FEBRUARY 2024 Wrestling Talk

[StuntmanCrowley]

1 hour ago, Log said:

I could not give less of a shit about how the casual fan feels about that.

This isn't a shot at you odessasteps. I just cannot understand why I, as a wrestling fan, have to tie my fandom to the financial interests of the promotion I choose to watch.

I watch wrestling for my own enjoyment. That's literally the only reason. I would like the promotions I like to be successful and be able to continue to produce wrestling that I like so that I can watch it, but that's it.

I was happy to see Jun Akiyama on my tv wrestling Bryan Danielson on a random Saturday night, and that's as far as I go with it.

This might be my favorite post in my entire time on DVD.

[Log]

19 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

If WWE is any indication, which it oughtta be, catchphrases and repeating talking points ad nauseum might be part of the equation. 

Then I really hope AEW never catches on with the casual fan.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

A handy-dandy guide of things that I, personally, me myself and I only like in pro wrestling, and it will make me more likely to watch on a week-to-week basis: 

- Personalities I can get behind. I don't have a set type. Whether it's the Barbarian booting someone in the mush, Kris Statlander being a goofball alien, Greg Valentine slugging people, 2 Cold Scorpio doing ridiculous things in between dances, Hangman Page being depressed, whatever. If I don't feel a connection to anyone on the show, it's hard for me to get into it.
- Those personalities appearing with regularity. I don't need my favorites to appear every single week, but if they aren't there three or four weeks in a row and there isn't a reason why, I'm going to get discouraged and start to watch something else.
- Stakes behind why folks are fighting. A bigger share of the purse for the winner? Great! Moving up the rankings? Spectacular! These two folks just don't like each other and want to punch each other in the jaw? I can do that. But if it's just a cold match thrown out there for the sake of filling time and nothing ever comes of it, I'm going to be annoyed. In other words: is this match destined to be a Coliseum Video Exclusive, where it's just there to pad out the Supertape? Then I probably don't need to see it.

(A note: Squashes and enhancement matches would fall under the stakes rule, as long as there's a clear establishment that Star Wrestler X is mauling Local Talent Y to help them climb up the ladder.)

Things I absolutely don't care about:
- Star ratings. Couldn't care less. Send them to the pits of Hades. Abolish the ratings systems on Cagematch, while we're at it.
- How many fans are watching. Are people in the crowd supposed to make me care about what's happening in the ring? Why should I care about what the TV rating is?
- Going back to my earlier point, filler matches and padding. Someone earlier said that it's fine to let the wrestlers wrestle, and I'm fine with letting folks get reps, especially in this era where house shows are going by the wayside. But if the match is just there to chew up ten minutes of a show, I'm okay with skipping it. If I want to watch a match in a vacuum for the sake of saying I'm watching wrestling, I'll pull up YouTube and watch a match featuring people I know I'll like rather than random people being presented to me with no context having a match that the promotion has no intention of following up on.

I couldn't tell you how many of those filler matches are actually happening nowadays because I watch things after the fact if they interest me, but there you go. Someone get working on a time machine and get me a young 2 Cold Scorpio again.

[JLowe]

1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

 Not sure when long title reigns became a bad thing. I mean, the Roman one is silly, but having someone be a champion for more than six months or a year. Is it just the need for instant gratification for the short attention span generation of fans raised on the Attitude Era and later? 

I’m fine with them when they are the “fighting champion” trope, with the very rare “heel ducking challenges” run. Didn’t OC have more title defenses in his year-long run than Roman has in 4?

[Matt D]

6 minutes ago, Stefanie Sparkleface said:

Going back to my earlier point, filler matches and padding. Someone earlier said that it's fine to let the wrestlers wrestle, and I'm fine with letting folks get reps, especially in this era where house shows are going by the wayside. But if the match is just there to chew up ten minutes of a show, I'm okay with skipping it.

Let's see where you fall on something then. Bryan Keith vs Malakai Black. It's a way to get Keith out there in another singles match against a "name" to show that he can hold his own, a way to quell some of the complaints about Black not getting singles matches, a way for Black to re-establish himself further in that arena with a win on TV, a big bomb fest that will get the crowd chanting This is Awesome in the last moments. But primarily, it's a means to the end of having Black win and then Briscoe to come after him post-match with the spike only to have his vengeance cut off as the rest of the House of Black charge in. Another stop on the road to whatever blowoff eventually happens there.

Is there enough meat on the bone there to make you happy or are you thumbs down on Keith vs Black because there wasn't enough purpose in them wrestling?

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

1 minute ago, Matt D said:

Let's see where you fall on something then. Bryan Keith vs Malakai Black. It's a way to get Keith out there in another singles match against a "name" to show that he can hold his own, a way to quell some of the complaints about Black not getting singles matches, a way for Black to re-establish himself further in that arena with a win on TV, a big bomb fest that will get the crowd chanting This is Awesome in the last moments. But primarily, it's a means to the end of having Black win and then Briscoe to come after him post-match with the spike only to have his vengeance cut off as the rest of the House of Black charge in. Another stop on the road to whatever blowoff eventually happens there.

Is there enough meat on the bone there to make you happy or are you thumbs down on Keith vs Black because there wasn't enough purpose in them wrestling?

As a means of Malakai Black reestablishing himself as a single and/or Bryan Keith looking to climb the ladder? Totally fine. Malakai hasn't worked singles in forever, Bryan is low on the list as far as prospective rankings go, so from a logistical standpoint it makes sense because Malakai is (re-)starting from scratch and Bryan's pretty much at the bottom.

If they spin it out into another angle, even better. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Ive said this before, but my interest in ratings and other metrics (specifically AEW's) are almost a direct result of the 2001-2019 WWE monopoly - I lovingly call it "WCW/ECW Derangement Syndrome." Like, obviously I have no skin in the game from a financial perspective, but as a fan of those two promotions over the WWF in the mid to late '90s, I feel almost what could be described as a small level of "responsibility" in making sure AEW succeeds so no one ever again has to live through stuff like the XWF, WWA, WSX, TNA and ROH's failure to launch on a meaningful level, god damn Wrestlelicious, LU, the WOS revival, whatever WRP was... i mean, the list goes on.

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

Collision ratings for last weekend would say “no” (385k viewers for Collision)

It’s very possible that the only way to make Collision work is to make Dynamite more popular too so that if Collision gets 50% of Dynamite’s ratings, it’s a higher number.

Feels like asking for people to watch a Saturday night show for a promotion whose main show is kinda stagnant in ratings is a tough ask.

Aside from more wrestling for the people that love it, I don't know what purpose Collision is supposed to serve.  I mean I guess getting more people from AEW's small country sized roster on TV is cool.  It's just funny how Collision was supposed to be another Rampage-style one hour filler show, then Punk came back and it was extended to be the two hour CM Punk show, but then Punk threw a shitfit again and now AEW is left holding the bag for a show they probably never wanted but now can't get rid of.

 

Edited February 27 by Technico Support

[JLowe]

55 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

Collision ratings for last weekend would say “no” (385k viewers for Collision)

It’s very possible that the only way to make Collision work is to make Dynamite more popular too so that if Collision gets 50% of Dynamite’s ratings, it’s a higher number.

Feels like asking for people to watch a Saturday night show for a promotion whose main show is kinda stagnant in ratings is a tough ask.

 I mean TV ratings across the board on a Saturday night are lower than a Wednesday, right? I’m 52 years old and married and even I am doing fun social things then at least 30% of the time because I don’t have to work the next day. Wednesday night I’m unwinding with Dynamite after work and dinner before going to bed for work the next day. I’d bet the DVR +7. between the 2 shows has less of a gap than the live ratings.

[Matt D]

1 minute ago, Stefanie Sparkleface said:

As a means of Malakai Black reestablishing himself as a single and/or Bryan Keith looking to climb the ladder? Totally fine. Malakai hasn't worked singles in forever, Bryan is low on the list as far as prospective rankings go, so from a logistical standpoint it makes sense because Malakai is (re-)starting from scratch and Bryan's pretty much at the bottom.

If they spin it out into another angle, even better. 

They ran that on Saturday. That was the purpose (or the combo of purposes). That's the "bar" AEW generally has. They almost never run a match just for the sake of running a match. On ROH, they do. On Dynamite and Collision, no way. On Rampage, most of the time, no. I'm not saying it's always bad faith actors making the complaint as unimaginative people, maybe? Thankfully very few people on the Board are unimaginative.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

2 minutes ago, Matt D said:

They ran that on Saturday. That was the purpose (or the combo of purposes). That's the "bar" AEW generally has. They almost never run a match just for the sake of running a match. On ROH, they do. On Dynamite and Collision, no way. On Rampage, most of the time, no. I'm not saying it's always bad faith actors making the complaint as unimaginative people, maybe? Thankfully very few people on the Board are unimaginative.

Oh, well that's good then! I should mention that my post wasn't geared towards any specific promotion - unless one has time machine tech, in which case I'd also like to request a young Barbarian be brought back too - but considering the flow of conversation was very AEW-centric I can see there that was coming from.

Wait. Tony Khan's rich. YOU GOT A TIME MACHINE, TONY?! STOP HOLDING OUT ON US.

[Technico Support]

On the "trying to attract casual fans" front, it's pretty clear AEW's efforts to sign people most known for their WWE stints is the way they're going about that.  Are Edge and Christian luring old WWE fans to AEW?  I seriously don't care about Edge and, as much as I like Christian's gimmick, I'd rather see AEW's designated JTTS crew fighting over the TNT title than just doing endless jobs to guys higher on the card.  Justice for Lee Moriarty!

[Infinit]

1 hour ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Looking at the Wednesday rating, it's safe to assume there are ppl watching Dynamite who don't automatically watch Saturday Collision. A well produced video package has good potential to add viewers in pretty much any content based industry. There's a reason every movie has a trailer running well ahead of the release. 

Given that they announced the match 10 days in advance, I was really shocked they didn't spend 2-3 minutes to do a really cool hype video for Danielson vs Akiyama. In general, AEW should be hyping every Danielson singles match as a big event moving forward.  I hope that this was a lesson learned.

In other news, WO reported that Tama Tonga is headed to WWE. Which I think is great news...Tama is a really good dude and I hope management is scared as fuck of his dad and he gets a chance to shine.

Did I ever tell my Tama story here? I had front row seats to a ROH/NJPW War of the Worlds show here in Toronto in May 2019 and the Sons of Haku had a 6 man match. During the match Tama powdered out and he stopped in front of me and complimented me on a ring I was wearing and gave me a "2 sweet".  When they came back in August we had a laugh about it. Goodtimes.

[BloodyChamp]

I’ve only ever seen the word “casual” in this context on internet message boards. To me it was a compliment because it meant “person who doesn’t know as much about this subject and doesn’t spend as much time here because you’re usually somewhere with girls” lol!

[SirSmUgly]

All these companies, and I just want a true Southern rasslin' throwback. NWA Powerrr was good right up until the pandemic hit, and the wheels fell off (and probably, it couldn't have lasted that long anyway considering Corgan being incompetent). 

There's more wrestling on free TV than ever, and it all feels vaguely like the same shit. 

[twiztor]

1 hour ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I feel almost what could be described as a small level of "responsibility" in making sure AEW succeeds so no one ever again has to live through stuff like the XWF, WWA, WSX, TNA and ROH's failure to launch on a meaningful level, god damn Wrestlelicious, LU, the WOS revival, whatever WRP was... i mean, the list goes on.

i fully agree with your larger point, but one of my favorite things about wrestling is all of those short-lived promotions. i have watched all of those "we're going to be the new National #2" (except Wrestlelicious) and have enjoyed each of them to some extent. Whether that be for their off-the-wall ideas, their up-and-coming talent, their familiar talent in new takes, or even their 'back to the roots' ideas, i appreciated them all.

[zendragon]

6 hours ago, Just Dave said:

I just went with the two first mid carders I could think of. I don't watch much WWE for this reason. I don't need overly elaborate stories for every match. There's some dudes from CMLL who take exception to how one of theirs was treated by Jon Moxley? Dope. Let's fight it out. That's all I need. And I like the booking of the Three Way title match because 1)it's (probably) gonna allow them to take the belt off of Joe without him dropping a fall and 2) It's another chapter in Hangman's "descent into madness." I'll take that over whatever inning we're in of Cody trying to "finish the story." Shit was played out six months ago. 

 

I guess I've just always watched wrestling with the mindset of someone who's competed most of his life. If I find myself in a game/match, winning is stakes enough. Winning feels awesome. Losing feels shitty. Like Billy Beane said; "I hate losing. I hate losing more than I like winning." You don't become a professional athlete without being wired that way. Unless you're Anthony Rendon. I'd be ok with the commentators saying something like "winning pays more than losing" or "these guys are both trying to get themselves in better position for a future title match," but the undercard is exactly that. Just like in MMA, there should be an inherent understanding that the goal of being in the under/mid card is getting out and into the main event. 

PAY WINDA BABY!!!!

 

And just to throw my two cents in on Jun v Dragon, yes sometimes AEW has an issue of throwing new people out there and seemingly expecting everyone to automatically know everyone. But I felt in this case the announcers did a good job of conveying who Jun was why this match was a big deal and the overall stakes re: Kingston.

I also felt the video package for Adam Copeland v Minoru was well done in this regard

[Matt D]

Just now, zendragon said:

I also felt the video package for Adam Copeland v Minoru was well done in this regard

Wow. I forgot that match even happened. They put out a ton of content.

[zendragon]

1 hour ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Ive said this before, but my interest in ratings and other metrics (specifically AEW's) are almost a direct result of the 2001-2019 WWE monopoly - I lovingly call it "WCW/ECW Derangement Syndrome." Like, obviously I have no skin in the game from a financial perspective, but as a fan of those two promotions over the WWF in the mid to late '90s, I feel almost what could be described as a small level of "responsibility" in making sure AEW succeeds so no one ever again has to live through stuff like the XWF, WWA, WSX, TNA and ROH's failure to launch on a meaningful level, god damn Wrestlelicious, LU, the WOS revival, whatever WRP was... i mean, the list goes on.

I don't need the whole world to come around to my world view but whether its a small music festival or a wrestling alternative I just need my small corner of the world to survive

[Technico Support]

Yeah, if AEW closed tomorrow and I had 5 hours per week back, I'd probably just re-up independentwrestling.tv and live off West Coast Pro, Prestige, etc.

[SturmCRF]

On the long title reigns issue, there's nothing inherently wrong with them, they can be great if they're done well, but they're absolute death to my interest as soon as it's telegraphed that they're going to be long.

Almost as soon as MJF won the AEW title, he was out there bragging about how long he was going to hold it, he had his custom belt, and you knew he wasn't dropping it for the best part of a year. Most of the drama got sucked out of everything he did from then on.

Hiromu's recent Jr Title run became largely boring as soon as he started talking about beating the record for defences.

WWE is barely watchable because they have five hours of TV a week that can hardly even bother to pretend there's any chance you'll see anything noteworthy happen, cos Gunther or Roman or even Seth are unlikely to be dethroned on a lesser PPV, let alone Raw or Smackdown.

There's a delicate balancing act where you can book an epic title reign to only reveal itself as such gradually, but I can't remember the last time I saw anyone manage it.

[dragonzombie]

TKO Earnings

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/tko-earnings-q4-2023-1235837451/

Ariel Emanuel is now the Executive Chairman, he replaced Vince McMahon.

[JLowe]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

Yeah, if AEW closed tomorrow and I had 5 hours per week back, I'd probably just re-up independentwrestling.tv and live off West Coast Pro, Prestige, etc.

I’d probably play video games and watch old sitcoms on Tubi. 

[Matt D]

I’d learn to finally figure out how to tell Villano IV from Villano V just from how they wrestle.

[bobholly138]

On 2/26/2024 at 11:12 AM, Stefanie Sparkleface said:

You'd think there'd be more Brass Knuckles titles these days. Is this because they're banned in Illinois and AEW runs Chicago so frequently? "Hotel Room Soap Covered In Tape Title" just doesn't flow as well or give people excuses to wear kneepads over their jeans along with a free t-shirt from a radio station.

Since MS got mentioned.

Battlezone Championship Wrestling ,used to be the only NWA fed in MS,has a Brass Knuks title. Whoever holds it picks a match specialty and all their maatches while champion are that. Like current Champ is Pit Bull Shane Lambert and he is always doing dog collar matches.