Raziel Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Full disclosure, I actually loved Winter Solider up until the "Dump the Database onto the Internet with no reprocussions" part. I can't get past how much of a shitty thing that was to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ok, there was LITERALLY a vast conspiracy that included multiple members of congress, likely up to half of SHIELD, and thousands if not millions of Hydra members across the world and you're upset they stopped it? Uploading SHIELD'S secrets (and we don't know what all it was, it may have just detailed Hydra's operations) only weakens SHIELDS operatives and any operations they might be running with other government agencies. Do you honestly think the guy who's run SHIELD for a couple of decades would out anyone who WASN'T evil?!? Yes, the idiots on the subcommittee brought up national security, but the average member of congress doesn't have a great grasp on most things, and just brings up talking points for soundbites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basara Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 The people that complain about the damage in MoS are aware that in both Avengers and Guardians entire cities are destroyed right? At least superman looked a little depressed about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I enjoyed the movie very much but Raziel has brought up some real criticisms that I can't argue with. My issue has always been the people who hold Superman to a higher standard than The Avengers. They are all heroes.. Why shouldn't The Avengers be held to that same standard? Superman and Batman are different characters. Spider-Man has a different onus "Great Power/Great Responsibility." Star Lord is different than Superman. Etc. Marvel and DC have always been tonally different and when DC is least successful is when it forgets that and tries to be Marvel or even out Marvel-Marvel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 The people that complain about the damage in MoS are complaining about Snyder wallowing in the damage in what should have been a fun summer super hero movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ok, there was LITERALLY a vast conspiracy that included multiple members of congress, likely up to half of SHIELD, and thousands if not millions of Hydra members across the world and you're upset they stopped it? Uploading SHIELD'S secrets (and we don't know what all it was, it may have just detailed Hydra's operations) only weakens SHIELDS operatives and any operations they might be running with other government agencies. Do you honestly think the guy who's run SHIELD for a couple of decades would out anyone who WASN'T evil?!? Yes, the idiots on the subcommittee brought up national security, but the average member of congress doesn't have a great grasp on most things, and just brings up talking points for soundbites. I'm not upset they stopped it. I'm upset they decided the best way was to go "transparancy is awesome" instead of hitting "delete". THey didn't have the time to parse the info, would've been safer. Weakened operations with other government agencies, thanks for supporting my argument there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basara Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 The people that complain about the damage in MoS are complaining about Snyder wallowing in the damage in what should have been a fun summer super hero movie I get that, but the tone wasn't really 'fun summer super hero movie' even if that's what Superman fans wanted. I can understand if people didn't like the film but it fitted with the tone of it. People throw it out there as an argument against the film but if anything its handled better than the destruction in both Avengers and Guardians. Just a note, im not turning this into DC/Marvel, i liked Avengers and Guardians more than MoS, it just seems a strange argument to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 The people that complain about the damage in MoS are aware that in both Avengers and Guardians entire cities are destroyed right? At least superman looked a little depressed about it. I was really disappointed with the scene of Ronan's ship crashing into the city. Just another example of how homogenous Hollywood blockbuster culture has become. We're going WAY out in left field with a talking raccoon and a living tree and people living in a dead alien's giant head, but dammit we gotta have something crashing into a city at the end. Specifically, it was eerily similar to the end of STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 The people that complain about the damage in MoS are aware that in both Avengers and Guardians entire cities are destroyed right? At least superman looked a little depressed about it. An entire city was not destroyed. Considering they kept New York City from getting nuked and repelled a planet-wide alein invasion, they earned the right to be triumphant about it. and in the newsreel, some people were questioning the Avengers in that movie. In Guardians of the Galaxy, Rocket and the Ravagers PROTECTED the civilians of that Xandar city while they evacuated. Then Rocket throws in, "OK the city has been evacuated." When the Necrocrafts started doing the kamikaze act, the Ravagers moved in and shot down the ships before they hit the city. I was really disappointed with the scene of Ronan's ship crashing into the city. Just another example of how homogenous Hollywood blockbuster culture has become. We're going WAY out in left field with a talking raccoon and a living tree and people living in a dead alien's giant head, but dammit we gotta have something crashing into a city at the end. Specifically, it was eerily similar to the end of STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS. According to Rocket, the city was evacuated before the ship crashed. Who are you to doubt Rocket Raccoon? Here is a better example. London getting erased off the map in GI JOE, and the JOES and pretty much no one else blinks an eye. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I wish there was a thread just devoted to this argument so we could ignore it if we wanted. Our comic book Hamsterdam. :? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 The people that complain about the damage in MoS are complaining about Snyder wallowing in the damage in what should have been a fun summer super hero movie I get that, but the tone wasn't really 'fun summer super hero movie' even if that's what Superman fans wanted. I can understand if people didn't like the film but it fitted with the tone of it. People throw it out there as an argument against the film but if anything its handled better than the destruction in both Avengers and Guardians. Just a note, im not turning this into DC/Marvel, i liked Avengers and Guardians more than MoS, it just seems a strange argument to me. It could have been the best film in the world, but that wouldn't necessarily make it the best Superman film. That's the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I enjoyed the movie very much but Raziel has brought up some real criticisms that I can't argue with. My issue has always been the people who hold Superman to a higher standard than The Avengers. They are all heroes.. Why shouldn't The Avengers be held to that same standard? Superman and Batman are different characters. Spider-Man has a different onus "Great Power/Great Responsibility." Star Lord is different than Superman. Etc. Marvel and DC have always been tonally different and when DC is least successful is when it forgets that and tries to be Marvel or even out Marvel-Marvel. I get that but it doesn't excuse The Avengers for being assholes and I'm FINE with them being assholes. My favorite comic of the last couple years has been Hickman's New Avengers and the Illuminati were all dicks.. What is odd to me is that people will go out of their way to nitpick Superman but when it comes to The Avengers and their actions it's "lighten up, son. This is only a Summer movie!" For the record, I enjoyed The Avengers but so what if they saved New York City? Manhattan was destroyed. It's the same knock against Superman. He saved the entire fucking planet but oh no some skycrapers in Metropolis were wrecked! What an awful situation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Superman is Jesus. Iron Man is Robert Downey Jr? I don't know. I mean, I know you're smart enough and savvy enough to understand why some people might feel differently. I'm well past the point of trying to convince you one way or another. I just want to get you to a point where you're satisfied and understand. Maybe people are being hypocritical but there's a reason for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I think it starts with people growing up with a different Superman than I grew up with. I have no attachment to the Donner films. I also think there's something about the MCU that has whipped people into a frenzy... where it's almost a "They can do no wrong!" situation. Maybe it's because the MCU is unlike anything we've ever seen and people really want it to be awesome and will defend ANYTHING that isn't awesome.. No doubt there is more hit than miss. After all my complaints about The Avengers it is still a very enjoyable flick as was Winter Soldier and GotG. Some of the movies I didn't like and we've spent a ton of time on that.. Another thing that's annoying is people who feel DC is doing it wrong. I don't understand what you want DC to do. They aren't going to do another Batman origin. It makes perfect sense to me to jump straight into a movie with Batman and Superman because we already know both of them. I don't feel even Wonder Woman really NEEDS an origin film although we might get one anyway. I don't see this "rushed" feeling that everyone keeps talking about. The movie has been in development for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivpvideos Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I didn't mind the destruction because it wasn't like Superman wasn't trying to stop it. He was getting his ass kicked by a guy with powers just as strong as his. Pa Kent being like "just let the school bus full of kids drown" was much worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 What is it about London that keeps getting it destroyed in blockbusters? Pa Kent committing suicide will always be the dumbest thing about MoS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I don't believe he said "let the kids drown." He said "I don't know, maybe" in a conflicted voice because he was terrified of what would happen if everyone knew about Clark. He loved his son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiller Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I don't believe he said "let the kids drown." He said "I don't know, maybe" in a conflicted voice because he was terrified of what would happen if everyone knew about Clark. He loved his son. Yeah, I can understand him just letting the "I don't know, maybe" line slip out when talking to his son about an impossible situation. The dumbest thing in the movie is Clark letting him die in a tornado. I don't care how much Kevin Costner shakes his head "no", Superman saves his dad in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 What is odd to me is that people will go out of their way to nitpick Superman but when it comes to The Avengers and their actions it's "lighten up, son. This is only a Summer movie!" I blame Christ Nolan and his pretentiousness. You put all the baggage on Dark Knight about how 'this is like Tale of Two Cities, this has something to say about the World', and then you invite deep analysis (and Man of Steel (which I've not seen) was absolutely trading on the Nolan name, and made to look like a Nolan film that just happened to be directed by some other guy*). Avengers, it looks like a fun summer movie, it feels like a fun summer movie, it's held to the standards of a fun summer movie. * Like V for Vendetta was a Wachowskis movie that wasn't directed by the Wachowskis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Man of Steel was a Nolan tone with Snyder action sequences. I feel like if you hate it then you should probably be blaming Nolan more than Snyder. All Snyder did was give us the best Superman action scenes ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 You are goddamn right I hold Superman to a higher standard than The Avengers. Fuck, I hold Superman to a higher standard than Son Goku or Jesus Christ or even Buffy Anne Summers. That movie had zero understanding of who Superman is, and that's why I fucking hate it (despite liking the first half or so of it quite a bit.) Clark let Jonathan Kent die in that movie when he could have saved him. I am honest to God unable to understand how anyone can accept the movie after that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Yeah, I didn't want to say it this way necessarily for two reasons, but I do hold Superman to a higher standard than Jesus, and I believe more in the message of the former than the latter, because to me that message is more humanistic, having grown up much more with the Byrne/Stern superman than the Donner one. Now I kind of feel the same way about Cap too. Maybe even more so. I hate the Civil War take. I have no problem with the movie take and was relieved when I saw the first movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 So basically y'all can't be rational when it comes to Superman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Who can be rational when it comes to childhood heroes? I am a pacifist, but I will hunt down and fight whomever says a bad thing about Frederick McFeely Rogers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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