Zakk_Sabbath Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said: I'm just saying, regardless of feud, it feels like Nigel should be giving some grudging respect to Bryan for being an asshole. People don't have years of Heenan hating Hogan to go on here. This is me thinking under the presumption that fans don't know everything about everybody, I know, but it still irks me. I mean, the other side of the coin is the presumption that everyone knows everything, which is what I would argue seems to be the standard procedure on AEW TV when it comes to basically anything ROH-related (both the current incarnation, and the classics). It's like A bubble within THE bubble. FWIW, I still think there's a non-zero chance of a final Nigel/Danielson bout at Wembley next year - my thinking is that without Punk and Sting, they're gonna need something both left field and big for the English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said: I'd be curious of any line that Nigel has delivered that sounded forced. Tell me you didn’t watch NXT UK without telling me you didn’t watch NXT UK. Because he was bad there. Everything he said sounded forced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For Great Justice Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I don’t think the heel commentator is a thing of the past, in general. I’d argue that the heel commentator is more relevant in the mainstream than ever before (Skip Bayless, and before a recent babyface turn Stephen A Smith). I think the Bayless vibe is what Corey Graves goes for, but it misses the mark for me. And like Heenan, Bayless has decades of skins on the wall as a legitimate journalist before doing his current shtick Maybe these current guys just aren’t that talented at it. Because I think a hot take heel Bayless act in wrestling would work. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 4 minutes ago, AxB said: Tell me you didn’t watch NXT UK without telling me you didn’t watch NXT UK. Because he was bad there. Everything he said sounded forced. I tried it for three episodes way back, and agree fully - he was oddly looser on 205 I thought (and is better today). I admit it's some kind of weird anti-bias on my part but I legit can't stay mad at Nigel for having a less-than-great instinct or two from time to time, when he's out here dropping Scott Norton and Fascination Street by The Cure and shit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 4 minutes ago, For Great Justice said: Maybe these current guys just aren’t that talented at it. Because I think a hot take heel Bayless act in wrestling would work. Huge agree - I think with a few tweaks, Dan Lambert could have been that guy early on. I could also totally see Stokely excelling at doing a Stephen A kind of thing Edit: this is going to be a very, very weird choice, but you know who would actually do really well at that kind of thing I bet?? Ruby Soho. That Outcasts stuff largely wasn't my cup of tea, but one good thing about it is that it showed how well she plays sarcastic Edited February 13 by Zakk_Sabbath 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Wilson Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 For me, the key to good heel commentary is I have to feel like they mean it. The reason why I always think of Ventura and WWF-era Heenan is though they were heels, they also had a explanation or reason to be. It didn't feel forced, they were convincing in their roles. Other heel commentators since just feel like they are filling a job requirement. They just automatically root for the heel to check off a box, they may not have a reason to do so, they just do. Graves is pretty good at not always rooting for the heel and he does sometimes give faces respect, which I think is important with any commentator. Nigel annoys me sometimes, other times he hits a groove and it feels natural. Its a tough role, I'd prefer just not having a heel commentator at all (just a color and play by play person like other sports is fine with me). 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
For Great Justice Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 In that WWE animated film Rumble from a few years ago, SAS himself played the heel color commentary role and was great. Given his ability to keep kayfabe while giving hot takes on stuff like who the Piston Cup GOAT is, that isn’t surprising. Lambert I could totally see in that role, for sure. Jericho has the chops and the credibility aspect we talked about with Heenan, but he seems to go with more of the David Crocket / Booker T “mark out for stuff” vibe as an announcer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 1 hour ago, AxB said: Tell me you didn’t watch NXT UK without telling me you didn’t watch NXT UK. Because he was bad there. Everything he said sounded forced. A forced sounding commentator in WWE!?! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 32 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said: For me, the key to good heel commentary is I have to feel like they mean it. The reason why I always think of Ventura and WWF-era Heenan is though they were heels, they also had a explanation or reason to be. It didn't feel forced, they were convincing in their roles. Other heel commentators since just feel like they are filling a job requirement. They just automatically root for the heel to check off a box, they may not have a reason to do so, they just do. Thanks! That's kind of what I was getting at. It feel more performative than genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikoBaltimore Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I thought Nigel was better in current ROH before he transitioned over to Collision. He wasn't leaning as hard into the heelish stuff and it felt smoother. But even as is I'm not ashamed to say that I like him on commentary. Even if there's things that don't work I'm here for the stuff that does. As for heels on commentary Matt Menard is right there and is wonderful. I know he's softened up since Garcia's a face now but Menard's great at being a heel on commentary yet has wiggle room for a face or unknown that catches his eye. I love that he commentates during Garcia's matches but I'm really hoping once he hangs it up that he does commentary full time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Matt Menard is alongside Nigel two of the best they have on the headsets. The Nigel, Caprice, Ricaboni team were indeed great. Nigel also helped keep both on track and away from their bad habits/annoyances. I don’t think Nigel’s doing any less of a job on Collision. But certainly Kelly and Schoavone are arguably a lesser duo to work alongside. For me, Nigel’s love of Christy-an Cage is worth the price of his heel commentary alone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Oh man, Dan Lambert! You don't know what you got til it's gone sometimes. That asshole, know-it-all high school football coach character was great and, to me is missed. He could have been a credible, critical heel on commentary a la Ventura. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarrie Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 4 hours ago, Technico Support said: I remember a Mania 3 lead-up promo when Bobby was discussing the trophies Hogan and Andre had been given and he described Andre's trophy as being "littler" than Hogan's. How could someone called "The Brain" make such a grammatical error? I was destroyed. Wait, what grammatical error? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 3 hours ago, Curt McGirt said: Oh man, Dan Lambert! You don't know what you got til it's gone sometimes. That asshole, know-it-all high school football coach character was great and, to me is missed. He could have been a credible, critical heel on commentary a la Ventura. Lambert had so much heel potential. He’s also an example of a character who could have benefited from a costume design. The college football coach, similar to JR’s classic look minus (or not) the hat, would’ve sufficed. Without that he was more like modern JR sloppily untucked shirt etc. Yeah, Lambert on commentary would’ve been worth a Rampage try. It’s clearly not an easy job tho. Arn Anderson is one of the greatest mic workers of all time and he was completely out of his Element on commentary. I do think he wouldve eventually gotten great tho. Lambert doing a weekly promo segment where he shit on babyfaces could’ve been or could be a lot of fun too. Edited February 13 by HarryArchieGus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimbra Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I think Lambert was already one-note and repetitive in his interviews, I can't imagine listening to him for a full hour. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryArchieGus Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zimbra said: I think Lambert was already one-note and repetitive in his interviews, I can't imagine listening to him for a full hour. Sure, but we were also seeing his first tries on national television. He was essentially a green rookie. All things considered, I think he did admirably well. But that depends on how much you enjoyed his anti-millennial comedy. Edited February 13 by HarryArchieGus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLowe Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 6 hours ago, For Great Justice said: I don’t think the heel commentator is a thing of the past, in general. I’d argue that the heel commentator is more relevant in the mainstream than ever before (Skip Bayless, and before a recent babyface turn Stephen A Smith). I think the Bayless vibe is what Corey Graves goes for, but it misses the mark for me. And like Heenan, Bayless has decades of skins on the wall as a legitimate journalist before doing his current shtick Maybe these current guys just aren’t that talented at it. Because I think a hot take heel Bayless act in wrestling would work. I can’t stand sports talk and shit like Bayless and the need to be a heel/Devil’s advocate/hot take artist is probably the number 1 reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 I don’t understand a lot of the American sports references above so I could be mistaken, but are commentators being conflated with pundits here? Because hot take artist/heel pundits definitely do exist in real sports and are largely insufferable. But they kind of make sense in punditry as opinion is the entertainment in that setting, so the heel role creates a conflict to play off. But punditry isn’t the same as commentary. In real sports, commentators are mostly neutral, they’re not the primary entertainment, their role is to serve the action. Which is why I’d argue the heel commentary role mostly doesn’t work, as it’s often a distraction from the actual entertainment and just comes off as the commentator trying to get themselves over. Established heel continuing their heel character on commentary is fine. Commentator being a heel for the sake of being a heel is largely crap. And Nigel is fine-good about 80% of the time. But, yes, his heel shtick with Danielson and Christian sounds completely forced. Maybe it’s just more obvious as a Brit, but that just isn’t how people from London talk. It’s totally learned behaviour from watching too much WWF/E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 2 hours ago, JLowe said: I can’t stand sports talk and shit like Bayless and the need to be a heel/Devil’s advocate/hot take artist is probably the number 1 reason. Skip, much like Cornette, is very tolerable when he's discussing history or his time covering sports. If he didn't cover all the major teams of the 80s and 90s (Lakers, Bulls, Cowboys, etc.), it would be tough to justify him being on TV or having credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Nigel's mid-Atlantic accent is a little jarring, yeah. He's getting that thing that Alfred Hayes and Chris Adams got, where despite having had an authentic British accent to begin with, they ended up broadcasting in a fake British accent. Nigel, he pronounces Ts as Ds. Very American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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