WWE TV - 11/27 - 12/3/2023 - Now With More CM Punk Than Ever!

[The Comedian]

10 hours ago, Peck said:

Triple H gets Jelly Roll...  a huge step up from Vince who wanted Conway Twitty.

To be fair I'd much rather watch Conway Twitty than Jelly Roll as well...

[For Great Justice]

I feel about a Punk/Rollins feud the way some would feel about a Davey Richards / Ospreay feud, or how Natural would feel about a Hogan/Penta feud. Just…nope. Fifth circle of hell stuff. Zero chance. I’m good over here watching NXT.

Elsewhere though, as somehow who has always been the high man on Orton I absolutely adore this “beloved legend” run. It’s awesome. Give that man his flowers.

[odessasteps]

Better to have two people you don't like feuding with each other, and one match to skip, than tying them up with people you do like.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

Punk in it for the money is an interesting thought. Because he's portrayed the public persona of it's not about the money at all it's about his principles. Like he was making tippy top guy money in WWE in 2014. The money wasn't enough because the product was soul crushing to him.

I think I'm so down on that promo because it was so disingenuous. Because it bums me out that he's sold out. And not in the general sense of how we talk about sellouts normally. Slightly changing to fit somewhere and make more money. I'm talking about a whole sale rejecting who he is as a person just to spite AEW.

He went to AEW to prove WWE was wrong and he was right. And somewhere along the way him being aggrieved by AEW made him do a 180 and decide actually everything I ever said about WWE is true but I still don't care I'm gonna suffer through it to fuck AEW over.

The PG Punk shots people were saying about him in AEW never fit. Out of the gate he was taking shots at WWE and how it wasn't pro wrestling. Out of the gate last night he was full on company shill sunshine & rainbow overly sugary sweet and it clashed with the last 20 years of who he himself has presented himself as.

Yuck.

[Steventon]

Corporate Heel CM Punk is probably the best and most interesting thing they could do here with him bum-licking HHH and Vince. Although 2 problems: 1) Corporate Heels are one of the most played out, done to death tropes in WWE and 2) the top babyfaces, Seth & Cody, are also massive corporate bootlickers. He'd need someone authentically anti-establishment to be his foil, and that's pretty slim pickings outside Zayn and Owens

[hammerva]

I am sure I am overthinking it but it felt like wrestling equivalent of the 80's yuppie who was a 60's hippie that found out in the 70's that it was either stupid to believe or that the system would never allow it to begin with, quits, and now wants to cash in

[NoFistsJustFlips]

One more interesting Punk related thing I noticed. It's the most social thing ever blah blah blah. WWE is tagging his titter in everything. Casual fans who may not even be aware of AEW that click on his page are gonna see sooooo many AEW promotion tweets. Everything is still up. He hasn't posted since he had to have the foot surgery. But it's all positivity and promotion for AEW.

WWE may be inadvertently exposing a lot of new people to AEW by tagging him so much / not asking for him to remove all the AEW promotion. Just find that interesting.

[odessasteps]

Also possible he eventually scrubs that stuff from his timeline. 

[Cobra Commander]

What percentage of people use Twitter/X so casually that AEW was outta sight/outta mind? I’d think the Twitter population not watching AEW pretty much made that choice awhile ago.

[Cobra Commander]

Anyways, this Punk thing will test a theory that I have that the WWE is a lot better than AEW at not leaking constantly (aside from when the WWE leaks to serve their interests)

I’m sure there have been some talents who were pains in the ass that didn’t have their dramas aired out constantly.

[Cobra Commander]

2 hours ago, Steventon said:

Corporate Heel CM Punk is probably the best and most interesting thing they could do here with him bum-licking HHH and Vince. Although 2 problems: 1) Corporate Heels are one of the most played out, done to death tropes in WWE and 2) the top babyfaces, Seth & Cody, are also massive corporate bootlickers. He'd need someone authentically anti-establishment to be his foil, and that's pretty slim pickings outside Zayn and Owens

A heel Corporate Punk who the corporate suits don’t actually want to be corporate would be somewhat fresh? Not Mankind in 1998, but something like…

”We’re not paying you to be a nice happy guy, we want the grump who will make things difficult”

”Tough”

Anyways… I probably typed this already but… lots of people are great provided they don’t have to deal with being challenged.

Wrestling has probably done Jekyll/Hyde before? Or at least did it better than the days of Funhouse Bray/The Fiend.

[S.K.o.S.]

3 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Punk in it for the money is an interesting thought. Because he's portrayed the public persona of it's not about the money at all it's about his principles. Like he was making tippy top guy money in WWE in 2014. The money wasn't enough because the product was soul crushing to him.

I didn't watch (not even clips) so I don't know exactly how he came across when he said it, but consider that "I'm here to make money" could mean "I'm here to cash a paycheck" or it could mean "I'm here to put on some good matches and cut some good promos".

As many times as I've thought "SURELY they must know that this segment was bad" and been completely wrong, I do still give them enough credit to believe that everyone in the room, most of all Punk, knows that promo was completely disingenuous and that it's leading to something. Not planning on watching either way, though.

[Cobra Commander]

one idea of CM Punk storyline advancement

Next week: CM Punk comes out before Seth Rollins/Jey Uso to shake their hands, only for Seth Rollins to be perturbed by the whole thing

2 weeks from now: CM Punk shows unhappiness for the first time after being told that he can't go on last because the main event is Gunther/Miz in Cleveland. Or maybe he'll have a promo that is cut short by Gunther/Miz, like what happened this week. But we'll find that he just decided to not go outt there

3 weeks from now: CM Punk wants Seth Rollins to be less dramatic

The second idea would be a bit of a throwaway if you're not gonna have those two work together.

[Craig H]

I have thought about that promo way too much. Was it purposefully soulless? Was he intentionally phoning it in for the purpose of something greater? And in WWE, was that last line about being there for money cannon? That line isn’t included on WWE’s YouTube clip so it makes me wonder if it’s never acknowledged again or if it’s brought up by Seth.

And I can’t believe I’m typing this out, but if the plan is to have Seth go Heenan nuts trying to constantly point out Punk is a fraud and is actually the heel, turning himself heel in the process, only to later get fans to flip by having them realize Seth was right, then that seems pretty cool. Unfortunately, the attention span for WWE viewers is so low and their creative is so inconsistent that I can’t see them properly threading that needle. I think it would have the potential to be Sami/Bloodline great, but it also seems so much more complicated to pull off. Creatively though, it works, as long as you’re someone who doesn’t detest Seth already.

In a way, when I thought about it more, I was reminded of Jericho’s next to last run in WWE where he came back with the led jacket, would come to the ring, do nothing, originally be seen as a face, but was really a heel. I mean, it’s either that, or they really think white meat babyface Punk is the best direction and given that it’s WWE, I can’t trust them to not think that’s the best direction.

[The Old-Fashioned Gamer]

5 hours ago, hammerva said:

I am sure I am overthinking it but it felt like wrestling equivalent of the 80's yuppie who was a 60's hippie that found out in the 70's that it was either stupid to believe or that the system would never allow it to begin with, quits, and now wants to cash in

That’s a decent description of adulthood for most of us.  It’s a lot easier to be a pie-in-the-sky idealist when you’re young.  
 

I’ve never met Punk and had no idea he was back in wrestling until this morning, but I imagine his worldview is a lot different now that he’s approaching middle-age & has made at least a few million dollars in his career.  At least I hope it is. Actually, I would guess that’s why he’s back.  Not many jobs pay as well as his WWE run did.  Twelve million looks like an awful lot until you start spending it then realize you want to both spend it and have it last you another four decades or so.

i’m not likely to watch Raw to see him but appearing on Raw & being pro-WWE is certainly a moment.  I’m a little curious about his AEW run, though I will probably never see any of it (I’ve watched AEW twice - both in the past month.  No plans at present to go for the hat trick).

[John from Cincinnati]

38 minutes ago, Craig H said:

And in WWE, was that last line about being there for money cannon? That line isn’t included on WWE’s YouTube clip so it makes me wonder if it’s never acknowledged again or if it’s brought up by Seth.

It is on the YouTube clip though? Right at the end. 

 

 

[blitzkrieg]

Kelani and Kiana James in the Women's Iron Survivor Challenge qualifying match and Bron Breaker and Eddy Thorpe for the men. 

Assuming that Kelani ends up in after Roxanne prevents Kiana from doing something dastardly. 

Edit: Dragunov/Frazer added to the card.

Edited November 28, 2023 by blitzkrieg

[Cobra Commander]

anyways... knowing what got reported today, the "in it for the money" line was about Danielson's tweet but there's enough deniability there

[piranesi]

I've stayed so far away from WWE programming the last five years I think  (maybe more) so that this showing up online was maybe the first non "stock market/lawsuit" story that I even have seen about them in a long time. So maybe I should just stay out of it. But when I clicked and saw that all the buzz was for: CM Punk and Randy Orton and R Truth...returning....again....and everyone is excited but in a way that's like "well this is probably literally the best we could have hoped for from this company" and just that much contact with them has made me exhausted from WWE all over again.

I didn't even see it. I just read it and felt tired and beaten.

Edited November 28, 2023 by piranesi

[Craig H]

1 hour ago, John from Cincinnati said:

It is on the YouTube clip though? Right at the end. 

 

 

Ooh…That was not there last night. Interesting.

[Matt D]

22 minutes ago, piranesi said:

I've stayed so far away from WWE programming the last five years I think  (maybe more) so that this showing up online was maybe the first non "stock market/lawsuit" story that I even have seen about them in a long time. So maybe I should just stay out of it. But when I clicked and saw that all the buzz was for: CM Punk and Randy Orton and R Truth...returning....again....and everyone is excited but in a way that's like "well this is probably literally the best we could have hoped for from this company" and just that much contact with them has made me exhausted from WWE all over again.

I didn't even see it. I just read it and felt tired and beaten.

What was most jarring to me about Punk's promo, as someone who will read about the company but rarely see anything, is just how well-trained the audience was with their chants and cheers and reactions. They knew exactly when it was time to react and exactly how to react and they did so in unison without fail. It had struck me a little in the debut clip from the night before when everyone chanted "It's Clobbering Time" which crowds rarely actually managed to do in any sort of audible way, but that was one well trained Pavlovian audience.

[Cobra Commander]

2023 wrestling, where the mic work is 'real' and the matches are 'fake'

[Gorman]

3 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

one idea of CM Punk storyline advancement

Next week: CM Punk comes out before Seth Rollins/Jey Uso to shake their hands, only for Seth Rollins to be perturbed by the whole thing

2 weeks from now: CM Punk shows unhappiness for the first time after being told that he can't go on last because the main event is Gunther/Miz in Cleveland. Or maybe he'll have a promo that is cut short by Gunther/Miz, like what happened this week. But we'll find that he just decided to not go out there

That would be for the best, considering how things usually go for Punk in Cleveland (Gall, Moxley).

[Cobra Commander]

4 minutes ago, Gorman said:

That would be for the best, considering how things usually go for Punk in Cleveland (Gall, Moxley).

looking at the Blackhawks schedule.. maybe Punk can just send in a promo saying he's not able to appear in Cleveland on the 11th because he was at the Blackhawks game the night before and his voice is a little hoarse, and "I know that any time I'm not able to give you, the fans, 100%, it's okay to take a night off, i'll be back next week in Des Moines"

Punk is pretty obviously a better heel but I guess until he actually becomes a heel, we won't know if he's really being a disingenuous babyface laying the groundwork for a turn. But it would be a surprise if they really did go with the heat of Punk/Rollins involving Punk being a gloryhound

[John from Cincinnati]

1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

anyways... knowing what got reported today, the "in it for the money" line was about Danielson's tweet but there's enough deniability there

I really don’t think that was about Danielson. It fits with how he’s been presenting during his AEW run. He told Moxley he’d be the dollars and the cents rather than the heart and soul, and on his Collision return he made a big deal about this being the professional wrestling business (heavy emphasis on business). First million dollar house on his back. I’m sure I’m forgetting some others. I think it was Craig who nailed it earlier, dude seems to enjoy making money and commenting on it.