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OCT WRESTLING DISCUSSION THREAD


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I can't wait for the feud of the century to kick off when Tyler Breeze accidentally uses his phone as a phone and dials 1-800-FELLA. 

 

Tyler won't call, he will text his selfie to 1-800-FELLA

 

IWC = Full of themselves

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But he's been coasting.

 

 

If he's coasting, what the hell has John Cena been doing? When is the last time Cena had ANYTHING interesting to say?  I don't care if he's "earned" the spot that he has. So what. Time to move on and it's been time to move on for at least a couple years now. I know the popular thing is to defend Cena these days. It's gone from everyone hating him so much that we had to turn and do a 180 and everyone started loving him because of his ring work but he doesn't get a pass anymore...  not from me.  The reason the WWE Network is in the toilet is because nobody gives a fuck about watching John Cena. They don't care enough to spend the $9.99 to watch him overcome the odds.

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Kevin Nash was coasting through his WCW career, he would not have wrestled a match like Cena's Summerslam match with Lesnar. Cena delivers the script handed to him on the mic and wrestles like a champ. Enjoy Cena while he is here as you are looking at your next internet darling a decade or two after he retires.

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I had no doubt Bray's character would be over the WWE writers heads, and they would screw it up. To me Bray is a potential top babyface. That guy can get the audience behind him no problem. Harper turning and forming a new stable to come after Bray would be epic.

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How was Bray/Cena a tepid feud? What the hell were any of you people watching?

That feud was wonderful and terrific. Bray did so many awesome things -- epic promos, making Cena wear a sheep's mask, the children's choir, trying to kill Lawler, etc. He led a chorus of people singing The Whole World at WrestleMania and the night after Raw and a bunch of other times, too.

 

The matches were weird because they tried to do stuff that was completely different. The WM match was a completely different pace and experimental structure from anything else. They tried to differentiate the match from the rest of the show. If anything was wrong with that match, it's that it (like most things with Bray) went over everyone's heads, including every smark in the world. It was the same with the cage match. They ended a match with a demon child terrorizing John Cena. That is so friggin' great and weird. And that Last Man Standing match was one of the best matches of the year and was completely awesome. 

People are totally nuts if you think the Bray/Bryan feud didn't get a reaction. Bryan finally turning on Bray and leading the YES! chant on top of the cage was the best pop of the decade. You don't get that reaction without an antagonist who can give the babyface that type of reaction.

The Jericho feud just didn't have anything really crazy. Look at the reaction when The Wyatts GLLURRRRT went off in their first segment chant. It got a THIS IS AWESOME chant. People wanted to see insane stuff with Bray and one of the best promos and legendary wrestlers in WWE history. They didn't get it. My idea of what would have made that angle awesome at the start -- Bray takes out Jericho's throat and prevents him from talking. Deny the fans Jericho's catchphrases. That denial is what worked with the Bryan angle. The reaction they would have gotten when Jericho could finally talk would have been terrific. Oh well.

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The Wyatts breaking up makes me sad. But then I realize well its not like they were doing anything with them anyway. Bray should have won at Wrestlemania. That should have been a star making moment. Hell...they could have started dare I say a new streak.

I'm pretty sure Vince probably doesn't like Bray because he doesn't meet his criteria for a star. He's short, has a big gut. Harper on the other hand could totally be a break out star of they don't screw this up. Give him some furry boots and allude that he might be distantly related to Bruiser Brody. Big boots and clotheslines to be had for all.

Could anyone imagine say like five years ago that Jon Moxley vs. Brody Lee would be a potential Wrestlemania main event?

Dead on about the Wrestlemania loss. All because they had nothing to do for the golden boy they sacrificed a hot prospect. I'm getting so annoyed thinking about the psst years booking.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the original plan for Bray to win, but Vince changed the finish because he didn't want Taker and Cena both losing at Mania?

Which is hilarious because like 80% of what the crowd gave a damn about was Daniel Bryan.

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re: WWE Creative Team

besides being the biggest misnomer in the world, when was the last period of sustained success that they had?  There was momentum leading into WrestleMania this year, but remember that largely the fans forced them to change their script (which, if you believe the rumors, had Mania include Batista vs Orton and Bryan vs Sheamus or Kane).  When i stopped watching and getting regularly involved with WWE, 2005, there was the same problem.

How is it not obvious that there's a problem?

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There's nothing especially wrong with Cena, he's just the most glaring example of WWE's problems as a whole.  The unstoppable superhero was great back when there was only a few hours of TV a week and you never saw the dude except for PPVs and SNME.  But there's so much TV, they're just burning through matches and storylines so fast, and he's on top for every single show so much that people are sick of him.  If it wasn't Cena, it would be somebody else. 

 

If they insist on this much TV every week, they really need to change how they do things, because Super Cena going over strong 10 times per month is too much.

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And I like Bray.  But he's been coasting.  He should be building on what he's done to get to the next level, and he isn't.  Jericho literally came in just to work a program with him and it did nothing for him at all.  And I know the obvious response is "Jericho sucks" but if Bray was as great as you guys say, he should have been better than Jericho and with his talents made the matches and the feud better. But when given mediocre angles and matches, so far he just sinks to that level rather than making it better.

 

 

I have to politely disagree to some extent. I can accept the criticism that Bray Wyatt wasn't as interesting in this feud as he could have been, but I think that even if he was clearly stepping up his game, we get the same result. It is hard to overcome 1) Chris Jericho, who is reaching Randy Orton levels of "who gives a shit about whatever this dude is involved with" at this point even when he just comes back for a short while, 2) Vince McMahon, who apparently dominates the writing committees and is so uneven about what he wants that everything Wyatt has done post-Shield feud has felt stop-start and inconsistent.

 

We're not blaming Cesaro for losing heat after being jobbed to Sheamus and Jack Swagger, having his music changed, and being immediately dropped as a Heyman Guy, right? I mean, Cesaro is still putting in work, but no matter how good you are, some things are nearly impossible to overcome. 

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When did any writer screw up Bray? He did the same exact stuff he was doing in NXT, except with way better production values and a killer way to do his promos with the GLURRRRT.

I am firmly convinced I am watching an entirely character and show than everyone else. It's actually pretty obvious to me. UGHHHH wrestling fans are the worst.

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It's hard to come down on Cena. While everyone bitches and moans (myself included) about his place on the card, his storylines, etc. He routinely has awesome matches and has reliably kept the lights on for a decade.

 

The fault lies entirely with creative. They've created an infrastructure similar to 80s WWE with Hogan. No face is truly presented as Cenas equal. A heel may be for a short period until eventually succumbing to Cena.

 

It creates a hell of a lineup of midcarders.

 

Bray is a heel with two giants following him. Nobody should be getting the best of him. Every match is essentially a 3 on 1.   

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The Wyatts breaking up makes me sad. But then I realize well its not like they were doing anything with them anyway. Bray should have won at Wrestlemania. That should have been a star making moment. Hell...they could have started dare I say a new streak.

I'm pretty sure Vince probably doesn't like Bray because he doesn't meet his criteria for a star. He's short, has a big gut. Harper on the other hand could totally be a break out star of they don't screw this up. Give him some furry boots and allude that he might be distantly related to Bruiser Brody. Big boots and clotheslines to be had for all.

Could anyone imagine say like five years ago that Jon Moxley vs. Brody Lee would be a potential Wrestlemania main event?

Dead on about the Wrestlemania loss. All because they had nothing to do for the golden boy they sacrificed a hot prospect. I'm getting so annoyed thinking about the psst years booking.

 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the original plan for Bray to win, but Vince changed the finish because he didn't want Taker and Cena both losing at Mania?

 

Which is hilarious because like 80% of what the crowd gave a damn about was Daniel Bryan.

 

 

Which was the problem.  Creative wanted to turn Bryan heel to stop the Yes chants and when that did not work they were forced to quickly turn him back to a face.

 

It was just a completely botched angle from the beginning.  

 

Actually, up to Wrestlemania, everything regarding Bryan was botched.

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Ha! That reminds me, as I had forgotten about Daniel Bryan ever being in the Wyatt Family as well.

 

Personally, I don't think Bray is very good. However, when the Wyatt Family first started, I also didn't think Luke Harper was very good. I have done a complete 180 on him & think he's a star now. I soured on Bray, partially due to bad booking but also because he's just not a very good wrestler (kinda sloppy) and his promos are starting to all sound the same.

 

He could have been a bigger deal but stables never last in WWE & he'll be a babyface comedy character before too long, I'm sure.

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Remember when college kids at sports games were doing Yes chants and posting them to Youtube?

 

They had someone over and known with the general public.  The had a great thing going with the smaller wrestler overcoming the odds to win the championship and what did they do for months?  Crap on it and try to turn him heel instead of embracing it and running with it.  They literally fought with their fanbase with respect to Bryan on the leadup to WM.  

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That's why there's zero reason to get invested in WWE.  The whole company runs based on Vince's bizarre issues, biases, preferences and general all around pettiness.  And he's constantly changing his mind.  He killed a push and tried to turn a guy heel for who knows what reason.  He would turn down money if the voices in his head told him to.

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I had no doubt Bray's character would be over the WWE writers heads, and they would screw it up. To me Bray is a potential top babyface. That guy can get the audience behind him no problem. Harper turning and forming a new stable to come after Bray would be epic.

You must be seriously disturbed if you think the Bray character can be viewed as a baby face.

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When did any writer screw up Bray? He did the same exact stuff he was doing in NXT, except with way better production values and a killer way to do his promos with the GLURRRRT.

I am firmly convinced I am watching an entirely character and show than everyone else. It's actually pretty obvious to me. UGHHHH wrestling fans are the worst.

 

I think, and this is not an insult, you just watch in a way where you aren't uncritical, but that you are liberal in how you analyze what sense can be made of the storylines, promos, and booking decisions. I don't think that's wrong, but I do think that it is one of many valid ways of taking in the show and wrestling fans are never as bad (and alternately somehow even worse) than we make them out to be. 

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I had no doubt Bray's character would be over the WWE writers heads, and they would screw it up. To me Bray is a potential top babyface. That guy can get the audience behind him no problem. Harper turning and forming a new stable to come after Bray would be epic.

You must be seriously disturbed if you think the Bray character can be viewed as a baby face.

Pfft. Bray is EASY to turn babyface. The "world" he wants to eat, the society he wants to tear down? It's the Authority.

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As long as he keeps the same character and they just point him at the Authority, and after that feud you could point him at a babyface and have him go back to being a heel.

 

Although a morbid part of me wants to see "Smilin' Bray Wyatt just wants to have fun with the WWE Universe!"

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Remember when college kids at sports games were doing Yes chants and posting them to Youtube?

 

They had someone over and known with the general public.

 

As Bryan and Dave pointed out on WOL this week, there is and has been a great debate within WWE over whether or not Daniel Bryan is over or just his chant.

 

Dave thinks that WWE will interpret Brie's YES chant on Monday as the chant being over, not DB.

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