Matt D Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I like comics, not MMA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I don't like MMA or amateur wrestling and I know some people who like both who look down on wrestling as "fake." They really aren't the same audience at all. Most people I know who are hardcore into MMA wouldn't be caught dead watching RAW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 I'm a very casual fan of mma at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Because both have wrestling in the name despite one being pre-determined and the other being the real deal. I don't why people are coming unglued over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromatagon Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 So do arm wrestling and alligator wrestling 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 So do arm wrestling and alligator wrestling Amateur wrestling is still commonly referred to as wrestling whether it be Greco, freestyle, or folkstyle. Pro wrestling (the fake one) is referred to as wrestling. Pro wrestling (i.e. Real Pro Wrestling and its failed predecessors) is referred to as wrestling. Why do you need to some asterisk to denote that? You know what he means, *Not to be confused to be one with actual collegiate and Olympian level athletes **You know...the one with all the roided up guys with bad tans and all the girls with bad tit jobs that has been rapidly declining in popularity over the last 15 years despite the utterly sad and desperate attempts to revive it in North America. You know...that wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Comedian Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I hate MMA precisely because it's real and real fights aren't entertaining. And to add to Nature Boy's point, every friend I've had who wrestled in high school has an absolute knee-jerk disdain for pro wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 See the South park episode on the topic. . . . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 See the South park episode on the topic. . . . ..you mean the one that satirized and derided both as being creepy, bizarre homoerotic male rituals? Yes, seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I would imagine that the amateur and pro wrestling audience crossover is quite small/nonexistent. Meltzer is being misleading. At its core, pro wrestling has more in common with theater than it does amateur wrestling. Meltzer's statement is akin to saying that Friday Night Lights was the highest rated football game of the week. Pro wrestling is simulated wrestling with storylines thrown in to make it interesting. I enjoy watching it, am a hardcore fan and have watched it my whole life but at the end of the day, you cannot compare pro wrestling to a competitive sport. This is part of the reason that I wish WWE would let the wrestlers engage with the media as actors instead of doing this whole faux-kayfabe crap. You want to know why the stereotype of wrestling fans is that we all think it's real? Because the industry still tries to maintain even a thin layer of kayfabe. I realize that this isn't popular here but pro wrestling has to finally accept its place as a serialized TV show with simulated wrestling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I would imagine that the amateur and pro wrestling audience crossover is quite small/nonexistent. Meltzer is being misleading. At its core, pro wrestling has more in common with theater than it does amateur wrestling. Meltzer's statement is akin to saying that Friday Night Lights was the highest rated football game of the week. Pro wrestling is simulated wrestling with storylines thrown in to make it interesting. I enjoy watching it, am a hardcore fan and have watched it my whole life but at the end of the day, you cannot compare pro wrestling to a competitive sport. This is part of the reason that I wish WWE would let the wrestlers engage with the media as actors instead of doing this whole faux-kayfabe crap. You want to know why the stereotype of wrestling fans is that we all think it's real? Because the industry still tries to maintain even a thin layer of kayfabe. I realize that this isn't popular here but pro wrestling has to finally accept its place as a serialized TV show with simulated wrestling. I love pro wrestling and MMA, and have essentially zero interest in amateur wrestling. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of pro wrestling fans have minimal interest in amateur wrestling. They are only related because they have the same name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I've been a wrestling fan since just before Mania 1. I was a very casual MMA fan for a little while until I grew up a bit and realized it was meathead bullshit and that a sport where the object of it -- not a side effect but the actual object of the sport -- was to damage another human being was just morally wrong to me. Doubly so for boxing, which is just gross and takes away any slight "protections that the rules of MMA offer. I'm waiting for Dave to cover the All-Valley Karate Tournament. I hear Daniel LaRusso is quite the draw, a real whitemeat babyface. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I would imagine that the amateur and pro wrestling audience crossover is quite small/nonexistent. Meltzer is being misleading. How will you ever survive this affront to protect your dead non sport against someone who been covering since most people on this board were born? How will you protect this sanctity of a thing where a lame angle was aborted because some roidhead killed his kid with his own pro wrestling finishing hold? How? Holy jesus, you are the saddest people ever. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I would imagine that the amateur and pro wrestling audience crossover is quite small/nonexistent. Meltzer is being misleading. How will you ever survive this affront to protect your dead non sport against someone who been covering since most people on this board were born? How will you protect this sanctity of a thing where a lame angle was aborted because some roidhead killed his kid with his own pro wrestling finishing hold? How? Holy jesus, you are the saddest people ever. Get over it. Meltzer is an average at best reporter who occupied a niche before others got it. Longevity doesn't mean quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I would imagine that the amateur and pro wrestling audience crossover is quite small/nonexistent. Meltzer is being misleading. How will you ever survive this affront to protect your dead non sport against someone who been covering since most people on this board were born? How will you protect this sanctity of a thing where a lame angle was aborted because some roidhead killed his kid with his own pro wrestling finishing hold? How? Holy jesus, you are the saddest people ever. Get over it. Meltzer is an average at best reporter who occupied a niche before others got it. Longevity doesn't mean quality. Yet, we have this thread (AT PAGE SEVENTY-SIX~!) and the responses to something that can be easily skipped over. You gotta protect the dumpster fire, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstout Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Meltzer's not being misleading. He used the word "wrestling," not "professional wrestling" or "amateur wrestling." Technically, he's correct. Kind of like if you said "the second-biggest basketball crowd" and didn't differentiate between the NBA and college basketball. And the argument that Meltzer's not THE guy who does what he does is past old. So what if he mangles the English language? I've made this point here billions of pages ago, probably, but I don't consider Meltzer a journalist the way I'd consider a beat writer at the LA Times a journalist. Apples and oranges. Meltzer works in a very specific field and doesn't have a lot of competition, so he makes the rules, and his rule is "me no write English good." But name anyone who is as sourced as Meltzer is - I imagine nearly everyone in the biz talks to him - and name anyone who can bring the historical perspective to what's going on that he can. He may not be able to write for shit, but he's absolutely spot-on every time he mentions why any company's screwing up and what they need to do about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 The NBA and College Basketball? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Meltzer's not being misleading. He used the word "wrestling," not "professional wrestling" or "amateur wrestling." Technically, he's correct. Kind of like if you said "the second-biggest basketball crowd" and didn't differentiate between the NBA and college basketball. And the argument that Meltzer's not THE guy who does what he does is past old. So what if he mangles the English language? I've made this point here billions of pages ago, probably, but I don't consider Meltzer a journalist the way I'd consider a beat writer at the LA Times a journalist. Apples and oranges. Meltzer works in a very specific field and doesn't have a lot of competition, so he makes the rules, and his rule is "me no write English good." But name anyone who is as sourced as Meltzer is - I imagine nearly everyone in the biz talks to him - and name anyone who can bring the historical perspective to what's going on that he can. He may not be able to write for shit, but he's absolutely spot-on every time he mentions why any company's screwing up and what they need to do about it. There is this weird notion I've noticed where people feel they have to protect this irrelevant, niche profession from something. I am not sure why this weird circle of pro wrestling fans feel this way, but it's bordering on downright creepy right now. If it's not MMA or boxing, it's amateur wrestling, which makes this fear even more irrational given that pro wrestling has deep, deep roots in amateur wrestling going way back. I don't hear anybody going crazy for Meltzer and whoever that other guy was on the WO HOF podcast for insinuating Dick Hutton, Verne Gagne, etc. were actual wrestlers before entering pro wrestling. There is absolutely no reason to be this guarded about something that has not been relevant to casual viewers since 2000/2001, and is only slightly meaningful three days out of the calendar year at most. There is no financial incentive to protect this dumpster fire. Let it go. Secondly, who the fuck reads an Observer from start to end? What kind of weird completist are you to do that? He writes about whatever interests him. If you don't like it, don't read it. Quality of writing is not the argument here. It's this fetish that Dave Meltzer, being the most well known pro wrestling journalist, is like this parental figure that constantly jilts people (or subscribers) by discussing bodybuilding, roller derby, MMA, boxing, etc. Get over it. He is a weird motherfucker. But guess what? So are you for watching a bunch of future CTE suicide cases, drug overdose deaths, and people are going to be forced to live off autographs between indie dates because they can't walk at 43. Meltzer is not going anywhere so you don't have to fear losing him to anything. He has been covering pro wrestling FOR-FUCKING-EVER. If he was going to leave you (the redheaded stepchild rasslin fan), he would have left a long time ago. God knows, wrestling has gotten so bad that it's provided him ample opportunities to do so. However, he loves pro wrestling DESPITE its awfulness so you never need to question this. God knows Meltzer has been wrong plenty of times on MMA (and Sempervive with boxing & MMA), but I don't feel the need to act like I have to protect combat sports from people in that regard. When he says something about pro wrestling being better in one aspect than MMA, kickboxing, etc., I don't give a shit personally because that's his own bubble. If he starts discussing Conor McGregor, Ronda, Paige VanZant, Jon Jones, it's probably because he's tired of watching the WWE fail to create their own stars in multiple hours of weekly monotonous programming. That doesn't mean he doesn't like wrestling. That just means he isn't going to sugarcoat everything to your preference. Guess what? He doesn't do that with MMA either when cards fall apart due to injuries or UFC fails to punish people adequately. But for a guy his age who probably should be doing other shit (and probably has enough money by now to do so), he sure makes a hell of an effort to stay on top of everything he possibly can. However, due to this weird bizarre wrestling fetish thing, the most minute thing people won't remember 2 weeks from now is somehow this egregious act that shall not be accepted. Come on, get the fuck over yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 So wrestling counts as a sport because it's fucking terrible and nobody should watch it, and Meltzer's the best wrestling reporter because he's fucking terrible and nobody should read him? That's what I'm getting from you here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 You got to work on your comprehension, Jingus. No, I am saying there is no need to protect pro wrestling (which has been caving in on itself for several years) from Dave Meltzer of all people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstout Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Meltzer's made a decent amount of money freelancing articles for various MMA websites over the years, plus it broadens his fanbase for the newsletter - I imagine there are some people who are fans of both pro wrestling and MMA who might not subscribe if the newsletter just covered one or the other. Amateur wrestling is more of a feeder system for MMA these days - who was the last guy with a serious amateur wrestling background who went into pro wrestling? Lesnar? But there is some relevance for looking at amateur wrestling in the context of MMA and pro wrestling. Plus that was the first mention of amateur wrestling I've seen from Meltzer in ages, so it's not something that he talks about every week. Same with old-school roller derby, which is incredibly related to pro wrestling. He generally only talks about it when someone dies, and never mentions the shoot roller derby being played today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spritenaut 32 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Amateur wrestling is more of a feeder system for MMA these days - who was the last guy with a serious amateur wrestling background who went into pro wrestling? Lesnar? Chas Betts/Chad Gable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Amateur wrestling is more of a feeder system for MMA these days - who was the last guy with a serious amateur wrestling background who went into pro wrestling? Lesnar? Chas Betts/Chad Gable? It also depends on what you mean by serious. If you mean having a decent to good amateur background, you got Ziggler (who came from the same HS that produced Gray Maynard and Andy Hrovat among others), Swagger, and Cody Rhodes on the main roster last I checked. If you mean won a NCAA D1 or D2 title, then I believe Lesnar would the last of that breed. The thing is he is the exception to the rule because he competed in a division where both pro wrestling and MMA would want him. MMA really isn't signing dudes like that anymore. Most of those dudes are built like Cole Konrad, not Brock Lesnar. The UFC might luck out and get a Cain Velasquez, who doesn't have a good looking pro wrestling physique but is a freak athlete for someone his size. However, even then, that's going on almost 10 years now. MMA gets the guys like Aaron Pico, who is at least 3 or 4 inches in height and 50-60 pounds away from WWE or at least Triple H's radar for something like NXT. With Vince and Trips in charge, the WWE will never sign people like that. It's going to be people like Betts who at least fit the minimum requirements where you can believably work those stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Z Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 The Serbian guy they signed this year has some serious amateur wrestling credentials. From his introduction on WWE.com: Radomir Petkovic (Belgrade, Serbia) — European Vice Champion at the 2010 European Wrestling Championships and was a two-time bronze medalist at 2009 Mediterranean Games in Greco-Roman and Freestyle. Speaks Russian and English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Betts was an Olympian. That's pretty damn serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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