ExcellenceofAirPollution Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 (edited) I like Punk and all but here are the facts: The dude breached his contract Not all the way through the thread, but wanted to respond to this: He didn't. He is an INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR contracted for a certain # of dates. He had fulfilled that # of dates, thus was free to walk without "breaching contract" Was it unprofessional? Yes. Is WWE the most professional, trustworthy, reputable company? No. Are WWE wrestlers independent contractors or employees? WWE tries to have it both ways. If Punk was really in breach of contract, how did he "get everything I wanted and more" and beat them (and 2K) in litigation when it came to past/future royalties and being free and clear of the company without any hangups? Because legally he didn't break his contract, and WWE was trying to punish him for leaving by withholding agreed upon royalties and imposing their bullshit "no compete" clause even after THEY fired him EDIT* I see that this has mostly been covered in the ensuing pages Edited November 28, 2014 by ExcellenceofAirPollution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJ Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 The reality is 10 months after he left the crowds are still chanting his name and desperate for his return. If he returned tomorrow for an appearance, even on a B-ppv, he would pop the Network numbers like crazy. So while you can justifiably call him a mark for being unhappy with his positions on the major cards this wasn't all just in his head. On the contract stuff, the more I think it about it the more it sounds like when Punk walked out there was an expectation by Vince that this was a short term thing and he would have to coddle Punk for a bit. Punk was told he was suspended. Vince told shareholders he was on sabbatical. This probably wasn't turned over to legal until much later when it became apparent Punk wasn't coming back anytime soon and he started bitching about money. When things got bad It sounded like WWE tried to retroactively put him in breach of contract despite the language they previously used and despite that he probably already made all of the dates on the contract. In the WWE bubble where they're used to calling all of the shots, their actions leading up to Punks firing make complete sense. However, in the legal world nobody gives a damn about wrestlemania, etc. It's about the language of the agreement and the actions of the parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExcellenceofAirPollution Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Some type of NDA was almost certainly included in the settlement. There was. Punk said he couldn't discuss the exact terms of the settlement, but that's it. He did say they tried to put in a clause where neither party could disparage the other in public, but citing the fact that WWE executives (Hunter and Steph) had gone on TV and disparaged him for quitting while Punk had said nothing publicly, they didn't have a leg to stand on there. The OBVIOUS reason why Punk didn't get to have sponsors on his gear and Lesnar did is because they were going with a "former MMA badass" thing for Lesnar and MMA guys have sponsors on their gear. Punk, as much as he'd like to think he is, isn't a MMA badass like Lesnar. Lettting Lesnar wear the sponsorships makes sense given his background, while it makes no sense if Punk does it. I believe it was also due to the fact that Lesnar had the pre-existing sponsorship and was still obligated to represent them. Definitely, and because they wanted Brock so badly they made a concession there that they would make for very few other people. I know when Warrior came back in 96 they gave him "commercial time" on TV to promote his comic book and One Warrior Nation stuff. Whatever deal they have with Austin now has them promoting his podcast on TV. Jericho has had Fozzy and other outside the WWE umbrella projects promoted. I can't think of any others off the top of my head. Essentially, WWE wants sponsorships and outside projects to run through them and to get a cut of the action. The lack of co-operation and control was one of the things that led to Rock being out of the fold for so long. I think in the future WWE might go down the UFC route to an extent. MMA sponsorships used to be the wild west, then when UFC decided they wanted more control and a cut of the action they restricted it to "UFC approved sponsors" and changed the language in contracts to where guys had to go through UFC, which pissed a lot of people off and hurt fighters financially. But like WWE, when they're the biggest/only game in town (not so much now with Bellator coming on) they had all the leverage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Everyone was quick to pick the bits and pieces to support their narratives. This is a wrestling board. It tends to happen. Very rarely do people really want to allow evidence to change their beliefs. I could cite enough examples to piss off everyone but it's just the reality of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Is having 8 million dollars terribly different from having 18 million dollars? Either way, you can live extremely comfortably for the rest of your life and not need to worry. It came off as a very privileged, silly remark. Especially in THIS economy. Even if you factor in the whole "it's a respect" thing. Unless Punk needs tens of millions to buy his own James Bond-style super-villain island and lair. In which case I take back that remark and apologize. This just comes off like sour grapes and jealousy to me. He isn't complaining about not having enough money, he is complaining about an unfair share of the profits between WWE and it's talent. Did you listen to it or just read a recap somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbie Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 So, Punk no called, no showed to work and got pissed they fired him? Am I missing something here? The same shit would happen to me at my job if I did it enough times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 This thread seems like it's a lot of people who didn't pay full attention while listening/just going off of what they read vs people who actually listened and paid attention. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 So, Punk no called, no showed to work and got pissed they fired him? Am I missing something here? The same shit would happen to me at my job if I did it enough times. And here is like a perfect example of what I just said. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 So, Punk no called, no showed to work and got pissed they fired him? Am I missing something here? The same shit would happen to me at my job if I did it enough times. Punk did show, and did tell them he was leaving. Vince even hugged him afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Am I missing something here? The same shit would happen to me at my job if I did it enough times. People say this sort of thing during sports lockouts all the time and it continues to be the dumbest talking point in a sea of dumb talking points. Your job is not Punk's job. One has nothing to do with the other. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 "HEY PAL, WHO DO I HAVE TO BLOW TO GET A GOD DAMN STEAK WRAP IN THIS SHITHOLE TOWN". Vince types in all caps because why not. Cranky Vince @CrankyVince · 14h 14 hours ago TELLING MY DAUGHTER THE ONLY THING ON HER THANKSGIVING MENU TONIGHT IS BEEFCAKE. NOW WINKING. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Yeah.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 He didn't fall the right way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJ Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I guess the one positive out of the interview is all of the Punk talk is now in its own thread. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear Wyatt Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Punk describing the various injuries he sustained over the past 2-3 years really makes me question why anybody would become a wrestler. He makes it sound like the most miserable and painful job that a person could have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 The "running out of contracted dates" happened once in WCW with Luger. And he did pretty much what Punk did, went home. That is, until they made a new deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 The "running out of contracted dates" happened once in WCW with Luger. And he did pretty much what Punk did, went home. That is, until they made a new deal. Well Luger only wrestled that one match against Sting where he dropped the title. After that he jumped to WWF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylonianfrost Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 The "running out of contracted dates" happened once in WCW with Luger. And he did pretty much what Punk did, went home. That is, until they made a new deal. Wasn't the "worked all his contracted matches" excuse also the impetus that led to Sting sitting in the rafters at every televised WCW event for roughly a year and a half? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
offspring515 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I do see why the "I was fired!" Stuff is rubbing people the wrong way. In any business if you go tell your boss you're done and then stop coming to work for months, even for reasons that are completely legit like his health concerns, you have essentially quit. I suppose from a legal perspective he was fired, but his attempts to sell it as "I didn't quit I was fired!" come off as a bit silly. I was dubious about the claims that the Big Guy was hurting him on purpose but that table spot is pretty damning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 So, Punk no called, no showed to work and got pissed they fired him? Am I missing something here? The same shit would happen to me at my job if I did it enough times. Punk did show, and did tell them he was leaving. Vince even hugged him afterwards. How did so many people manage to miss this part? I guess the one positive out of the interview is all of the Punk talk is now in its own thread. I think there needs to be one thread where people just in general go to bitch that people in other threads are talking about topics that don't interest them personally, cuz that shit needs to go die the same death as political discussions on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I do see why the "I was fired!" Stuff is rubbing people the wrong way. In any business if you go tell your boss you're done and then stop coming to work for months, even for reasons that are completely legit like his health concerns, you have essentially quit. I suppose from a legal perspective he was fired, but his attempts to sell it as "I didn't quit I was fired!" come off as a bit silly. I was dubious about the claims that the Big Guy was hurting him on purpose but that table spot is pretty damning. I'm willing to give the big lug the benefit of the doubt that press-slamming a full-grown man onto a table and missing your mark by a foot or two isn't necessarily a sign of malice, but if it wasn't intentional, it was definitely a moderately serious fuck-up, so I'm not sure snarky tweets are the right way for him to go, here. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I do see why the "I was fired!" Stuff is rubbing people the wrong way. In any business if you go tell your boss you're done and then stop coming to work for months, even for reasons that are completely legit like his health concerns, you have essentially quit. I suppose from a legal perspective he was fired, but his attempts to sell it as "I didn't quit I was fired!" come off as a bit silly. I felt like all that was just him trolling the people that troll him about "quiting." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 I'm of the opinion that a spot like that never ends well, even if it goes off 100% "as intended". You get dropped from that high, it's gonna hurt very badly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spritenaut 32 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Wasn't the "worked all his contracted matches" excuse also the impetus that led to Sting sitting in the rafters at every televised WCW event for roughly a year and a half? Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted November 28, 2014 Share Posted November 28, 2014 Punk describing the various injuries he sustained over the past 2-3 years really makes me question why anybody would become a wrestler. He makes it sound like the most miserable and painful job that a person could have. It seems pretty close ot it. Jim Cornette mocked it on a shoot because being a pro wrestler gets you this: - Injuries, especially long term injuries - No benefits - No job security - No retirement funds or anything like that - No gauranteed pay(unless you're one of the lucky ones on contracts) - Constant travel, and if your job is in WWE, constant international travel - Never being home and never getting to see family/friends. - Dealing with a ton of shady people - No gurantees of anything, even work - No guranteed chance of moving up - No experience that can be used in anything but promoting. Look at some of the current 40-50 year old wrestlers, especially the joshi girls. They spent their whole lives wrestling. If they want to quit, what kind of job can they really do? - Must be in shape and have to watch what you eat - There's really less than 200 full time wrestlers in the whole world I'd argue easy that this is one of the worst jobs in the first world. Atleast even if you get screwed in other jobs, you're likely to NOT get injured. You honestly have a better chance of making the NFL, NBA, MLB, PGA, various soccer leagues, PTA, PBA or any major sport than you do in wrestling. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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