Ring of Honor - 2023

[Shartnado]

I said bad things about Shibata vs Garcia, but it appeared I wasn't drunk enough! I watched it in a proper condition and it was awesome! The dancing while sitting down despite being hit...holy shit!

But yeah, PAC vs Claudio, Jesus fuck what a wrestling match. Not the best ever, but by exactly the two archetypes that COULD have the best match I've ever seen! The Rick Rude - Ricky Steamboat mold!

Edited August 1, 2023 by Shartnado
PAC v Claudio too

[DreamBroken]

I def wanna see Shane Taylor vs Joe.  Shibata/Woods delivered the goods as expected. 

Fun squashes from Robyn Renegade and Legit Leyla

And this week we DO get a Zack Clayton appearance! Dalton Castle's promos to the camera during his entrance and post match are hilarious. 

Komander & Vikingo make a killer team again.  Enjoyed Athena/Diamante and the post-match bits.

[Matt D]

Because of the timing of it all, I haven't written up a full ROH TV show in a while. Let me at least try to get halfway.

Shane Taylor vs Christopher Daniels: They should do a deal where Daniels tries to go after the Pure title as the one thing he never won. This could have been JD Drake vs Shane Taylor (they're allies but that would have just made it more fun). This had a lot of Taylor just crushing Daniels with well-timed, good looking cutoffs. Crowd was behind Daniels and he worked up well. It's a skillset not a lot of people on the roster utilize.

Aussie Open vs Iron Savages: Lexy gave ROH Renee level reactions to the Iron Savages promo. The Aussie Open promo on the way through the backstage area was a great idea. Not sure if it hit but good thought. Fletcher's little half cape makes me think that if this doesn't work, they could run a gimmick where Davis is an ancient gruff vampire and he's just turned Fletcher. Think it through. I'm a little worried that Aussie Open just worked in the wrong places for too long when it comes to tag team structure and things breaking down way too much and way too often. This was a little more grounded than other things I've seen of them where the break down basically worked as part of the transition to heel offense (that works for me). There was a really off moment of them just hanging out by the ropes waiting for the Savages to get them. Finishing stretch was extended but smart and exciting and impressive given the size of the Savages. Good match overall. Better than the Embassy match from last week. Gordlow would have liked it a lot.

Shibata vs Woods: I like Woods' jacket with his name down the middle. This is a hot show so far. The early grappling was a lot of fun. It didn't have that Fujiwara-esque level of setting a move up two moves in advance that is the top top level of this kind of thing, but it was competitive and believable. Always nice to see John Walters who was part of the local indy in college before his ROH run. It's fun to see Shibata have to deal with an 80s-style manager. Anyway, I liked the early stuff a little more than the suplexes and strike exchange later, but still good overall. The PK seems so silly compared to everything else, like it's Shibata's people's elbow. I'd love if this led to a Woods face turn but I don't see it in the works.

Zack Clayton vs Dalton Castle: This would have been useful before I wrote up Clayton. Obviously the backstage bit with Stokely was awesome. Actually, it wouldn't have been useful. It was a good Castle showcase, but past some droopy selling (not in a bad way) I didn't see a ton one way or the other. I'm glad they seem to be running with Datlon a bit though.

Infantry vs Jora Johl/Nick Comoroto: New music for Comoroto? Very 80s and energetic. i liked this. Most of the time Infantry matches are more back and forth and Bravo worked well as FIP. Johl still seems a little bit lost sometimes but he almost seems to have lost a bit of mass and is moving slightly better because of that. Comoroto looked great with the cutoff clothesline and press slam and corner charge. I don't know about that boot/leg sweep combo. Still, overall liked it. I don't think a Comoroto pairing is the answer for Johl but hey keep asking the questions.

Leyla Hirsch vs Miranda Vionette: Leyla was walking a little bit better. I forget which woman was talking about doing a pure rules match but I'd like to see Leyla and Deeb or Martinez give it a shot. Hey, storytelling! Maria's out there scouting. One thing I like about Hirsch in these squashes is that her stuff doesn't look like "spots" so much as just her being violent in the moment. Very few people on the roster that wrestle that way.

[Curt McGirt]

I just remembered I got a password for ROH (did I sign up for Honor Club or not though, I don't remember) so I can watch the weekly shows! I'll watch this one before Rampage to make it feel like a really good Thursday with Impact and New Japan having a perfectly fine pair of shows back to back. 

EDIT: Well shit, I guess I did sign up for Honor Club. I'm able to watch the PPVs so that means I did, right? Was probably drunk when I did it thus not remembering. Oh well. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Curt McGirt

[Matt D]

Still playing catch up, but Athena's performance against Diamante was absolutely electric. It wasn't the best match she's had in ROH but it was one of those "swimming when everyone else is trying to walk through the water" type performances that you only ever see out of people like Negro Casas or Terry Funk. 

As for next week...

Spoiler

• Very glad to hear that we're getting Shane Taylor vs Joe instead of Joe vs Gravity II
• Curious what Gates of Agony vs Workhorsemen will look like
• I'm here for Dalton Castle vs Slim J
• If it's competitive then Rachel Ellering vs Athena should be fun
• Nese vs Pat Buck should be the definition of 3.5 stars.
• Billie Starkz vs Robyn Renegade. Lee Moriarty vs Andrew Everett(?). Leyla Hirsch vs Angelica Risk. Cole Karter vs Rhett Titus. All matches.

 

[Shartnado]

23 hours ago, Matt D said:

Still playing catch up, but Athena's performance against Diamante was absolutely electric. It wasn't the best match she's had in ROH but it was one of those "swimming when everyone else is trying to walk through the water" type performances that you only ever see out of people like Negro Casas or Terry Funk. 

As for next week...

  Reveal hidden contents

• Very glad to hear that we're getting Shane Taylor vs Joe instead of Joe vs Gravity II
• Curious what Gates of Agony vs Workhorsemen will look like
• I'm here for Dalton Castle vs Slim J
• If it's competitive then Rachel Ellering vs Athena should be fun
• Nese vs Pat Buck should be the definition of 3.5 stars.
• Billie Starkz vs Robyn Renegade. Lee Moriarty vs Andrew Everett(?). Leyla Hirsch vs Angelica Risk. Cole Karter vs Rhett Titus. All matches.

 

Swimming in ankle deep or above the waist deep water? I guess I'd want to take a look either way, but now I can't get the image of Athena trying to swim in an ankle deep water while others are just walking in it out of my head!

[Matt D]

7 minutes ago, Shartnado said:

Swimming in ankle deep or above the waist deep water? I guess I'd want to take a look either way, but now I can't get the image of Athena trying to swim in an ankle deep water while others are just walking in it out of my head!

Just asking for a magic forearm.

Anyway, I thought the Vikingo/Komander vs Workhorsemen match was great.

[Shartnado]

59 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Just asking for a magic forearm.

Anyway, I thought the Vikingo/Komander vs Workhorsemen match was great.

I'm glad there is an ocean between Athena and me. I doubt she'll swim THAT far, right?

Yes, the tag match sounds amazing. Also, I was able to screen mirror my tablet to TV so finally Watching ROH looks the way it should!

Josh Woods vs Shibata was intense!

Nick Comoroto has awesome entrance theme! Is that new or has he had that always? I guess he only used Factory's theme before this, right?

Edited August 9, 2023 by Shartnado
swim not swing

[DreamBroken]

Dalton/Slim J was a fun 5 min opener. Nice to see Andrew Everett pop up as well.

Great to see Rachael Ellering again, thought she looked very good in with Athena. 

Gates of Agony vs Workhorsemen turned into a blast. Workhorsemen working babyface was unexpectedly awesome. Thought they'd pull off the win to set up the trios match they were fighting for but it was not to be. Good stuff though.

Enjoyed Leyla Hirsch squash and her prior interview, wanting her shot at the title.

Loved Billie vs. Robyn and all the post-match chaos. Billie looked great and Athena's involvement was intriguing. 

Shane Taylor/Gravity made a fun 5 min main event. Almost thought Gravity was pulling it off after the super samoan drop. Hyped for whenever we're getting Taylor vs. Joe now.

[The Natural]

Lexi trying to hold it together from Stokley.

[Matt D]

Catch up. Let's get through half the show.

Dalton Castle vs Slim J: Exactly what I want out of my ROH. Castle's strikes looked great. Slim J's everything looked great. The knee to a dangling Slim J's head was one of the best looking spots all year (and set up well). Yikes. Exactly what it needed to be.

Iron Savages vs Ali/Pierece: Boulder's pose walk is solid stuff. Ali, between his reactions and shots, made for a good enhancement alent. Apparently the savage sauce turned Bronson into a Bushwhacker. I like that Boulder does different "slam two guys at once" moves and it's not just the one standard one.

Infantry vs Dice/Myk: Good high-energy entrance for Infantry. Maybe don't do two squashes in a row, ROH? Probably the most confident I've seen Bravo look in there but they still have a big mid 90s WCW C-Show vibe. That's not a terrible thing or anything. Dice didn't really have a chance to show anything here.

Hirsch is super tiny next to Maria.

Moriarty vs Everett: I want to see Everett vs the Iron Savages or Big Bill. The match got fun once Moriarty drove the arm down and took over. A lot of his stuff there was properly dickish. Everett's selling on his comeback was pretty good. Spinning reinera into the Border City Stretch is a great visual for a finish. They hit everything clean. Nothing to complain about here.

Nese vs Buck: Good on Nese for drawing a Waffle House (and subsequent loud "We want waffles") chant. The opening stretch sort of made me want to see Moriarty vs Buck. Speaking of hitting stuff clean... these two.  Did Buck train Sterling? Usually he doesn't lay boots on people like this. Buck shouting out WAFFLES! on his comeback was the real sign of a pro, let me tell you.

[AxB]

Smart Mark Sterling is indeed a Create-a-Pro graduate, like MJF, Max Caster, Kris Statlander, and so on.

[Matt D]

Athena vs Ellering: This was really good, probably one of Athena's best proving ground matches. Ellering leaned into the strength and looked like she belonged in there. Athena gave her a ton. Again, just her fluidity and reactions, I can't get over the metaphor that she's swimming while everyone else is walking through water. 

Workhorsemen vs Gates of Agony: They couldn't give them the win to set up a trios title match here, especially given the pre-match interaction? Crowd seemed unsure about the Workhorsemen but buzzed a bit when it became Drake vs Toa. Took a bit for the Workhorsemen to find their babyface fire but the entire finishing stretch was well put together, except for the finish where everything seemed out of place. I wouldn't mind if they did run it back at some point.

Karter vs Titus: Titus looked great here. He did this backslide roll through into a double underhook that was picture perfect. Karter was ok. He needs matches like this. I don't know if this is the moment to do the Maria scouting thing as the Kingdom is going to be involved with whatever is happening with MJF and Cole.

Hirsch vs Risk: Hirsch is moving pretty well in there now. That's good. Not much else to say for this one. I think Hirsch vs Athena, when it happens, will be a lot of fun.

Starkz vs Renegade: It's good Billie lets herself be vulnerable and wrestle to her age. Why go away from what makes you unique, right? I have some concerns about her structuring so far, one of those people who were rewarded heavily early for some of the wrong things. She hit a German off the ropes almost at the start of the match, for instance. It's things like that. Very indy. Hopefully she figures it out along those lines. Intrigued by the post match. 

Gravity vs Taylor: This seemed kind of small for a tournament final. Taylor doing the slow walk (and paying for it). Gravity with the super samoan drop. Taylor doing the Joe cut off in the corner to tease their match. Those are the things you remember. I'm excited for that match but imagine they save it for after Wembley.

[Curt McGirt]

I came in about 1/2 hour late but this is my first time actually watching this shit

Spoiler

- Athena had a competitive squash against somebody, Brittney G or something. It wasn't a superbrutal asskicking or anything but she's still working the one-shot elbow gimmick. Dammit, she still deserves to be on AEW with the belt, but Tony prefers to bask in the rarified air of... Britt Baker. And Hikaru Shida. Phew... I'm halfway to thinking he is just sabotaging his own women's division on purpose. Riccaboni almost crawled all the way under the desk to avoid Athena which was a hoot.

- Stokely shows some lucha stylings haha! Joe lets him faceplant off the top which puts him to sleep while Joseph puts one of the Boys to sleep. Momentary fun. 

- Was busy reading the Uniforce Zine book while the next two went on. I DGAF about any of the vets in them really. 

- Hey it's Dark Order and they're all aggro now. I guess Stu Grayson broke up with em. It's still gonna be real hard to wipe the memory of lunch with Brodie Lee on BTE for me.

- God DAMN that is a long Cesaro interview. 

- Billie Starkz is 18, good lord. I know everything is a lot safer these days but can you imagine growing up in "da biz"? Caprice: "She ain't even wipin' the boogers, Riccaboni!" They're letting Billie win matches which is nice for her I suppose, moreso that she's being stuck with Athena as a weirdo odd-couple. 

- And there's another gal I miss in Leyla Hirsch. She breaks down Rachel Ellering's arm and subs her in a nice little match. How old is Rachel? Because we all know Paul Ellering is fucking OLD.

- Dalton Castle comes in dressed like an uberqueer version of circa-1979 Ozzy Osbourne, acting like he's on a similar amount of coke. I'm very happy he seems healthy, or healthier than he was anyway. 

- So, Tony Nese and Metalik have history, apparently from forgotten shows like 205Live and Main Event. Nese hangs Metalik up and does a hilarious exercise move/kick thing to him. Never underestimate Tony's talent at ring comedy. Metalik hits a big Asai that has his shin smack the crap outta Nese's back. 

Christ, they filmed this at Greensboro Coliseum before Dynamite or Collision or whatever last week? I guess without the between-match segments it was shorter but this felt like a bit of a chore. I see why Matt likes it so much because it's basically ROarkevation, all the undercard talent is on here mixed in with the ROH leftovers. Nese being a jerk to the crowd and Athena/Billy seem to be the only angles going here and everything else is random. I'm not so sure I want to pay for this but it's not like I'm breaking what little bank I have left, yet. We'll see. At least it was nice to see where they're hiding all the women!

[DreamBroken]

Slightly extra long episode this week at 2 hours 15. Gravity/Gringo was a wild opener. Loved Gravity's over the post diving rana. The not quite sunset flip looked rough. Thought Gringo's "torture rack superplex" as it was called, could've been the finish but I liked Gravity's super samoan drop leading in to the finish this time after the near fall last week.

Always good to see Silas Young. Welcome back again Griff Garrison and welcome back Madison Rayne!

Athena was extra killer and I'm loving the whole Athena/Billie/Renegades angle. Athena was hilarious, Billie looked great throughout, and I always enjoy the Renegades. The women's division in general looking great and stacked. I was shocked to see Lady Frost get the quick win over Trish Adora, didn't expect that at all but I love seeing Kiera get back in the mix now. Leyla and Rachel matched up nicely, would like to see more from them. 

Fun trios sprint. Nese/Metalik felt kind of random as the main event but solid overall. Really dug the intense Claudio promo, great stuff there. Also dug Shane Taylor's promo, hyped for him against Joe.

[Eivion]

2 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

How old is Rachel? Because we all know Paul Ellering is fucking OLD.

Rachel is 30. Paul 69. He just looks like he is in his 80s.

[Curt McGirt]

Well damn, I'm even way older than her. Sumbitch. 

[Matt D]

Picture perfect 40 minutes of wrestling to start. Something for everyone, a lot of it things you can't get anywhere else.

• Gravity vs Gringo Loco was a bit much for me. Maybe five absolutely breathtaking or crazy "look away" spots. My headcanon has Gravity winning solely because he toned it down and hit a couple of things that weren't crazy so he could properly capitalize on them as opposed to both guys paying for the super high risk stuff. Gringo Loco is really a singular talent in his basing.
• Woods vs Young was worked hard and the announcers got over how personal it was. Young looks and is presented like Jake but he does front handsprings and it's all discombobulating but in the pure rules setting, he's a bit more grounded and I think the act works better. Again, perfect story beat where Woods, despite claiming he wants to prove himself in this arena more seriously, is the one who went right to the KO punch, eating the warning and taking the win.
• Athena vs Brittany Jade was a little personal too since Caprice had a hand in her training? and because Athena menaced Ian because he doesn't give her a rap on the way down. She's starting to get over just a little bit more with slight babyface tendencies but can and does flip the switch in the most brutal ways. We'd see the Starkz story develop as the night went on. What 18 year old doesn't get in over her head with some absolutely deranged person just because she doesn't know better, right? Athena's act is so good that they really could just give her all the belts like Kenny Omega and have her work every show and they'd be better off than they are now.
• Stokley/Joe vs the Boys was worked more or less exactly like it should be. Stoke did one thing, celebrated too much, paid for it, connived to get the ref distracted and get Joe back in there and the finish was pretty hilarious. It couldn't possibly live up to my expectations but how could it? I hope we get Dalton vs Stokley next.

I'll probably watch more later but I want to leave this as a perfect wrestling TV show (including the Maria/Leyla promo and the Billie/Renegades bit) for now. If they did commercials between matches, this probably would have gotten us to 60 minutes.

[Curt McGirt]

7 hours ago, Matt D said:

What 18 year old doesn't get in over her head with some absolutely deranged person just because she doesn't know better, right?

Here, here. Not just young women either... 

The funniest part of Ian and Athena was Ian digging down just far enough under the desk with, like, his notepad or whatever over him, and he just freezes in position as if she won't strike a non-moving target. "If I don't move, she can't see me!" It's really ridiculous. 

[Zimbra]

Ian has quoted both the New Pornographers and MF DOOM on commentary in the past week I could not love that man more.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Zimbra

[Curt McGirt]

What was the DOOM one?

[Zimbra]

He mentioned Rap Snitch Knishes during  the Gringo Loco match on ROH.

[Log]

11 hours ago, Zimbra said:

Ian has quoted both the New Pornographers and MF DOOM on commentary in the past week I could not love that man more.

Jon Wurster of The Mountain Goats (and formerly of Superchunk, Bob Mould’s band and The Best Show) posted the clip of Ian talking about New Pornographers on Instagram. Ian commented on the post saying he’d work in a Mountain Goats reference. Wurster responded that they do have quite a few songs about pro wrestling. 

[Octopus]

@The Natural and other ROHers, what was Danielson’s best ROH rivalry/ series of matches with? McGuinness, Morishima, KENTA, Joe, or even someone else?

[The Natural]

9 hours ago, Octopus said:

@The Natural and other ROHers, what was Danielson’s best ROH rivalry/ series of matches with? McGuinness, Morishima, KENTA, Joe, or even someone else?

Good question. I'd probably go with Morishima.