The Marvel Studios thread (2008-)

[pipGofern]

There are no small parts, just small actors. Isn't that the saying? I actually thought Pace gave a pretty good performance - although other than the late lamented Pushing Daisies I don't recall seeing him in anything else so I'm not exactly up on his entire body of work - but I definitely thought he was better than say the dude who played Malkeith in Thor 2.

 

He didn't pull off a Loki level performance but the role really wasn't as big or nuanced as Hiddleston's. Although I do greatly appreciate that for once somebody played a villain as a straight up evil psychopathic asshole rather than going for shades of grey. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

The only thing I disliked about Pace was when Thanos scolded him he looked like he was about to cry. I mean stand up for yourself man!

[Ace]

Pace is Thranduil in the Hobbit movies. He also was one of the lead heel congressmen in Lincoln.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Yeah, he was great as Fernando Wood. That movie was like character actor heaven though (fucking Michael Stuhlbarg was getting significant screen time for Christ's sake) so it's not he didn't have anyone to play off.

[Matt D]

I say this as possible the world's biggest fan of "Pushing Daisies" - there's nothing that NEEDS Lee Pace

 

The Fall does.

[APO]

There are no small parts, just small actors. Isn't that the saying? I actually thought Pace gave a pretty good performance - although other than the late lamented Pushing Daisies I don't recall seeing him in anything else so I'm not exactly up on his entire body of work - but I definitely thought he was better than say the dude who played Malkeith in Thor 2.

 

He didn't pull off a Loki level performance but the role really wasn't as big or nuanced as Hiddleston's. Although I do greatly appreciate that for once somebody played a villain as a straight up evil psychopathic asshole rather than going for shades of grey. 

What's funny is that Ronan is more like a "shades of grey" character in the comics than what the movie protrayed him as. Would've been nice if they could've used the Shi'ar or the Skrulls since they both have some real psychopathic assholes to spare, but licensing I guess.

[Victator]

I really dislike Gammora in the movie. Zoe Saldana was way too doe eyed and "Oh I am not evil" to be Gammora. You never buy her as the most dangerous woman in the galaxy. 

With Nebula, I just can never see Thanos tolerating her presence.* Once you know their history, you can't not know it. 

* Nebula first showed up in the mid 80's while Thanos was dead for 12 years. She claimed to be his granddaughter. When Thanos returned, his first act was finding and torturing her for trying to live off of his name. 

[Matt D]

That's probably not her backstory in the movie.

[Bustronaut]

(someone one will take this the wrong way)

 

I really don't understand why people keep harping on about how things are different from the comics in these movie adaptations.  They're adaptations, things change, there's no prior continuity baggage that comes with the movies.  If you can't accept that maybe just go back to the comics.

[Victator]

That's probably not her backstory in the movie.

Yes I know that

[Victator]

(someone one will take this the wrong way)

 

I really don't understand why people keep harping on about how things are different from the comics in these movie adaptations.  They're adaptations, things change, there's no prior continuity baggage that comes with the movies.  If you can't accept that maybe just go back to the comics.

I was not complaining. Though I would like to see one character/costume make it into a movie unaltered. But shit, the comics can't get the characters right anymore.

[TheVileOne]

Merchandise the hell out of this Marvel, not until you are buried under all sorts of cash to rule the entire universe.

 

http://youtu.be/wTU8XEFZJnU

[PuroresuFan]

Until then you could ask if this guy has another one:

 

[Ligerbusa]

The Nebula/Gamora sisterly rivalry came before Mortal Kombat, right? It reminds me of Kitana and Mileena. 

[Just Dave]

We went and saw Guardians again last night. I didn't catch Star Lord calling Rocket "Ranger Rick" the first time. Made me chuckle...

[TheVileOne]

D'Onofrio looking Kingpin-ish now.  

 

[Clayton Jones]

I finally got around to seeing GotG, caught up on the pages and pages of this thread I had been avoiding, and had a slow enough night at work to put some of my thoughts together. Overall I really, really liked it but didn't quite love it. I was hoping based on the early reactions for something that transcended the safe Marvel formula that's been slowly killing the "must-see" feeling I used to get for these movies. While it was certainly different than your typical Marvel offering, by the end it still didn't quite feel fully realized.

 

Some of that has to do with criticisms already covered here- Ronan is another dud of a big bad, Gamora was a bit of a disappointment, there is no real threat or sense of loss by the end of the movie (besides the loss the characters were already carrying with them when we were introduced). The comparisons to Star Wars, but the stark contrast of where the characters are left by the end of the first Star Wars VS GotG, is a defining reason why one is an all-time great and another is " debatably the best comic book movie since Avengers."

 

On the positive end of the spectrum, Groot was absolutely perfect. As a huge fan of the comics, to come out of a summer blockbuster with "I Am Groot" as the biggest catchphrase, with such an odd character done so right, is a very cool feeling. However much of how this translated was Vin Diesel, and however much was the animators, either way I can't praise the finished product enough. Rocket is similarly awesome but man was Groot just a delight.

I had my reservations about the soundtrack based on the trailers but in context it was awesome and gave the movie a real soul that helped set it apart from your typical comic book fare. Visually the movie was a lot of fun too. As always I would have enjoyed a little more practical and a little less CGI but I know that's a pipe dream these days.

For Ronan, my main complaint is that I just didn't buy him. His intro scene was by far his best scene in the movie, and showing the ritual of him being prepared before an Accusation was the only time he felt scary. His motives were never completely explained, his look was cheesy, his voice was lame, and for a very unemotional character in the books he certainly pouted a good portion in the movie. I've never cared about Ronan as a character one way or another so I didn't mind so much that he didn't come across well, but it would have helped the movie tremendously if he had more going for him.

Gamora had a variety of issues. My main problem was that we didn't get enough of her back story to make her introduction believable. She went from "Thanos' favorite daughter" to "hey complete strangers let me tell you in detail my plans to sell out my dad" in a span of literally about 10 minutes or so? I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, and have her double cross the good guys, only to set up a triple cross in the third act. They did a great job of maximizing Star-Lord's back story without devoting a ton of time to it, if they had done even half that with Gamora it would have helped the entire team dynamic. How did she come to hate Thanos so much? What makes her so dangerous? What are her motivations? I would have cared about Gamora much much more if they had spent more time covering these areas.

 

I thought the main theme of finding friendship through loss and pain was really sweet. Although much of the way it brought the team together was rushed, it still had a sense of sincerity in the writing and the performances that rang true. This ties into Gamora again, but I'd love to see this stuff expanded on in the sequel, whether it be Gamora's childhood, what Drax's life was like before his family was murdered, what Rocket's experimentation was like, etc.

On a whole most of my problems are the type of areas that are perfect to cover in a sequel, so I have high hopes for when that rolls around. I was also majorly bummed at the lack of the Collector and Thanos, but they were both awesome in limited roles so I can't wait for more of them. There were a ton of nerd references scattered throughout the movie that they could easily follow up on in the sequel so hopefully some of that stuff comes true as well. And most of all I'm rooting that sometime soon in the Marvel movie universe the good guys actually lose because... y'know that's important to keep your audience invested.

[TheVileOne]

As for why Gamora hates Thanos, he murdered her parents, destroyed her planet, and made her his "daughter."

[Brian Fowler]

And she does pretty clearly state that Ronan wanting an entire planet destroyed was the bridge too far for her.

[Victator]

We barely knew her when she turned. She went from dangerous assassin to cream puff in ten minutes. 
 

his look was cheesy

 

This is what leads to stuff like the shitty Hawkeye movie look. 

[TheVileOne]

James Gunn said he was pretty ruthless about cutting stuff out.  So a lot of subplot, character, and dialogue stuff was left on the cutting room floor.  And hats off to him because story and character issues aside, the pacing of the movie is very good and the movie is so charming and entertaining that you aren't worried about say Gamora's sudden turn, The Collector and Nova Prime essentially wasting the talents of Del Toro and Glenn Close, etc.  Just like how in Avengers, some really good Cap stuff was left on the cutting room floor that really would've rounded the movie out, especially in terms of Cap material (not just his deleted scenes, but the action beats with Thor that were pre-viz'ed but not filmed).

[pipGofern]

We barely knew her when she turned. She went from dangerous assassin to cream puff in ten minutes.

Yeah, I don't really mind their "softer" version of Gamora - the "cold blooded assassin" comic version would've come across way too much like Drax on the screen. They needed to differentiate her so they went more for a "damaged orphan" angle. I am fine with it - even though it was a tad jarring at times having read many of her comic appearances - but the way they fast forwarded through her arc was kinda disappointing. 90% of the movie was near perfect but if there's one thing I wish they could've done better, it's set up her face turn.

 

Actually, were I to have done it, I probably would've left Nebula out completely and given Gamora her role only to have her turn on Ronan during the climatic battle at the end. I guess when you cast Zoe Saldana, tho, you have to feature her in the lead right away.

[Brian Fowler]

Well, really, she starts as a heel, has a rather jarring early turn to tweener, but I'd argue she doesn't really become a face until after she sees what the stone does in the scene with The Collector.  Up until that point, her motivations seemed to be pretty equally "keep the stone away from Thanos/Ronan" and "Sell it for lots and lots of money."  To the point where she was more than willing to give it to a guy that quite clearly treats people as property.

 

But it's definitely true that first turn comes with all tell, and no show.

[Victator]

And a lot of it is Zoe Saldana being crummy.

[Clayton Jones]

James Gunn said he was pretty ruthless about cutting stuff out.  So a lot of subplot, character, and dialogue stuff was left on the cutting room floor.  And hats off to him because story and character issues aside, the pacing of the movie is very good and the movie is so charming and entertaining that you aren't worried about say Gamora's sudden turn, The Collector and Nova Prime essentially wasting the talents of Del Toro and Glenn Close, etc.  Just like how in Avengers, some really good Cap stuff was left on the cutting room floor that really would've rounded the movie out, especially in terms of Cap material (not just his deleted scenes, but the action beats with Thor that were pre-viz'ed but not filmed).

I assumed as much and the movie does have a great pace for a 2 hour runtime. Still it was so fun and easy to watch that I would've had no complaints at all with about another 15 minutes tacked on.

In their limited screen time I really liked Close and Del Toro. I didn't feel like Nova Prime needed anything more than what she had, I also thought John C Reilly played a very good minor character who accomplished everything he needed to with a handful of scenes. But Collector was built to feel like a big part of this movie, and was so much more interesting than Ronan, that I wish the plot had been more focused around whether or not the Guardians could trust the Collector with the Infinity Stone while they were on the run from Ronan.

Vic did you like or dislike Ronan's look in the movie? The inspiration from the comics is clearly there but the efforts to make him look more menacing (lack of color, added black facepaint, especially the black mouth) just made him look more like a villain from a Sci Fi channel show for me. I also have no idea why they didn't go with the all white eyes from the comics, that's such a big part of what gets across Ronan's detached, cold personality.