jaedmc Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 IBUSHI vs. NAKAMURA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4DHIIUS2Ms vs. DEAN AMBROSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Within the period. Anyway, I'm voting with Jae on this. I said I would. I trust his judgment in things Ziggler. If he feels that, in his heart of hearts, Ziggler is better than Ibushi here, I am with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 ugggggggggggggh too much pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red is Dead Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Ibushi, all the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Ziggler deserves to get knocked out here after Jae stuck Punk and Brock together in the first round. Like that seeding makes any sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Like that seeding makes any sense! IT'S MAAAADNESSSSSSSSSSS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I feel like Dolph Ziggler is the WWE version of Jack Evans at this point. He is physically charismatic but not a great promo, isn't particularly interesting while on offense, and his best trait is being able to take any bump that you could think up with an action figure. I also feel like the criticism I levied against Dolph last year's tournament is still valid: He wrestles and works like he thinks he is too cool to be a pro wrestler (and is slightly embarrassed about it) despite his character being all about how much time and effort he puts in and how much better at his craft he is than anyone else. Also, it happened during the voting period, so it should totally count: Ibushi was responsible for Gonzalez publicly white knighting what he thought was a person and turned out to be a blow up doll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Do people think Dolph is better as a face or a heel. You'd think his bumping and athletic offense would be better for a face, but I'm not sure that's a case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Does Dolph even have a character motivation as a face? "Beat this" or whatever is oh so bland that he's getting into Dibiase Posse territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 As a face, he's only had a couple of great performances. He's had TONS more as a heel. Part of it is that his best attribute is the bumping, so you kind of WANT to see him get his ass beat, in a sad demented way. I think he's great, but he could be better. I don't have a problem with his offense. I think the criticism of his offense is way over blown. His biggest problem is his character. For one, it's just not going far enough. For two, his promos aren't very good. The only ones where he's passionate enough to make a connection are the ones where he's basically telling the audience "I play a character named Dolph Ziggler who is booked to lose and I want them to book me to win!" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Dolph Ziggler's two most memorable matches were against Alberto Del Rio when he won the World Heavyweight Championship on the post WrestleMania XXIX RAW and lost it to the same wrestler at Payback. Not watched a lot of Kota Ibushi, only match of his I really liked was against Shinsuke Nakamura posted by jaedmc. It was one of the best matches last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Damn Yeti Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Dat Nakamura match though. Voted Ibushi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubbymark Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I really soured on Ziggler this year. This was the year he went Zack Ryder and just stopped giving a shit about everything. Yes he still has some glimpses here and there but Ziggler is a defeated man. So his whininess is very genuine, instead of being a rebel. All the things HHH said about Bryan on RAW really apply to Ziggler. His offense is all over the place, his selling is all over the place, and he's just a clusterfuck right now. Hell, I might be so bold as to say he needs to go down to NXT and work Zayn, Neville and Dallas to find his motivation because what he's doing for better or worse isn't working. Ibushi is a spot monkey, yes. But what he does is so freaking crisp. Vote Ibushi. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Fixit Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Ibushi really doesn't have anything besides the Nakamura match. He'll win because of that and the fact that his youtube movez videos are fun to watch for two minutes, but Ziggler was better this year even if he was booked terribly. Besides the Del Rio matches he also has a couple of great Cesaro matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Ibushi really doesn't have anything besides the Nakamura match. He'll win because of that and the fact that his youtube movez videos are fun to watch for two minutes, but Ziggler was better this year even if he was booked terribly. Besides the Del Rio matches he also has a couple of great Cesaro matches. This seems more a recommendation simply for voting Del Rio and Cesaro, in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 As a face, he's only had a couple of great performances. He's had TONS more as a heel. Part of it is that his best attribute is the bumping, so you kind of WANT to see him get his ass beat, in a sad demented way. I think he's great, but he could be better. I don't have a problem with his offense. I think the criticism of his offense is way over blown. His biggest problem is his character. For one, it's just not going far enough. For two, his promos aren't very good. The only ones where he's passionate enough to make a connection are the ones where he's basically telling the audience "I play a character named Dolh Ziggler who is booked to lose and I want them to book me to win!" Do you think he should be in the Ricky Morton role in a face tag team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 This is a tough one. Dolph is awesome however I don't watch much Japanese wrestling but Kota is one of the few Japanese guys who I'm familer with. I like watching him wrestle I do. Dolph is Dolph he is awesome the mans a natural he just has it but I might have to vote Kota. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scraylo187 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I think my main criticism with Dolph is that I want him to turn it down when it doesn't matter. Stop concussing yourself on Smackdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Dolph's a great bumper, but I'll only vote for him after he figures out some type of credible offense and learns not to be awkward when cutting a fired-up promo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scraylo187 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Dolph's a great bumper, but I'll only vote for him after he figures out some type of credible offense and learns not to be awkward when cutting a fired-up promo. His face off with Batista was soooo much better than his yelly whine thing that the Internet got boners for. It almost crossed into the realm of being fucking great...I think the problem is that he doesn't understand how to cut a FLASHY BUTT SHAKING ZIGGLER promo yet. The character he portrays perfectly on the entrance ramp hasn't inhabited his delivery. The guy that plays Dolph Ziggler is able to say 'you're a dinosaur, and dinosaurs go extinct' pretty convincingly, but DOLPH ZIGGLER would have said 'you're a dinosaur, and there's no question what made the dinosaurs go extinct- scientists agree that they all got killed by a comet named Dolph Ziggler' or something and then he would have just done turnbuckle crunches for four minutes without breaking eye contact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJ Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 When I think of where Dolph is I look back to late 2010/ early 2011. During that time there wasn't a heck of alot going on in the WWE in terms of ring quality. Dolph was a top 5 full timer and I probably watched every single Dolph match. Today,it doesn't seem like Dolph has grown as a performer nor has creative given him much to work with. Cept the landscape has changed. There's been such an influx of talent annd increase in match quality that Dolph might not even make my top 10. I do think he's a much better promo than people give him credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I almost wanna abstain because neither one does anything for me. I mean, I like the Nakamura match a lot, but that's like 90% Nakamura (if not more) to my subjective tastes. I guess I'd give the nod to Dolph based on the cash-in and the double turn? Ehhh.... neither one's getting past Goldust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 sniff.... Get out of here! Can't you see we don't want you anymore? Why can't you go back where you came from? Now, leave us alone! sniff....Goodbye, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanWaco Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 This is tougher than it should be. I mean I voted for Dolph without much of thought but he has regressed terribly in the last few years and it's not all push. I will give it to the guy for killing himself in stupid gimmick matches v. Damien Sandow, but he really has not seemed inspired in quite some time. He used to be a guy where if I saw him paired off with another good worker I figured the match would at least be good, now I have to wonder. There are a lot of guys I would have voted for over him and I really don't think he deserves to get out of the first round. But then there is Ibushi. On the one hand the guy had possibly the best match in Japan v. Nakamura, a match that was almost certainly the best match of his career. But man alive did he ruin a lot of other matches his horrendous selling. I actually think he might be the worst wrestler in the world when it comes to blowing off "injuries" to go on offense (Naito is right there with him) and that is one of my biggest pet peeves in wrestling. If I could point to a handful of other Ibushi matches from the last twelve months that I thought were pretty good, I probably would have taken him over Dolph, but it's basically that admitted awesome Nak match plus a bunch of stuff I thought ranged from boring to terrible v. Dolph's Del Rio stuff, and decent matches against a bunch of others. So Dolph has to win for me, even though I don't really want him too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Z Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Two of my favorites, but I have seen very little Ibushi from this time period. I think I'm going to abstain this round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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