DC MOVIE THREAD

[Niners Fan in CT]

3 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

But it's not just the animated films dude. It's everything up to at least The Dark Knight Returns. Which, really, isn't even ask that kid unfriendly. After that, there were occasionally comics that tipped more adult, notably The Killing Joke, buy the mainline Batman book stayed resolutely kid friendly.

The idea of Batman being written primarily for an older audience is new. Very new. The history of the character for the last 76 years is that of a "Boy's Own Adventure" children's story. And even with Nolan's trilogy and the relatively recent aging up of the books, Batman's primary target audience on a whole has included children, through those animated projects.

 

You specially said he's not a kids character and... That's just wrong.

Yeah but this is still PG-13. I'm not even sure why it wouldn't be appropriate for a kid to see this. Joker was killing people, the pencil trick all the stuff..  What in this movie is so violent that it will haunt children?  I have no clue why critics are saying that basically Snyder went too far. If that were the case the MPAA wouldn't have it at PG-13. I get that there is a Rated R version supposedly..  but nobody has seen it.

[Matt D]

There's also a lot of regret tied to The Killing Joke which was never supposed to be embraced as much as it was. The entire creation of Azrael as the X-Treme Batman was done by DC Editorial to show the reader base that no, they really don't want a Batman like that. There are a lot of points to plot in this history. There's a reason why Dark Knight Returns stumbles into the realm of ridiculous parody whenever it's touched upon now. It's a reaction to something that hasn't been edgy or mature to react against in decades. 

[Brian Fowler]

I have no idea what's in the movie, and I didn't say kids can't see it. I'm responding to what you said.

And that's not even getting around to the fact that this is also a Superman movie.

[odessasteps]

Well, the O'Neil/Adams era (following the batman 66 era) had its share of gritty but not necessarily grim. Jokers five way revenge, the start of the ra's al ghul stuff.

There was a very very creepy story set i think during the rutland VT costume parade with a killer in a death costume with scythe and hangmans noose that was pretty intense for 1972(ish).

 

 

[Niners Fan in CT]

They're making an animated adaptation of The Killing Joke. They must feel there's an audience for it.

[odessasteps]

1 minute ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

They're making an animated adaptation of The Killing Joke. They must feel there's an audience for it.

Which is interesting, since they appear to be possibly retconning away barbara being shot/paralyzed from her origin.

[Casey]

1 hour ago, Raziel403 said:

Honestly, the consequences of everything the heroes do in the MCU outside of the Netflix shows are all blown off, that's been my issue.  

Except for that movie that's about to come out that deals with exactly that....

[Brian Fowler]

The Killing Joke is am interesting thing. It's heralded as a classic, but the guy who wrote it basically calls it the worst thing he ever did for DC. People find tons of hidden meanings in it, but Moore says it's all surface and it's his one work that doesn't have a deeper meaning.

The art ie stunning though, can't take that away from it. 

[Cliff Hanger]

It's no "Mogo Doesn't Socialize", that's for sure.

[Niners Fan in CT]

9 minutes ago, Casey said:

Except for that movie that's about to come out that deals with exactly that....

 

True but isn't the plot of BvS similar as well? The consequences from all the shit that happened in Metropolis? Regardless, I'm very excited for Civil War and I did not think I would be. The trailers have gotten me hyped and I love Chris Evans right now, my favorite character at the moment.

[Casey]

Oh, yeah, there's definitely parallels. I'm just saying that the consequences of all these previous movies in the MCU was building and building until it comes to a head in one big, bloated movie. To say there's no justice, or whatever, in the MCU outside of the Netflix shows (lolwut) is just kind of crazy. You never saw anything come from all of the destruction because Marvel was creating a narrative, ever since Iron Man 1, and it's about to pay off. The same thing can be said about BvS and what happened in Man of Steel. Well, maybe, since none of us have seen it yet. They aren't really pushing that plot in advertisements besides one or two quick scenes in a trailer or two, mainly billing this as "Superman and Batman fight, featuring Wonder Woman". I'm sure it has elements of that premise, though.

I hate to keep bringing up Marvel in a DC thread, and vice versa. Why can't they both co-exist? Both have their pluses and negatives, but it's all entertaining in the end. Hell, I've been waiting for Thanos in the MCU for years, and it seems like DC is going to make me feel the same about one of their big bads, so...

[Eivion]

4 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

Hell, even Scott Snyder's current run uses Harper to lighten the tone.

That is more a general sidekick thing. Really just about every batfamily member lightens the tone a bit at some point aside from Bruce.

3 hours ago, John Austin said:

sorry to hijak the conversation but someone earlier said they'd put Mask of the Phantasm up there with the best of the live action films. I'd also add Under the Red Hood for quality that stands with the best of the live action films.

I could not agree any more.

3 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

Phantasm is the best theatrically released Batman film for sure.

Under The Red Hood and the Miller adaptations are both really good as well for animated. Haven't gotten around to Attack on Arkham, vs. Robin or Bad Blood yet.

Attack on Arkham is ok. Vs. Robin is decent. Bad Blood is generally good though not w/o its problems. All are a far cry from the stuff Timm & co. were doing beforehand.

 

So to those that have seen BvS would I able to take my 8 year old nephew to this or not? Was hoping to see it this weekend, but with him coming over I'm not so sure. I wouldn't mind waiting. Its not something I have admittedly high expectations of anyways.

[TheVileOne]

It's a divisive movie.  Not surprising it's getting such bad reviews.

It's over-stuffed.  Too many characters and too many subplots.  Superman is more like Doctor Manhattan than he is Superman.  

Wonder Woman is kind of cool, but she has no character development and no depth.  She didn't need to be in the movie at all.  The resolution to Batman and Superman conflict is also so stupid.  They don't earn it at all.

[Niners Fan in CT]

40 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

It's a divisive movie.  Not surprising it's getting such bad reviews.

It's over-stuffed.  Too many characters and too many subplots.  Superman is more like Doctor Manhattan than he is Superman.  

Wonder Woman is kind of cool, but she has no character development and no depth.  She didn't need to be in the movie at all.  The resolution to Batman and Superman conflict is also so stupid.  They don't earn it at all.

What about Batman

[J.T.]

12 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

The Killing Joke is am interesting thing. It's heralded as a classic, but the guy who wrote it basically calls it the worst thing he ever did for DC. People find tons of hidden meanings in it, but Moore says it's all surface and it's his one work that doesn't have a deeper meaning.

Alan Moore is full of shit.  I think the artist in him is hard wired to hate the things that fans of his work absolutely love.  I think he's secretly proud of creating what the world arguably believes to be the definitive Joker story, but the rest of us can't know that.

I really do think he chomps at the bit when people make arguments that Death In The Family, Slayride, Five-Way Revenge, or Mad Love are better Joker stories than The Killing Joke.

[TheVileOne]

7 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

What about Batman

He is one of the better parts of the movie, but he's also divisive.  If you can get over the fact of how ultra violent and brutal this Batman is.  He literally does not give two shits about using guns and killing people.

This isn't a Batman who would be horrified by the mere act of raising a gun on a thug like in in the Timm/Dini-verse.  

IMHO, Christian Bale was a better Batman.  

[The Natural]

Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice is 33% rotten on Rotten Tomatoes. I didn't expect the film to score as low as. Poor DCEU.

13 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

He is one of the better parts of the movie, but he's also divisive.  If you can get over the fact of how ultra violent and brutal this Batman is.  He literally does not give two shits about using guns and killing people.

This isn't a Batman who would be horrified by the mere act of raising a gun on a thug like in in the Timm/Dini-verse.  

IMHO, Christian Bale was a better Batman.  

Guns and killing people? Really?

[J.T.]

Most of the reviews damn the movie with faint praise rather than pan it which really is an unfair skewing of the Freshness rating.   It will be interesting to see how the reviews affect the release weekend BO receipts.

Hilarious to think that Deadpool may end up being the superhero movie with the highest Freshness rating this year unless Civil War or Apocalypse is a tour de force..

[(BP)]

If the story was that Bruce had begun to cross the line after 20 years  of seeing the worst of humanity, but was redeemed by Superman then I'd be okay with this reading of him. Maybe that's where this is supposed to go with subsequent movies. 

[The Natural]

I'm seeing this tomorrow with my Dad.

[The Natural]

8 minutes ago, J.T. said:

Most of the reviews damn the movie with faint praise rather than pan it which really is an unfair skewing of the Freshness rating.   It will be interesting to see how the reviews affect the release weekend BO receipts.

Hilarious to think that Deadpool may end up being the superhero movie with the highest Freshness rating this year unless Civil War or Apocalypse is a tour de force..

I forgot to make the same point. We'll see if the bad reviews and word of mouth will affect the box office. I'm thinking it likely will.

[WholeFnMachine]

1 minute ago, The Natural said:

I'm seeing this tomorrow with my Dad.

I'm really interested in reading your take as I feel your Batfandom is similar to me. The talk of Batman using guns and killing is extremely off-putting to me. I like my Batman grim, but not murderous, and I'm not a fan of them blowing off two of his major rules. I'm going to see it in theaters no matter what, but this is seriously going to effect my opinion on their portrayal of one of my favorite characters of all time. Also, a question that begs answering is, how is the Joker still alive?

[The Natural]

6 minutes ago, WholeFnMachine said:

I'm really interested in reading your take as I feel your Batfandom is similar to me. The talk of Batman using guns and killing is extremely off-putting to me. I like my Batman grim, but not murderous, and I'm not a fan of them blowing off two of his major rules. I'm going to see it in theaters no matter what, but this is seriously going to effect my opinion on their portrayal of one of my favorite characters of all time. Also, a question that begs answering is, how is the Joker still alive?

Thanks, man. I'm interested in getting your opinion for the same reasons. I've reached me likes limit for the day.

[The Natural]

[TheVileOne]

32 minutes ago, (BP) said:

If the story was that Bruce had begun to cross the line after 20 years  of seeing the worst of humanity, but was redeemed by Superman then I'd be okay with this reading of him. Maybe that's where this is supposed to go with subsequent movies. 

Even in The Dark Knight Returns when things were at their absolute worst, Batman couldn't even bring himself to cross that line.  

Also you were all wrong.  The film isn't about dealing with what happened in Metropolis at all.  All the government shit is about something totally different.