Smackdown Spoilers for 2/11/16

[steve]

two time WO WOTY

Vince must've let his subscription lapse.

[Pete]

Guys, remember when Okada lost to Hiro Saito two weeks after he returned to NJPW?

[MORELOCK]

So he goes from hottest free agent in wrestling, former IWGP champion, and two time WO WOTY to just like every other mid carder in WWE 3 weeks into his run and people are supposed to be cool with that? They desperately need new stars. They desperately need babyfaces that are over that the fans give a shit about. AJ has the top selling piece of merchandise in the entire company. Don't you think now is the time they should be protecting him, and building his reputation up with the fans before he starts dropping falls?

 

It may not hurt him in the long run, but it's still a risk they shouldn't be taking if they actually wanted to make him seem like a big deal.

 

Comparing the t-shirt sales of a recently debuted Styles to the t-shirt sales of the rest of an incredibly stale roster isn't necessarily fair. It isn't that I agree with WWE booking choices - it's been beaten into the ground on this board just how broken their entire process is - it's just that, I don't know how mad anyone should really be getting about the booking of AJ Styles. He's a flippy indie dude and he's 38. Even if Creative suddenly gets their shit together, there are a number of people who would be better suited for a long-term push than him. My guess is that the biggest plans they have for him and the most over he will be allowed to get on WWE TV is what we're seeing right now.

 

Also, fuck Meltzer and his shitty awards.

[Victator]

 

 

Guys, Bray Wyatt BEAT Jericho at SummerSlam 2014. He lost to him at fucking Battleground 2014!

So, nobody even remembers where he lost.

 

Ha, as I was reading this thread, I kept thinking "I kinda wanna say Bray lost at some throwaway ppv, but I'm not sure and it really isn't even worth opening a new tab to find out." One could make the case though, that it is more damning that most people can't remember even the broadest details of the feud, but can remember that Bray did in fact lose to Jericho one time.

 

 

It wasn't an interesting feud. I did like Bray doing a nice locker room attack on Jericho. They tried to do a sit-down interview between the two and it didn't come off too well, either. It fell flat, especially since Bray was pulling out a child's choir dressed in sheep's masks just a few weeks earlier.

But I think the whole "Jericho Beat Bray" think is very much a case of selective memory. Like... the dude lost the first match in the feud. And then went on to beat him the rest of the way and left him laying in the middle of the ring after winning a pretty good steel cage match that ended the rivalry. Not sure what else they could do to show Bray really got over on Jericho. People don't want to remember things like that for whatever reason... but that's what happened.

 

Yet if Bray were John Cena only the follow up wins would be mentioned. Its whatever pushes the narrative forward.

[Victator]

And AJ was in TNA for a decade, the fuck can WWE do to him?

[Kyuubi]

 

So he goes from hottest free agent in wrestling, former IWGP champion, and two time WO WOTY to just like every other mid carder in WWE 3 weeks into his run and people are supposed to be cool with that? They desperately need new stars. They desperately need babyfaces that are over that the fans give a shit about. AJ has the top selling piece of merchandise in the entire company. Don't you think now is the time they should be protecting him, and building his reputation up with the fans before he starts dropping falls?

 

It may not hurt him in the long run, but it's still a risk they shouldn't be taking if they actually wanted to make him seem like a big deal.

 

Comparing the t-shirt sales of a recently debuted Styles to the t-shirt sales of the rest of an incredibly stale roster isn't necessarily fair. It isn't that I agree with WWE booking choices - it's been beaten into the ground on this board just how broken their entire process is - it's just that, I don't know how mad anyone should really be getting about the booking of AJ Styles. He's a flippy indie dude and he's 38. Even if Creative suddenly gets their shit together, there are a number of people who would be better suited for a long-term push than him. My guess is that the biggest plans they have for him and the most over he will be allowed to get on WWE TV is what we're seeing right now.

 

Also, fuck Meltzer and his shitty awards.

 

A flippy indy dude? So are we talking about Jack Evans and Amazing Red, or AJ Styles? I mean if Aj is a flippy indy guy than Chris Jericho definitely would have been if he came about in this generation. What does that even mean outside of guy who can do a backflip and has better than average wrestler agility in a profession guys like Kevin Nash who can't even bend their fucking knees are seen as legit? Dismissing him as a flippy indy guy kind of seems...WWE of you when it appears that 3 of your biggest faces not named John Cena in the past decade were flippy indy guys(Rey Mysterio, Jeff Hardy, and Daniel Bryan) and they got over by themselves. And I am sorry, who is better suited for a long term push than AJ Styles? They buried Adrian Neville to mediocrity. Kalisto pales in comparison to 90% of the Lucha Underground roster. Maybe a NXT guy if they survive the impending shovel that comes as soon as they move up from a better show to an absolute shit show. They buried any interest anyone could have with anyone else hence why people who aren't traditionally from WWE get tons of buzz and are usually over.

 

AJ was the biggest pop that you received in the Rumble after 2 years of people demanding refunds and canceling subscriptions. I did not expect him to be a world beater, but losing to Jericho in his third match kind of typical stupid booking which you aren't defending, but are justifying their stupidity.

[Jiji]

Plus, AJ isn't a flippy dude anymore. He does a few highflying moves per match but nothing like his TNA "glory" days.

[Matt D]

Holy shit they let AJ talk. I wonder if they'll dub over his voice?

My theory is that he's used these few weeks to learn sign language and/or mime.

They'll do the TAKA Evil dub.

[SirSmUgly]

 

 

* Chris Jericho vs. AJ Styles is the main event. The crowd was hot for both of them and the match was very good. Styles turned the Walls of Jericho into the Calf Crusher at one point. He also went for a Styles Clash but Jericho got the win clean with a Codebreaker. SmackDown ends with Jericho celebrating to a big pop

 

[MORELOCK]

All I meant by "flippy indie dude" is that he has a lot of mileage on him, and is also 38. They just had the last flippy indie dude they pushed retire due to injuries from that style. So the correct answer to who would be better suited for a long-term push in WWE is "anyone in the company younger than Styles that isn't a flippy indie dude."

Just because I'm not an outraged Styles mark doesn't mean I'm defending shitty booking.

[Kyuubi]

All I meant by "flippy indie dude" is that he has a lot of mileage on him, and is also 38. They just had the last flippy indie dude they pushed retire due to injuries from that style. So the correct answer to who would be better suited for a long-term push in WWE is "anyone in the company younger than Styles that isn't a flippy indie dude."

Just because I'm not an outraged Styles mark doesn't mean I'm defending shitty booking.

Oh, okay. Good point. I'd also say that they bury guys younger than Styles and many of their new top up and comers are around AJ's age. They have not built a young guy since John Cena and they don't seem to have the patience anymore.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

Beating someone twice and losing to them once is 66.6/33.3 booking.

Did Professor Scott Steiner tell you that?

[Goodear]

I may not think that Styles would be best suited to a monster push where he may be the next face of the company, but I still think this is a poor move at this point in time.  Why not give Styles the opportunity to see if he can capture the imagination of the crowd before making this move?  I think having Jericho pull something for a victory would be a better alternative rather than demonstrating a similar skill level between the two guys.  It would also move forward the Jericho narrative of being past his prime and having lost a step to set up the heel turn.  Rather than that, they put Jericho over clean which demonstrates a level of parity that does nothing for either guy.  Jericho is better off being the lesser of the two paradoxically and Styles doesn't need to be on even standing with the guy in this story.

[Charlie M.]

Finished watching the show and it was a heck of a match. Jericho hurt AJ with the codebreaker earlier in the night, AJ sold it all night and when Jericho finally hit in in the match, it was enough to put AJ away since he came in damaged.

 

AJ's brief backstage promo should earn him a chance to cut some more of those at least.

 

I feel like people's complaints about Jericho come from deep within the bubble because that's not how most crowds feel. And he worked as well as most guys on the roster in this match.

 

The other highlight of the show was Bubba Ray starting to morph into Bully Ray. Hope that's where this winds up.

[Victator]

All I meant by "flippy indie dude" is that he has a lot of mileage on him, and is also 38. They just had the last flippy indie dude they pushed retire due to injuries from that style. So the correct answer to who would be better suited for a long-term push in WWE is "anyone in the company younger than Styles that isn't a flippy indie dude."

Just because I'm not an outraged Styles mark doesn't mean I'm defending shitty booking.

I think that is a good reason to push him while they can. How much time did they waste not going full throttle on Bryan?

[MORELOCK]

Another way of looking at it (which I'm sure will set people off, but it's valid): How much time did they waste investing everything in Bryan for his body to fall apart before they could really capitalize? That's why Styles isn't going to get the push that people here are calling for - if they push anyone with that kind of force, it has to be someone the company believes they can build into a long-term top star (which is why not even Ambrose is getting that push - just Reigns)

[Charlie M.]

When all is said and done, I think Styles should probably wind up on the heel side (perhaps with some sort of club behind him). The face side gets pretty cluttered when guys start coming back from injury.

[The Man Known as Dan]

May I just note it feels good to be arguing with Greg about pointless shit compared to having to put up with Stro's brand of douchebaggery. Cheers to you, Greg! We don't see eye to eye all the time, but your a good dude.

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

When all is said and done, I think Styles should probably wind up on the heel side (perhaps with some sort of club behind him). The face side gets pretty cluttered when guys start coming back from injury.

 

I agree with this; I think Styles is a heel in WWE first and foremost. If that goes well, then the crowd will turn him back anyway. They didn't really want the TNA babyface Styles at all, but they decided to pay half a million a year or more after seeing him in Bullet Club. That tells me something.

 

Regardless of what they call it, an 'outsider' stable could actually seem pretty fresh in WWE at this point. Even a team like the Dudleys, who were gone a long time, could fit into that. Samoa Joe and Aries would work too. Even a guy like Kurt Angle could work, if he would accept a non-wrestling role. People will groan about a big stable, but it would be a good way of moving on from The Authority storyline and making #theromanempire the establishment figures - you can then do double-turns later.

 

The way Styles talks in interviews, he's pretty clearly looking to do 3 years and then hang it up, maybe with one final run elsewhere if it all goes Vader. They're paying enough that he's unlikely to be on Superstars, but he's not going to be pushed as 'the guy' unless the crowd goes full-tilt Daniel Bryan on him, which is unlikely as Styles doesn't have that level of charisma.

 

I probably wouldn't have had Jericho go over him personally, but it seems like Jericho sold it as a big win and it was a main event. With the outsider guys, they're ultimately going to want to see how they carry 'doing business' - in the current WWE culture, coming in like Styles has is no small deal and whilst I can understand the logic of giving the guy the green-light push and trying to create a star........unless you're going to put the big belt on him within 3 months there isn't much to run with when you have 7 hours of TV a week. Ultimately, I'm a proponent for the split-brand and you could have given him that push for the Smackdown World Title in those circumstances, but that's not the case; there's one main-event title program, it's Wrestlemania season, Jericho needs a little protection with so many guys out, and best case scenario Styles beats Orton or wins some B-title clusterfuck at Wrestlemania anyway.

[The Natural]

 

And Daniel Bryan made Wyatt look like a world beater in that feud. THAT'S how you get someone over.

 

And also resulted in one of the all-time biggest pops anyone has ever had in wrestling history.

 

 

 

I'll never tire seeing this video.

[MORELOCK]

Regardless of what they call it, an 'outsider' stable could actually seem pretty fresh in WWE at this point. Even a team like the Dudleys, who were gone a long time, could fit into that. Samoa Joe and Aries would work too. Even a guy like Kurt Angle could work, if he would accept a non-wrestling role. People will groan about a big stable, but it would be a good way of moving on from The Authority storyline and making #theromanempire the establishment figures - you can then do double-turns later.

 

While it may be a way to move on - I really don't know that I'd call rehashing NWO instead of Austin-McMahon a "good" way of moving on. They really need to give the late 90's rehashes a rest for a bit.

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

Bullet Club shows that rehashing nWo is completely fine as long as you do it right, and don't do it all the time.

 

I don't really think of it as 90s rehashes so much as I think of it as good booking. It's become looked down upon because it's all Bischoff knew how to do, but that doesn't mean it's not a very useful trope.

 

I actually think the Aces & Eights was a pretty good angle.

[Vincey Greene]

Regarding Styles, a goofy conspiracy theory popped into my mind reading this thread.

Back tracking a little: couple years ago, fresh off TNA, they had zero interest, right? That's always been the word. He goes to NJPW, gets over strong, and that's presumably why they signed him. BUT! During that time, NJPW also got a US TV show, aired a US ppv, and is generally making moves towards the market. As the top gaijin, he presumably would have been the face of the American expansion were it to continue.

Long story short, are we sure they signed AJ Styles for AJ Styles?

[joseph2112]

It is beating a dead horse at this point, but you can't bring people in, 50-50 book them, and see if they are going to grab the "brass ring". The only people I could ever see that working for are the very tippy top guys like Cena, Austin types. Bring someone in, push them to the moon and see what happens, you have the rest of their careers to book them into oblivion.

 

And I know, they won't, why am I expecting them to and why I am I bitching about that because I know what is going to happen. That is all true.

 

But could they at least put some type of story behind the matches besides two guys have match and trade wins? At least then it would seem like it is building to something.

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

The thing is Austin was booked pretty much 50-50; he was at the losing end of a Savio Vega feud before his push began. 

 

There's no real reason to believe Styles would catch fire as a top babyface in WWE. 

 

Ultimately, if you push him too hard, too quick then you are basically implying that the competition may have better talent. Another reason why the greenlight push fantasy is just that.