars like the stars of yesteryear. Every win or loss from a part-timer means something. Try to extend that to the whole roster. If you see the potential for $$$ in someone protect them. (i.e. Owens never jobs to Mr. Midcard Dolph Ziggler, Jericho does not kick out of Styles finish) See who the audience takes to. A main event push needs an organic element to it. You cannot create it in a test tube. Push who the audience is digging. Repeat. In retrospect, the Shield breakup explains all of the problems with current WWE creative. They shoehorned Rollins and Reigns into positions they were ill-suited for. Rollins wrestles a flashy, exciting athletic style. This screams babyface. He also is just average on the mic. Somehow he ends up as a main event heel cutting 20 minute promos each week. Reigns persona of quiet ass-kicker who wrestled for short stretches in tag team matches was getting over huge. Thus, it only made sense to force him to cut long promos and wrestle longer matches. The only Shield member creative did not have such a clear plan for was Ambrose. This is why he's still over. He's still allowed to be an extension of what got him over in the first place. The bolded portion is my biggest beef with WWE now. Not everyone is built to go out there and do these 20 minute in-ring gobfests. Why not play to the strengths of the guys you have instead of putting them out there to die and then ridiculing them for failing? It's like when they stuck The Hart Dynasty out there on commentary and then had the announcers make fun of them the entire time. How does that get anyone over? It'd be like if Heyman had The Sandman try to go hold for hold with Dean Malenko for 25 minutes and instruct Joey Styles to talk about how shitty of a wrestler Sandman was. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Vince: "Well, don't be a shitty wrestler." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 So we're through the looking glass to the point of griping without a solution about people who are griping without a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trocar Slush Weasel Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Make no mistake, creative has fucked it up completely. They've done Roman no favors. Roman has not exactly shined in the role either. How can Roman shine if they make him do shit he can't do? It's like putting Peyton Manning in a triple option offense, you are setting him up for failure. Why they haven't just made him redo Goldberg, I will never know. Goldberg never said anything and was over beyond belief. I wonder if Paul Heyman is sitting there saying, "Accentuate the positives, hide the negatives....you fucking morons". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 ...no, it's obviously the fans' fault for not doing what they're told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Vince: "Well, don't be a shitty wrestler." To Vince: "Well, don't sign said shitty wrestler in the first place." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fresh Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Vince doesn't get to pick the guy. The fans get to pick the guy. And if he keeps fighting this, it'll never work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 But nope, every time it's gone back to Roman and certain people shrugging their shoulders at how weird it is that he can't get over. I don't believe the solution is as simple as pushing the guy that appears to be over because it could be a very vocal minority. It doesn't necessarily mean everyone at home and women and children are all on the same page. With Bryan it was more obvious, with guys like Dean or Ziggler.. not as much. I've seen Ziggler come out to crickets. Creative sucks but I'm not sure "scrap everything and push Ziggler" is the answer. I'm starting to think they have something with Dean yes.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstout Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 never heard of him. I think Orton won by forfeit. A congenital heart defect has apparently felled Benoit moments before he could step into the ring... Note: Chris Benoit died on his way back to his home planet. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Vince doesn't get to pick the guy. The fans get to pick the guy. And if he keeps fighting this, it'll never work. Well, they picked Hogan and the fans ate it up. They picked The Rock and the fans rejected him but then ended up eating it up in the end. They picked Brock and that worked until he left. They picked Cena and that worked too. They picked Batista and that worked. It's not like they have a history of failing with whom they want to be the top guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Well Hogan was already the most popular act in wrestling when they "picked" him. Its like Peggy Hill saying in her opinion, kindling makes the best fire wood. If they actually maintained a steady push for Ziggler, he would be a true main eventer. That he is over at all is a credit to him. They need to pick some guys and keep pushing them steadily. That is no stop/start crap. No trips to the mid card, these are the main eventers and that is that..They should really keep pushing Reigns. He'll become credible and can hopefully get the next main event talent over. It took Triple H years and it eventually took and he got Cena and Batista over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeball Wizard Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Vince doesn't get to pick the guy. The fans get to pick the guy. And if he keeps fighting this, it'll never work. It seems as though once something works, it will get redone over and over thinking it will work again, ignoring the circumstances that lead to the original thing working. The evil authority figure etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 They didn't pick Cena. They picked Brock, Orton, and Batista. Cena was the after thought from that class. Cena got MASSIVELY over before Vince started even considering making him a top guy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Good point by Fowler. From what I recall Cena was initially tossed out there in pastel trunks without a finisher as "hey look at this young kid who can kinda sorta hold his own before losing to Kurt Angle". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 My memory of the period isn't great, but I remember Batista being a replacement for Orton. I don't think they really committed to Batista till he got a good reaction in during the Raw Benoit was GM for after Survivor Series. I never saw Batista being the chosen one or anything. I'm probably wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 The 2002 class was definitely all about Brock Lesnar. He got pushed hard and fast, but was up to the task. If he stuck around, WWE would've been infinitely better off in the late 2000s. Orton was their long-term prospect, as he was pushed very steadily up the card from 02 to 04, only being set back by injury. Cena got pushed pretty hard right out of the box, but they pulled the plug quickly when the crowd wasn't buying him beating Chris Jericho. The rap gimmick saved his life, and eventually he became the guy they had to push just because he was so over. Batista was the "project" who they protected well and struck when the iron was hot to maximize his value despite his limitations (you know the exact opposite of what they've done with Roman). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Isn't the rumor that Cena was close to being released and would have been released if the white rapper thing didn't take off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I've heard that story a bunch of times but I do find it difficult to believe that he wouldn't have been given a second chance. A guy with that look and physique? I guess they didn't really pick Cena but they did turn him into what they wanted him to be. They stripped him of everything that got him over and he was forced and forced until everyone said screw it and somewhere along the way he became a really great wrestler (probably 2007). Maybe they think they can force the fans into accepting Roman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I've heard that story a bunch of times but I do find it difficult to believe that he wouldn't have been given a second chance. A guy with that look and physique? I guess they didn't really pick Cena but they did turn him into what they wanted him to be. They stripped him of everything that got him over and he was forced and forced until everyone said screw it and somewhere along the way he became a really great wrestler (probably 2007). Maybe they think they can force the fans into accepting Roman. There are other guys with good looks and physiques who didn't work out though. The first person that comes to my mind is Mark Jindrak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I've heard that story a bunch of times but I do find it difficult to believe that he wouldn't have been given a second chance. A guy with that look and physique? I guess they didn't really pick Cena but they did turn him into what they wanted him to be. They stripped him of everything that got him over and he was forced and forced until everyone said screw it and somewhere along the way he became a really great wrestler (probably 2007). Maybe they think they can force the fans into accepting Roman. There are other guys with good looks and physiques who didn't work out though. The first person that comes to my mind is Mark Jindrak. i think because of the WCW racism WWE has was the only thing that stopped them from strapping a rocket too him, We all know he was considered for evolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph2112 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Well Hogan was already the most popular act in wrestling when they "picked" him. Its like Peggy Hill saying in her opinion, kindling makes the best fire wood. If they actually maintained a steady push for Ziggler, he would be a true main eventer. That he is over at all is a credit to him. They need to pick some guys and keep pushing them steadily. That is no stop/start crap. No trips to the mid card, these are the main eventers and that is that.. They should really keep pushing Reigns. He'll become credible and can hopefully get the next main event talent over. It took Triple H years and it eventually took and he got Cena and Batista over. The thing is its not that hard. When a guy is new, push him like he's the greatest thing ever. If he rockets up, you have something. If not, send him to the mid-card. Throwing guys into the "just another guy" mix and then seeing if he breaks out is completely counterproductive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Fresh Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 The fans were the one that clearly told WWE that Rock was their guy, after his face run bombed and he rehabbed his act. Same story as Cena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Yeah, Rock loves to tell the story of how they were sure that no matter how hard they pushed him he couldn't get over, that turning him heel was the last resort and if that hadn't worked they would have got rid of him. Which may well be true, but almost certainly is what they wanted him to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstout Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Good point by Fowler. From what I recall Cena was initially tossed out there in pastel trunks without a finisher as "hey look at this young kid who can kinda sorta hold his own before losing to Kurt Angle". When he first came up, his gimmick (get this) was that he had a bunch of different-colored pairs of trunks. I think that had to help him later when he became rapping Cena, because everyone was like "holy shit, this guy has a personality." He was like the Rock in that he made himself into a star by sheer force of will. Probably has something to do with the fact that both used their heel gimmicks to show enough personality to get fans to like them and demand they be faces. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StretchMediatedHypertrophy Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Cena used the Proto-Bomb (though it was unnamed), prior to using the FU. BOOYAH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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