Colt Cabana's Art of Wrestling Podcast

[jstout]

 

The OBVIOUS reason why Punk didn't get to have sponsors on his gear and Lesnar did is because they were going with a "former MMA badass" thing for Lesnar and MMA guys have sponsors on their gear. Punk, as much as he'd like to think he is, isn't a MMA badass like Lesnar. Lettting Lesnar wear the sponsorships makes sense given his background, while it makes no sense if Punk does it.

 

You mean to say Punk wanted to try something new in pro wrestling that's different from what other pro wrestlers do? Why is that a bad thing?

 

 

 

...yeah, that's definitely more obvious than "Lesnar had the leverage to demand it, Punk didn't."

 

Cristobal's definitely more right than I am. But the WWE probably said "fuck it, it fits his character anyway, why not." And I never said it was a bad thing, I was just saying the sponsors fit Lesnar's MMA guy character more than Punk's character. It's good work if you can get it. 

 

And let's say the WWE allows sponsors like that. Who sells it? WWE or the wrestlers? If WWE sells it, wouldn't that lead to resentment of the top guys getting sponsorships and no one else? If the wrestlers sell them, does the WWE really want "Larry's Auto Repair" on the back of someone's trunks?

[NintendoLogic]

Yeah....

 

 

Yet another reason for table spots, and everything else redolent of ECW, to be banned from wrestling.

[Patrick B.]

Ryback has since deleted those tweets.

[evilwaldo]

After a day I think the interview shows the areas where HHH is very weak for business in terms of dealing with high end talent and contracts.  He needs a lot of work there.  What would help is a counterbalance in terms of wrestler friendly voice to counter any problems.

 

I think that after this interview every wrestler on the roster is getting a second medical opinion for everything and reading the fine print on their contracts.

[Matt D]

Ryback has since deleted those tweets.

Da Big Guy|~~!

[EVA]

Yeah....

 

 

Yet another reason for table spots, and everything else redolent of ECW, to be banned from wrestling.

And, of course, this was like the ONE TIME in history they did a big bump spot by the stage where there wasn't a blatantly obvious crash pad underneath the table.

They really did hate his guts.

[JustJay]

The Washington Post has picked up this story http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/wp/2014/11/28/cm-punk-slams-wwes-health-and-wellness-policy-says-he-was-fired-on-his-wedding-day/

[george young]

Ryback has since deleted those tweets.

EAT

SLEEP

TWEET

DELETE

[Cristobal]

Fun fact: Prior to the Punk podcast, this thread was on page 8.

[JonnyLaw]

For everyone ignoring the whole "Punk fulfilled his number of contractually obligated dates and thus was no longer required to show up" talking point, why do you think the WWE World Heavyweight Champion hasn't been on TV in months? WWE is being judicious with his number of dates and are carefully planning around them. They chose not to be judicious with Punk and attempted to make plans for him after running through those dates, essentially calling his bluff. It backfired.

If the same thing happened with Brock, I feel like WWE would be getting all the blame, but Punk is a more divisive guy.

[Cristobal]

So, Zeidler alluded to it pages and pages ago, but Vince claiming Punk was "on sabbatical" in the shareholders' call while his official status was suspension seems like a blatant case of lying to shareholders. He could be subjecting himself and WWE to an FEC fine for that.

[Niners Fan in CT]

it was definitely a moderately serious fuck-up, so I'm not sure snarky tweets are the right way for him to go, here.

Like I said in a previous post.. we don't know the full story. Punk isn't the most likable person in the world. He very well may have talked some shit to Ryback and Ryback said "okay, motherfucker" and here we are.

Two things: If this happened in the 80s, people on this board would be celebrating Ryback for putting a whiny prick in his place. Also, Punk saying he would beat the shit out of keyboard warriors for saying something to his face but then claims Ryback legitimately hurt him ON PURPOSE and did nothing about it. Reason #4567 why Punk is unlikable. Wannabe tough guy.

[Cristobal]

it was definitely a moderately serious fuck-up, so I'm not sure snarky tweets are the right way for him to go, here.

Like I said in a previous post.. we don't know the full story. Punk isn't the most likable person in the world. He very well may have talked some shit to Ryback and Ryback said "okay, motherfucker" and here we are.

And Ryback (per Punk) said he didn't do it. Punk doesn't believe him, but he'd be on pretty shaky ground picking a fight over a fuck-up the other guy's claiming is accidental whether that's true or not.

Obvious caveat: We don't know Ryback's side of the story.

 

Two things: If this happened in the 80s, people on this board would be celebrating Ryback for putting a whiny prick in his place.

Some people on this board are celebrating that. The rest of us are just rolling our eyes at you, and waiting for you to go back to talking about how awful Punk's fans are.

[evilwaldo]

So, Zeidler alluded to it pages and pages ago, but Vince claiming Punk was "on sabbatical" in the shareholders' call while his official status was suspension seems like a blatant case of lying to shareholders. He could be subjecting himself and WWE to an FEC fine for that.

Nope.  Just a polite way of saying that the situation was very fluid and unresolved.

 

This probably happened more than a few times and saying the word sabbatical was a polite way of describing the situation at that time.

[Cristobal]

So, Zeidler alluded to it pages and pages ago, but Vince claiming Punk was "on sabbatical" in the shareholders' call while his official status was suspension seems like a blatant case of lying to shareholders. He could be subjecting himself and WWE to an FEC fine for that.

Nope.  Just a polite way of saying that the situation was very fluid and unresolved.

 

This probably happened more than a few times and saying the word sabbatical was a polite way of describing the situation at that time.

I think you're overlooking the circumstances. Whether he was trying to be polite or cut Punk a break isn't relevant. This was the CEO of a publicly-traded company answering a shareholder's question about the status of a talent under contract with false information. People have gone to jail for that. I don't think that's a likely outcome of this, (and really, if THAT was what ended up with Vince in prison, it'd be a Capone/tax evasion scenario,) but a fine is certainly a possibility, and it (plus declining stock prices and consistently overly-optimistic projections) could spark a shareholder revolt that could end with lawsuits.

[Hagan]

I believe everything Punk says about the pressure and the shitty medical care, but I'm really hoping WWE goes on the offensive. 

 

I mean, I like Punk...but the company is such a pussy now. I want them to Self-Destruction of Utlimate Warrior him. I want them to pop a rating with an exclusive sit-down with Vince and Hunter where they just bury the fuck out of him. 

 

I mean, what happened in Montreal in '97 was such a fucked-up thing from every level and the company embraced it and turned Vince into the biggest heel on Earth. 

 

WWE can rewrite history. They can easily turn Punk from a trail-blazing prophet to a whiny, neurotic fake fighter who didn't get enough wins against guy who were bigger stars than him. Them being silent and just letting the smark fans bitch and moan is played out. They should go out on Monday and just be the biggest fucking dicks about him.  For better or worse, this is the biggest story out there. They should run an angle where the ringside physician is actually a shitbag heel trying to kill the babyfaces. 

 

That's what pro wrestling is.  They should sleaze the shit out of this and try to make some money. 

[Craig H]

On the one hand, selfishly, I'm sad that Punk is probably done with wrestling. On the other hand, the guy wrestled at least twice in the concussion testing era of WWE after being pretty badly concussed. Not only that, he fucking flew overseas after being concussed. So you have that, the shit with Ryback, and the staph infection. Given all of that, I'm happy he's getting out with his sanity and health in tact.

 

Back to Ryback, why has everyone forgotten about how no one wanted to work with Ryback because he was stiff and dangerous as hell? That was a big talking point on here because he never had any opponents. Now it seems like people can't believe Ryback would stiff the shit out of Punk.

 

Punk's impression of Ryback saying "I'm just dumb" was hilarious, though.

 

Look, I'm sure Ryback is probably a good guy and didn't mean to take liberties with Punk, but that doesn't mean he wasn't dangerous as hell at that point and there was also no reason to even have Ryback in that program while Punk was champ, or the one that came later during Punk's feud with Paul Heyman, The only reason the latter one happened was because this company can't come up with any long term booking for the most part time wrestler ever in Brock Lesnar.

[evilwaldo]

 

 

So, Zeidler alluded to it pages and pages ago, but Vince claiming Punk was "on sabbatical" in the shareholders' call while his official status was suspension seems like a blatant case of lying to shareholders. He could be subjecting himself and WWE to an FEC fine for that.

Nope.  Just a polite way of saying that the situation was very fluid and unresolved.

 

This probably happened more than a few times and saying the word sabbatical was a polite way of describing the situation at that time.

 

I think you're overlooking the circumstances. Whether he was trying to be polite or cut Punk a break isn't relevant. This was the CEO of a publicly-traded company answering a shareholder's question about the status of a talent under contract with false information. People have gone to jail for that. I don't think that's a likely outcome of this, (and really, if THAT was what ended up with Vince in prison, it'd be a Capone/tax evasion scenario,) but a fine is certainly a possibility, and it (plus declining stock prices and consistently overly-optimistic projections) could spark a shareholder revolt that could end with lawsuits.

 

 

You are overreacting.  Management lies on every quarterly call.  

 

On the scale of lies this is pretty low since they were reacting based on information available at that time and what happened in the past with wrestlers in similar circumstances.

 

People get injured and sometimes blow off steam at Vince.  They take a couple of weeks off and come back.  I am sure this is not the first time it happened.

[Cristobal]

So, Zeidler alluded to it pages and pages ago, but Vince claiming Punk was "on sabbatical" in the shareholders' call while his official status was suspension seems like a blatant case of lying to shareholders. He could be subjecting himself and WWE to an FEC fine for that.

Nope.  Just a polite way of saying that the situation was very fluid and unresolved.

 

This probably happened more than a few times and saying the word sabbatical was a polite way of describing the situation at that time.

I think you're overlooking the circumstances. Whether he was trying to be polite or cut Punk a break isn't relevant. This was the CEO of a publicly-traded company answering a shareholder's question about the status of a talent under contract with false information. People have gone to jail for that. I don't think that's a likely outcome of this, (and really, if THAT was what ended up with Vince in prison, it'd be a Capone/tax evasion scenario,) but a fine is certainly a possibility, and it (plus declining stock prices and consistently overly-optimistic projections) could spark a shareholder revolt that could end with lawsuits.

 

You are overreacting.  Management lies on every quarterly call.

I have no doubt this is the case with WWE, because WWE is run by carnies. There's a difference between spin and flat-out lying, though, and if the SEC gets involved, they're likely to take a dim view of framing the latter as "working the marks".

[evilwaldo]

 

 

 

 

 

So, Zeidler alluded to it pages and pages ago, but Vince claiming Punk was "on sabbatical" in the shareholders' call while his official status was suspension seems like a blatant case of lying to shareholders. He could be subjecting himself and WWE to an FEC fine for that.

Nope.  Just a polite way of saying that the situation was very fluid and unresolved.

 

This probably happened more than a few times and saying the word sabbatical was a polite way of describing the situation at that time.

 

I think you're overlooking the circumstances. Whether he was trying to be polite or cut Punk a break isn't relevant. This was the CEO of a publicly-traded company answering a shareholder's question about the status of a talent under contract with false information. People have gone to jail for that. I don't think that's a likely outcome of this, (and really, if THAT was what ended up with Vince in prison, it'd be a Capone/tax evasion scenario,) but a fine is certainly a possibility, and it (plus declining stock prices and consistently overly-optimistic projections) could spark a shareholder revolt that could end with lawsuits.

 

 

You are overreacting.  Management lies on every quarterly call.

 

I have no doubt this is the case with WWE, because WWE is run by carnies. There's a difference between spin and flat-out lying, though, and if the SEC gets involved, they're likely to take a dim view of framing the latter as "working the marks".

 

 

They are not lying.  At the time Punk was on a sabbatical.  He was not working and told everyone he quit but Vince has been in this situation numerous times over his 40 years in the business.

 

A sabbatical is a nice way of saying, yes Punk we know how you spouted off but we are leaving the door open to your return.  

 

There is no lie there.  There is no misleading information based on what the WWE knew at the time and the past behavior of former wrestlers.

 

If anything from the WWE's perspective it could have been a case of Punk trying to get leverage for a new deal.  He fulfilled the requirements of the old contract and wanted a new one.  He mouths off, leaves the WWE, and now has negotiating leverage regarding a new contract.

 

There are numerous angles here from the side of the WWE.

[Cristobal]

They are not lying.  At the time Punk was on a sabbatical.  He was not working and told everyone he quit but Vince has been in this situation numerous times over his 40 years in the business.

WWE (meaning Vince) had suspended him.

A suspension is not the same thing as a sabbatical.

What about this are you not getting?

[_MJ_]

I don't think people have trouble wrapping their mind around Ryback being stiff and negligent in the ring.  I remember our dear departed friend, Gonzalez, making numerous posts about Ryback being green and reckless with opponents on here in the past.

 

Punk saying Ryback may have injured him intentionally is new though, and the point of interest.

[evilwaldo]

 

They are not lying.  At the time Punk was on a sabbatical.  He was not working and told everyone he quit but Vince has been in this situation numerous times over his 40 years in the business.

WWE (meaning Vince) had suspended him.

A suspension is not the same thing as a sabbatical.

What about this are you not getting?

 

 

Because I worked in the corporate world before and understand quarterly conference calls.

 

Don't take things literally.  Corporate speak is much different than message board speak.  Here we are all smarks and take things literally.  In the real world it is the exact opposite.

[Cristobal]

Don't take things literally. Corporate speak is much different than message board speak. Here we are all smarks and take things literally. In the real world it is the exact opposite.

Yes, the real world has consequences.

You seem utterly unaware that there's a difference between spin and falsification. WWE's already walked a fine line on that point with some overstated projections about their TV deal and Network revenues. This is more ammo for a possible malfeasance suit from shareholders.

[evilwaldo]

 

 

 

They are not lying.  At the time Punk was on a sabbatical.  He was not working and told everyone he quit but Vince has been in this situation numerous times over his 40 years in the business.

WWE (meaning Vince) had suspended him.

A suspension is not the same thing as a sabbatical.

What about this are you not getting?

 

 

Because I worked in the corporate world before and understand quarterly conference calls.

 

I work in the corporate world, too, and if you don't understand how getting caught lying in those calls is a Bad Thing, I hope I don't have your company anywhere in my portfolio.

 

 

You can't if you don't understand that there is no lie here.  

 

From Wikipedia

 

Sabbatical or a sabbatical (from Latin sabbaticus, from Greek σαββατικός sabbatikos, from Hebrew shabbat, i.e., Sabbath, literally a "ceasing") is a rest from work, or a break, often lasting from two months to a year.

 

Do you think that this is the first time Vince had someone spout off to him regarding the workload, schedule, and placement on the card?  The suspension was just the WWE corporate's way of protecting their ass.

 

For all the WWE knew at the time Punk could have been using this as a negotiating point for a new contract since his old one was fulfilled.  You miss this point.  

 

By suspending him they are taking a negotiating stance with respect to his current and future contract.

 

By saying sabbatical publically, they are taking a conciliatory tone while playing hardball privately behind the scenes.