Elimination Chamber

[Burgundy LaRue]

Tatum realizes that he's not the best at his profession, but he knows his strengths and works them to maximum effect.  Tatum is actually self-aware and has found a way to be successful.  Batista?  Is just the the old guy at the club that doesn't realize he should be at home watching Beachfront Property Bargains.

[Spontaneous]

At this point I am deadset on watching Batista-Orton flop at Mania and I demand to see that bomb. I only wish to hear what vince and HHH are thinking the entire time.

 

Kind of unsure where Wyatt goes after Cena at Wrestlemania. If he wins, he has to get a title shot right? If he loses, he looks like junk because LOLCENAWINS.

 

If Brock wins the title tomorrow night, they might be kind of neat. But then this all leads to Batista winning at Wrestlemania and I already feel sick typing that.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

I thought the girl on the top left looked like Melissa Joan Hart...

Not even Clarissa can explain why WWE likes to send its fans home unhappy.

[Niners Fan in CT]

It's not a "this whole thing blows" heat, it's a "give us what we want" heat. WWE has teased us with all these young talented guys they have like Bryan/Shield/Wyatt's/Cesaro and plenty more that are being sparingly used, but they then seemingly expect people to be okay with the, for lack of a better term, "same old shit" like Batista/Orton/Cena in the main event.

 

It's because the live crowds say "Fuck Batista, he sucks.. give us Bryan! give us the new guys!" but the ratings supposedly say "Batista is a draw" etc... 

 

Personally, I find it hard to believe that every city, everywhere they go... keep in mind it's not just New York and Chicago anymore, this was a Minnesota crowd that took a huge dump on Batista...  I find it very difficult to believe that the viewers at home are SO MUCH DIFFERENT than the live audiences.

 

This is an issue that has not been discussed nearly enough. Every live crowd loves Bryan, Shield, Wyatts.. and Cena is still very over also.. but you're telling me the viewers at home want to see Batista? I don't buy it.

[Craig H]

Mmm good points. Actually, I take back what I said because I watched Tatum in The Vow and I actually liked it. I don't think I could say the same about Batista.

This is so weird. I really wanted Batista to return and when he did, what we wound up with was fucking Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite.

[piranesi]

 

If Brock wins the title tomorrow night, they might be kind of neat. But then this all leads to Batista winning at Wrestlemania and I already feel sick typing that.

 

The image of Batista as babyface champion at the beginning of the Post Mania RAW seems inconceivable to me.  It is impossible to imagine that actually happening at this point.

 

So what are the alternatives?  Turn him heel?  Affiliate him with HHH so he can get some of that heat?

 

I'm just trying to imagine the announcers putting him over as the new popular champion the next day and I can't even see how they try that.  Something's got to give.

 

They have to be hoping that having him mouth off at HHH tomorrow will be enough to make people like him...but it can't be, can it? Plus HHH needs to spend his time on his thing with whoever.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

I read on a shit site there's a chance of a fairly big audible on RAW tomorrow.

[Casey]

Batista's problems would be solved if he was a heel. Plain and simple. He should have been brought back as the Authority's new handpicked "Face of WWE" since Orton is a cry-baby, or whatever. Instead, he came back and was trying to be one of those "cool, badass" faces.

 

I, too, want the Orton/Batista main event, purely for the spectacle of 70,000+ people shitting on that match. I want it to be the main event, too. Maybe then this company will get it through their thick fucking heads that no one wants to see this shit anymore.

[piranesi]

I read on a shit site there's a chance of a fairly big audible on RAW tomorrow.

 

Goddammit Waiter...I got so excited for the crowd reaction at the Post PPV RAW after the Rumble and I was disappointed.

 

DON'T START THIS AGAIN!!!!!

 

 

 

 

Shit.  I'm totally excited for the crowd tomorrow...WHY AM I SO EASY!!!?!!?!?!?

[Casey]

Hogan is winning the belt isn't he? FUCK YEAH!

[ebbie]

Barrett had the big crowd at the corporate sports bar I viewed the PPV at eating out of his hands by the third promo. It was a sight to see, and I dug it.

good news for once,

RAF

Did you catch him calling Colorado a bunch of potheads on Main Event?

[Niners Fan in CT]

"Bryan doesn't sell merch" 

 

"Bryan doesn't put asses in the seats at house shows"

 

I don't buy these arguments either. His merchandise is fucking terrible. NOBODY would wear that shit. Ever. Unless they were looking for a divorce or never want a date again. His new gear is a little better so we'll see how that sells. The house shows..  I mean, outside of Cena who is really putting asses in the seats? I haven't been to a house show in a long time, they can be a lot of fun but I feel there are a lot of people out there who think well if it's not on TV it doesn't matter. They've done a poor job of making house shows come across as something worth your time.

 

Batista's return did solid numbers. Real solid. Since then the ratings dropped back to what they were. I would concede that people wanted Batista to come back but they saw him.. they saw what he was bringing to the table... and they lost interest. Plus, they blame him for Punk being gone and Bryan not being in the title picture.

 

I don't think WWE will change their plans but they should be having long conversations about doing so.

[LooseCannon]

I thought the girl on the top left looked like Melissa Joan Hart...

Not even Clarissa can explain why WWE likes to send its fans home unhappy.

I think TNA and WWE both see Bash at the Beach 1996 as the greatest fan reaction ever and want to provoke a response that tops that.

[piranesi]

Hogan is winning the belt isn't he? FUCK YEAH!

 

It would be kind of great if in their panic they make things a million times worse. 

 

WWE fixing the problem:

 

[bink_winkleman]

I will be at Mania, and I will stuff myself with all the po boys, beignets, charbroiled oysters, crawfish and gumbo in the fucking city in order to make sure I'm shitting at capacity for Orton/Batista.

[Spontaneous]

Even if Batista is heel, that means either its heel Batista vs heel Orton (blah) or heel Batista vs face Orton (AH!). Honestly, any other company and someone's head is on a stick outside corporate for completely either misreading their audience or blowing a big return. New Age Outlaws need to drop the belts ASAP, yikes.

[piranesi]

I will be at Mania, and I will stuff myself with all the po boys, beignets, charbroiled oysters, crawfish and gumbo in the fucking city in order to make sure I'm shitting at capacity for Orton/Batista.

 

You'll still be less gassed than Big Dave.

[pol]

 

It's not a "this whole thing blows" heat, it's a "give us what we want" heat. WWE has teased us with all these young talented guys they have like Bryan/Shield/Wyatt's/Cesaro and plenty more that are being sparingly used, but they then seemingly expect people to be okay with the, for lack of a better term, "same old shit" like Batista/Orton/Cena in the main event.

 

It's because the live crowds say "Fuck Batista, he sucks.. give us Bryan! give us the new guys!" but the ratings supposedly say "Batista is a draw" etc... 

 

Personally, I find it hard to believe that every city, everywhere they go... keep in mind it's not just New York and Chicago anymore, this was a Minnesota crowd that took a huge dump on Batista...  I find it very difficult to believe that the viewers at home are SO MUCH DIFFERENT than the live audiences.

 

This is an issue that has not been discussed nearly enough. Every live crowd loves Bryan, Shield, Wyatts.. and Cena is still very over also.. but you're telling me the viewers at home want to see Batista? I don't buy it.

 

 

I actually just read a bit in a random 1996 Observer that could explain this:

 

 

Even before looking at numbers, a few things are obvious. The adult audience is the most important in that time slot, and WCW has been nearly doubling the WWF audience when it comes to adults. We can try and make things more complicated than they are, but the basic gist is that WCW has the wrestlers the current audience grew up on, the names they're familiar with, and that combined with the two hour format, is the key to the success. As much as some readers want to see Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Misterio Jr. and others as the focal points and wouldn't miss it if Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage were put out to pasture, the casual audience knows the latter two names. WWF is able to dominate the house show business for a number of reasons. One is that they have the slight edge in one of the age groups (teenagers) that are more likely to attend a live event. They promote the shows better locally. They generally run in better arenas (the top arena in the market whereas WCW often runs in the secondary building). They run a deeper line-up of names when it comes to house shows (even though overall they can't match WCW's talent depth). And they have Shawn Michaels, who may not be a big drawing card with the over-25 television audience, but is the biggest drawing card when it comes to the age group of people who actually regularly attend live pro wrestling shows. In addition, the performer WCW builds all its television around, Hulk Hogan, doesn't work the house shows so that takes the edge of all their house shows as presenting all the stars on the roster, something WWF is able to do.

 

Breaking the total viewing audience down by age and sex (we don't have figures for 55 and older) for the period of July through September of 1996 (the third quarter) and then looking at the third quarter of 1995, where there was only a Raw show. We'll see what audience has stayed with Raw, what audience has switched shows, and what audience has been added and then see if we can learn anything from that.

 

  Nitro Raw Raw '95 Men 18-34 631,000 (Nitro edge 61-39%) 397,000 499,000 Men 35-54 745,000 (Nitro edge 68-32%) 354,000 488,000 Women 18-34 243,000 (Nitro edge 54-46%) 209,000 260,000 Women 35-54 357,000 (Nitro edge 66-34%) 184,000 248,000 Children 2-11 368,000 (Raw edge 52-48%) 384,000 460,000 Teenagers 12-17 336,000 (Raw edge 54-46%) 389,000 349,000

 

What we find is a substantial increase in total viewership across the board. Raw has taken its biggest viewership hits in inverse order of the age of the audience. In other words, the older the audience, the more likely they are to be new viewers, which has to be a surprise, and also it appears the new Monday night wrestling viewers are far more likely to be watching WCW instead of WWF. This is interesting because the majority of the syndication and cable viewing loss over the past season was the decrease in viewing of WWF. The older age of the audience coincides with WCW headlining with names like Hogan, Savage, Ric Flair, Sting and Lex Luger who all made their names during the mid and late 80s. What is interesting is that WCW holds a lead in women 18-34 despite the WWF featuring younger and better looking wrestlers on top, which shows that sex appeal of the wrestlers is vastly overrated as compared with perceived celebrityhood when it comes to getting women to watch wrestling. They'd rather see someone who they recognize and therefore think is a big star ahead of someone who is younger and better looking. This is even stronger when it comes to women past 35, as WWF lost by percentage as many women viewers in the 35-54 age group over the past year as it did men (roughly 27%)--and those are the two age groups where WCW is totally dominant. Even with the addition of Nitro going head-to-head, WWF has increased its audience of teenagers, which again can be largely attributed to Michaels' appeal and perhaps to Sunny, since those along with Undertaker are the three acts that get the biggest crowd reactions at the house show these days. The problem is when it comes to Michaels, WWF has to recognize the obvious. Michaels is the biggest drawing card the company can run with on the road since he has the most appeal with the age group that goes to live events. All those 35+ WCW fans have increased company attendance per live event, but you are still talking about one company averaging $40,000 and the other averaging $80,000 on the road and not all of that difference is that WWF charges generally higher ticket prices. However, Michaels appears to have a negative appeal to the generally older television audience, with both men and women, which is understandable with his cocky character portrayal and stripper routine as a babyface apparently overcoming his tremendous amount of ability. It is also noteworthy that those same characteristics are a positive since the house show attendance has increased with him as champion, and even with head-to-head competition, more teenagers are watching Raw now than in the pre-Nitro period when Diesel was champion despite no head-to-head competition in those days--the only age group where Raw has shown an increase.

 

While WWF has lost about 20% of its audience across the board either to disinterest or to WCW, the vast majority of the WCW audience is an older group that never watched Raw.

 

So what does all this mean? If WWF wants to win on Monday night, to do so it will have to sacrifice its biggest drawing card on the road. They have to decide whether it is more important to draw ratings on Monday, or to draw money on the road because the audience they need to win on Monday is an older audience, and that style will hurt them on the road when it comes to drawing. The WWF's emphasis on pop culture slang, current events and attempting to tie into fads in the announcing means nothing to the main group that is watching wrestling at that hour and giving WCW the big advantage. In a sense, they are similar to ECW and for that matter to New Japan as well, although not nearly as far down one path or as appealing down the other, in that by trying to stay modern and hip, they lose the vast majority of the audience that may very well be behind the times from a pop culture standpoint, but they are the ones who control the television ratings in that specific time period. With the baby boomer generation getting older, it appears pro wrestling has its own version of the Richard Nixon silent majority dominating the ratings on Monday nights. Trying to get "more extreme" or "more hardcore" ala ECW looks to be a path that will only pigeon-hole their appeal that much more, even if at the same time it'll create more fervent fans and maybe even draw more fans to the arena shows, which has pretty much been the story thus far this year for the WWF. Despite the fact it would appear to be recycling over-the-hill talent or recreating the past, the numbers show it may be more important for the WWF to get a Randy Savage, a Roddy Piper or a Ric Flair then if they actually could bring back the original Diesel or Razor Ramon if they are looking at winning on Monday as their priority. Both American and Japanese wrestling have shown time and time again that good television ratings and big arena business are two entirely different animals. Sometimes you get them both, but there is far less of a correlation than one would think on the surface. In the summer of 1995, when Raw ratings were through the roof, their house show business was in the toilet. In the summer of 1996, with Raw getting its ass handed to it every week, the WWF house show business was the best it had been in years. There are two directions they can go. The New Japan (and to a lesser extent All Japan) direction, which is killer big show business aimed at the serious audience and little or no concern for the ratings (which are limited to begin with in Japan because of the poor time slots), which is in a culture where pro wrestling has far more mainstream appeal and the networks have traditionally had a lot of impact on the business. Or the WCW direction, where the aim is for ratings on Monday night and if the house shows are good, that's a plus, but ratings on Monday are the priority. Unfortunately they are two different masters and you can't serve both equally at the same time.

 

This is similar in some ways with the dilemma New Japan faced ten years ago when the original UWF wrestlers led by Akira Maeda returned to New Japan after the group folded to do the interpromotional gimmick. The UWF style, which was many years ahead of its time, was a hot style to the teenagers and young adults--the ticket buying public--and the right big match (which never happened because they never could get all the political problems ironed out) was a huge ticket seller. However, the general public didn't understand the submissions and matwork so TV ratings went down to the point New Japan lost its prime time network time slot within two years. New Japan survived, and eventually flourished, despite having much poorer television time slots, by running angles catering to the age group that bought the tickets and is the No. 1 promotion in the world today despite a 1:45 a.m. time slot.

 

 

I'm not sure whether all this really applies to the current situation, but there are certain parallels.

[piranesi]

WWE Creative room tomorrow morning:

 

http://youtu.be/1M3S0p8uzzI

[SirSmUgly]

WWE is just terrible at knowing how to book guys that get over on primarily the in-ring product. Even Reigns, who is ultra-charismatic, is charismatic physically more than as a speaker. 

 

WWE wants "larger-than-life" performers because that aspect, since Vince Jr. took over, has been more important than anything else. We just got lucky that Austin, Rock, and Cena were/are all awesome at delivering in the ring on top of it.

 

Now they have about eight guys the crowd wants to see, and barring Bray Wyatt, all of them excel mostly in the ring rather than as a giant personality. WWE just sucks at booking guys as stars like those guys. They did it once out of necessity, and even then, Vince was trying to replace Bret Hart at every turn. 

[Greggulator]

Just got back home from watching it at a Corporate Sports Bar:

1) Big E/Swagger was really good. Dudes laid into each other. Zeb blaming Big E for global climate change was a high water mark. The We The People faction are easy to turn face, since Zeb is everyone's lovable insane family member.

 

2) You will never find anyone who hates The NAO more than yours truly. I hated them in the 90s. I hate them now. But they did some good craft old heel stooging in this tonight. The best case scenario is for The Usos to get their big win in the opening match of WrestleMania or along those lines. Jimmy and Jey rule. Their pre-match promo sounded pretty good from what I could hear of it. There's a nice little chase for those belts coming up.

 

3) I really want to like Titus and Darren. But they just don't have it. This match wasn't terrible but it was just there. Titus would work great in an announcer type role. The dude has great charisma and a fantastic look but just the general art of storytelling is something that he doesn't have. He'd be a great color commentary heel, though.

 

4) SHIELD VS. WYATTS. Someone on Twitter said the following about this match: If I wanted to show someone why I like wrestling, I would show them this feud and match. That's it, right there. This was the best match since The Rhodes Boys beat The Shield. This was just a fantastic match in all aspects of professional wrestling. When does a match ever START with a "This Is Awesome?" chant? I loves them squaring off like they did for the past few weeks with Reigns and Rollins both trying to cool down hothead Ambrose so they can start things the way they want to. Loved Ambrose snapping and the insane brawl starting things off. And then there was just too much going on in that match to even keep track of. EVERYONE looked great and brought their best. Great job by Michael Cole spelling out the poetry of the end of the match -- Roman Reigns, the stud of The Shield, had to fend off the numbers game that launched his alliance to greatness and, by virtue, his shot at superstardom. And he fought valiantly like a soldier. I loved Harper taking The Spear -- of course he'd sacrifice himself for his master, but at the same time, that's another Shield trademark -- leading to the end.

That's wrestling right there.

I saw someone in here have a critique about Rollins table bump. What I loved about it is that it WAS simple. It was a double chokeslam through a table. It was nothing compared to Foley's Hell In A Cell spot, or like 50,000 ECW things. Heck, it didn't even look as nasty as Batista putting ADR through a table a few weeks ago. But all of the guys in this match are so incredibly skilled and the match was so epic that a fairly simple bump convincingly looked like death. They made us believe -- that's the magic of suspending disbelief and the con.

This was an amazing match. If this is the last stand of The Shield, thank you for the 18-ish months. These guys are really responsible for reinventing the WWE in a lot of great ways. All three of those guys are absolute studs. And The Wyatt Family's Reign of Terror just kicked into the next gear.

5) AJ/Camron -- AJ's a miracle worker. She was in what's arguably the worst spot anyone has ever been in after a match. She was in a match against someone who is a total scrub immediately after one of the best matches of the decade that had the crowd absolutely electric. She still somehow managed to do something pretty compelling. I was at a bar so it was hard to hear if the crowd completely crapped on that match but good on her for trying to get something out of Cameron, who was awful. We really don't appreciate AJ enough.

 

6) Batista/ADR -- I loved ADR's dupe job. Great friggin' stuff. Batista's just awful. He was when he was in his prime. He had a good few weeks at the end of his run when he finally found a compelling character as the Hollywood Star guy. But man oh man he's just awful. I liked the idea of the match, though. ADR did all of the work and Batista just had to sell a bit before hitting a few things.

7) ELIMINATION CHAMBER -- This friggin' ruled. It dawned on me before this that I have never actually seen an Elimination Chamber match. This was so great and had so many awesome moments. Randy Orton was king sized in this. I loved him looking like a petulant brat in the holding pen. Him locking himself IN his chamber to avoid a beating is an amazing stall spot. Seamus kicking down the partition to get at him was such an awesome payoff.  The end of the match was so well done, too.

As far as the booking -- really? People are complaining about this? There is no way Daniel Bryan should win the title at the set-up PPV. He wins it at either WrestleMania or, at WM, he gets through one of the obstacles along his way of winning it in the spring/summer and culminates his chase. But being pissy-pants because he didn't win tonight is just really, really shortsighted.

This came in looking like a two match PPV. It was actually a three match affair, since Big E/Swagger was really good. But the two must-see matches somehow passed that.

[piranesi]

HHH has this under control, everyone.  He just needs to make some quick problem-solving decisions.

 

[Greggulator]

And, oh yes, the Wade Barret stuff was incredible. I loved him telling people they would end up homeless by ordering the WWE Network.

[Phantom Lord]

"Bryan doesn't sell merch" 

 

"Bryan doesn't put asses in the seats at house shows"

 

I don't buy these arguments either. His merchandise is fucking terrible. NOBODY would wear that shit. Ever. Unless they were looking for a divorce or never want a date again. His new gear is a little better so we'll see how that sells. The house shows..  I mean, outside of Cena who is really putting asses in the seats? I haven't been to a house show in a long time, they can be a lot of fun but I feel there are a lot of people out there who think well if it's not on TV it doesn't matter. They've done a poor job of making house shows come across as something worth your time.

 

I don't buy the whole "so and so" doesn't sell tickets argument anymore. When I went to the WWE House show at Barclays Center in September which had Bryan/Orton as the main event, the building was half full. In this day and age, tickets are gobbled up in bulk by broakers and people selling on Stub Hub. Technically the tickets are sold...but I guess they only count actuall attendence at the event. So if you have a half empty arena it looks bad.

 

When you have an entire building chanting in unison for one guy and booing another I would say that's a pretty good gauge of who's over and who's not. Usually they can chalk up people shitting on guys like Cena and now Batista to it being in a "smark" town. but Minneapolis is hardly Chicago or New York as mentioned above. If they don't call a HUGE audible tomorrow on RAW they are really going to be up shit creek.

 

As for the show tonight, it was good for the most part.

 

Swagger/Big E was way better than I figured it would be. I thought Swagger would win to at least push the story of Zeb possibly walking out with two champions.

 

I can't stand The New Age Outlaws. The Uso's should have been tag champions six months ago. I mean who ever expected Goldust and Cody Rhodes to have a hot streak like they did back then. At least make The Outlaws the new Brisco and Patterson for Triple H so you can at least explain why the nostoliga act keeps going.

 

Didn't really care about Titus/Young. Nice to see Titus win. He's still the Shad Gaspar of the team though.

 

Poor AJ must be so paranoid right now wondering if tonights the night they decide to end her reign just because of Punk.

 

Bad News Barrett was awesome tonight which was a plus. I really hope he does come out on that RAW next week to Cult Of Personality.

 

The Shield/Wyatts started slow but man did it ever pick up. I also love how Dean Ambrose somehow got beamed out of the match. If they made this match a Street Fight or Falls Count Anywhere it would have been perfect.

 

As for the chamber, I'm really surprised Christian not only wasn't the first person eliminated but he actually got a huge pop from the crowd when he got the first elimination. It was a hell of a Superfly splash, but you can just tell in mid air he was like "I'm too old for this".

 

Cesaro getting 30 spins was awesome. Wrestlemania he has to go for 100.

 

As for the ending. You knew Bryan was getting screwed over. Bryan vs. Kane at Wrestlemania. That can't possibly be the best they have cooked up.

[_MJ_]

Still waiting on the big reveal of Kane and Bryan in cahoots together 

 

Slow burn, guys.