Ring of Honor - 2023

[Technico Support]

8 hours ago, Shartnado said:

I have said very bad things about the viewing experience of HonorClub before. I need to take some of that back right now and admit that it was partially me being a total moron with technology (in this case, and others). By changing settings on my tablet (one F'n click at that) I can now access a proper full-screen mode which makes the viewing experience already about 100% better and if I can get it to work properly on screen mirroring, I can "watch ROH" on TV, which I wanted in the first place. With this issue now at least partially solved, I'm totally keeping the service for now. This still doesn't solve the issue of limited time to watch wrestling in general, but having an access to best years of ROH is still something wonderful to have for a rainy day.

The only technical issues I have is that some cards are just "click and watch the full card" while others are broken down into individual matches.  Inconsistency like that bothers me.  Also, there's no decent way to fast forward quickly (I have an Apple TV and an iPhone for reference).  It's either click +10 seconds over and over or drag the bar and hope for the best.  Even Highspots has one click for 2x, again for 4x, and so on.

[DreamBroken]

Claudio's challenger confirmed coming off the events of Dynamite

 

Spoiler

 

 

[The Natural]

33 minutes ago, DreamBroken said:

Claudio's challenger confirmed coming off the events of Dynamite

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Spoiler

https://twitter.com/AEW/status/1681901358864015360

NSFW.

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by The Natural

[Matt D]

Here's what we know:

• Athena vs Willow: There's no reason not to make this the main event at this point, especially if Willow's winning but even if she isn't. I'm a little torn on whether she should win or not. Athena's having an all-time run as champion and I don't know if the act could work as well on the "main roster." She's maybe the perfect opponent for Statlander, but this early into Stat's reign, she'd probably be a one match PPV feud or a quick flip flop title switch. Willow has a ton of momentum from the Owen and the NJPW Strong reign. I think she's pretty easy to protect as an over babyface who loses sometimes though. I was ready for Willow to win at Final Battle if they did a story of positive vs negativity throughout the year but they haven't really done something overt. This probably should also have some gimmick attached to it as well. 
• Claudio vs PAC: I want to go back and watch their NXT match from 2013 maybe. They should pair up extremely well, between how hard they can hit and Claudio being one of the best bases ever. It's a duct taped together match though, without time to build it. Also, no clear babyface. They should give it time and have the match speak for itself.
• Shibata vs Garcia: Is Garcia going to dance in Shibata's face? Yikes. This is the only match with real build and it should be good. If Shibata is going to remain available more often than not, keep the belt on him. This isn't Garcia's end goal.
• 4 Team Tag: Lucha Bros were unavailable because of picking up Saturday dates. That shouldn't be a problem moving forward. Still don't keep the titles on them. This should be big stupid wrestling. I'm happy if any of the other three teams win. At some point Chuck/Trent need to win a title and when that happens, there should be a bigger, more meaningful build to it. I imagine Lucha Bros retain since Khan will feel like he hadn't gotten a chance to use them in ROH properly yet. They're an attraction that don't need titles though. 
• TV Title Match: I know who gets this but I'd rather not spoil it. Either way, it's a very fresh match, but one that feels like a TV show main event instead of a PPV match; maybe that's ok with the TV title though? This is another one where Khan said he had different plans but they blew up in some ridiculous manner

Basically, they need to book some fairly spectacular stuff on the undercard here. Some people are excited about the tag or about PAC and I can see why but it's not nearly enough.

[Curt McGirt]

Between those two guys I don't think there's a way to have a clearly defined heel and face. They're both kinda assholes. 

[Curt McGirt]

Wasn't there a book someone wrote about ECW or something involving WWECW where they went through the whole disaster of that PPV in detail and it just sounded like the most terrible shit ever? But I mean not like it's you can't just look at the results and just say "they booked THESE guys?!"

[The Natural]

10 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Wasn't there a book someone wrote about ECW or something involving WWECW where they went through the whole disaster of that PPV in detail and it just sounded like the most terrible shit ever? But I mean not like it's you can't just look at the results and just say "they booked THESE guys?!"

Haven't read the book but oh, boy December to Dismember 2006 is one of the worst wrestling shows ever.

[The Natural]

2 hours ago, Matt D said:

Here's what we know:

• Athena vs Willow: There's no reason not to make this the main event at this point, especially if Willow's winning but even if she isn't. I'm a little torn on whether she should win or not. Athena's having an all-time run as champion and I don't know if the act could work as well on the "main roster." She's maybe the perfect opponent for Statlander, but this early into Stat's reign, she'd probably be a one match PPV feud or a quick flip flop title switch. Willow has a ton of momentum from the Owen and the NJPW Strong reign. I think she's pretty easy to protect as an over babyface who loses sometimes though. I was ready for Willow to win at Final Battle if they did a story of positive vs negativity throughout the year but they haven't really done something overt. This probably should also have some gimmick attached to it as well. 
• Claudio vs PAC: I want to go back and watch their NXT match from 2013 maybe. They should pair up extremely well, between how hard they can hit and Claudio being one of the best bases ever. It's a duct taped together match though, without time to build it. Also, no clear babyface. They should give it time and have the match speak for itself.
• Shibata vs Garcia: Is Garcia going to dance in Shibata's face? Yikes. This is the only match with real build and it should be good. If Shibata is going to remain available more often than not, keep the belt on him. This isn't Garcia's end goal.
• 4 Team Tag: Lucha Bros were unavailable because of picking up Saturday dates. That shouldn't be a problem moving forward. Still don't keep the titles on them. This should be big stupid wrestling. I'm happy if any of the other three teams win. At some point Chuck/Trent need to win a title and when that happens, there should be a bigger, more meaningful build to it. I imagine Lucha Bros retain since Khan will feel like he hadn't gotten a chance to use them in ROH properly yet. They're an attraction that don't need titles though. 
• TV Title Match: I know who gets this but I'd rather not spoil it. Either way, it's a very fresh match, but one that feels like a TV show main event instead of a PPV match; maybe that's ok with the TV title though? This is another one where Khan said he had different plans but they blew up in some ridiculous manner

Basically, they need to book some fairly spectacular stuff on the undercard here. Some people are excited about the tag or about PAC and I can see why but it's not nearly enough.

Only interested in the first three matches you mention. I'm definitely in the keep the ROH Women's World Championship on Athena. The only way I wouldn't is putting the AEW Women's World Championship on Athena ASAP as she deserves a bigger stage/championship.

[Dolphman 3000]

4 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Haven't read the book but oh, boy December to Dismember 2006 is one of the worst wrestling shows ever.

I think tomorrow night's going to be closer to Great American Bash 1991 where Flair was heavily advertised but then skipped town for WWE

The caveat being there's 0% chance the ROH crowd turns on PAC-Claudio like the WCW crowd turned on Luger-Windham

[Elsalvajeloco]

4 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

I think tomorrow night's going to be closer to Great American Bash 1991 where Flair was heavily advertised but then skipped town for WWE

The caveat being there's 0% chance the ROH crowd turns on PAC-Claudio like the WCW crowd turned on Luger-Windham

So not like GAB 1991 at all?

You have to really try hard to get where WCW was with Great American Bash 1991. That's a level of self sabotage that's hard to recreate.

[Curt McGirt]

It was the Hardcore History book with Sabu on the cover. 

[The Natural]

7 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

So not like GAB 1991 at all?

You have to really try hard to get where WCW was with Great American Bash 1991. That's a level of self sabotage that's hard to recreate.

Our very own, @Technico Support was in attendance for WCW The Great American Bash 1991. Which was worse, that or Interstellar (2014)?

Love you, mate xxx.

Edited July 20, 2023 by The Natural

[Matt D]

They added

• Gravity vs Kommander: A match! I hope PAC punks out Gravity.
• Righteous/Stu vs Dark Order in a Fight Without Honor: I wanted this at least. It's the only match they've really built to.
• Mogul Embassy vs Master Wato, Leon Ruffin, Ryusuki Taguchi: Wato just won the Super Juniors right? Kind of random assortment but that's the ROH six-man division for you.

I was thinking about the card like this: "If this was in Baltimore and I could go on a Friday night, would I be excited for it?" And the answer is a no, unfortunately. I don't think it's nearly as fresh or strong as the last few ROH PPV Cards.

Zero Hour is all solid ROH TV matches:

• Andretti/Martin vs Workhorsemen
• Hirsch vs Adora
• Fox vs Shane Taylor
• Josh Woods vs Tracy Williams

It just all feels a level below what we've been getting.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Matt D

[odessasteps]

You never went to an ROH TV taping in Bawmur, did you? 

[DreamBroken]

Opening solid extended squash from Garcia further building to his Pure challenge. Adora vs. Utami was awesome! Utami not getting an entrance made me think she might not go over here, both looked great throughout and I'm glad they got Utami in for this while she was here. My favorite match of the night.

Dalton/Taylor was fun. Bangarang finish looked impressive on Shane. Dalton vs Joe should be a blast tomorrow. 

Josh Woods looked properly killer in his squash, then Athena absolutely annihilated Nikita. Loved Athena not even bothering to change out of her street clothes. 

Huge pop for a Nicole Matthews appearance! Fun little match with Legit Leyla.  Leyla/Adora could be awesome on the DBD preshow if it gets a decent amount of time, same goes for Shane Taylor vs AR Fox sounds good. 

Fun quick 4 way tag main event. I hoped the Infantry would get in the tag title match coming off their big win over the Kingdom last month, but they didn't even make the card. at least Adora got on the preshow. Overall feels like DBD came together decently all things considered and feel like it will deliver a good show, looking forward to it. 

they announced DBD will be available for purchase on Honor Club as an alternative to BleacherReport

Edited July 21, 2023 by DreamBroken

[Technico Support]

21 hours ago, The Natural said:

Our very own, @Technico Support was in attendance for WCW The Great American Bash 1991. Which was worse, that or Interstellar (2014)?

Love you, mate xxx.

I'd gladly sit through Bash 91 again before Interstellar! 

[Technico Support]

11 hours ago, odessasteps said:

You never went to an ROH TV taping in Bawmur, did you? 

I went to two of them!  I got to meet GENE SNITSKY, of all people, who was just kinda hanging out and talking to a friend of mine who worked at the venue.

[Matt D]

12 hours ago, odessasteps said:

You never went to an ROH TV taping in Bawmur, did you? 

No. My only regret is not seeing RUSH in that setting but a lot of it was during the height of the pandemic and the stuff before that was very Marty Scrull-focused or whatever and I think it would have been too big of a turnoff.

I could see them coming back to Baltimore for a PPV though and dependent on the day of the week and the card and what else I had going on, I'd consider it. I don't think I'd attend over this card however. If they were to run Claudio vs Eddie at Final Battle and there was a fairly clear sense that this might be Eddie's moment, I'd be tempted.

Also want to edit in that I think this PPV will be good!

I just don't think it will be special and I do think the last few have felt special in their own way.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Matt D

[odessasteps]

I think I tried getting you To go with me when Hechicero & UG came in for that 6 man tournament. But don't remember exactly why you didn't go.

[Matt D]

48 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I think I tried getting you To go with me when Hechicero & UG came in for that 6 man tournament. But don't remember exactly why you didn't go.

Probably some sort of parental obligation.

Anyway, Tony has to not be a coward tonight and let Athena main event. It has more story and build, and they deserve it.

[sabremike]

On 7/20/2023 at 11:38 AM, Dolphman 3000 said:

I think tomorrow night's going to be closer to Great American Bash 1991 where Flair was heavily advertised but then skipped town for WWE

The caveat being there's 0% chance the ROH crowd turns on PAC-Claudio like the WCW crowd turned on Luger-Windham

Jim Kramer looks at this and goes "Holy shit that's an awful prediction".

[Matt D]

ROH TV This week was really good! Best show in a while.

Garcia had a surprisingly competitive Pure match. Utami vs Trish was very good; some great chain wrestling early. Shane Taylor vs Dalton was my favorite Castle match in a long time. Gnarly Woods squash. Great stuff with Athena and then Willow. The best I've ever seen the Righteous look against the Boys. Solid match between Hirsch and Matthews. Fun four way tag with the fans being up for the Bollywood Boys. Everything was either building towards the PPV, was very good, or was short and to the point. Let me put it this way. It felt like a real TV show and not just a bunch of wrestling.

[evanknight]

The weird thing to me isn't just the lack of build to the PPV, but how the things they have build don't play out there. Seems like the Athena/Hogan street fight could have been on the PPV; Willow deserves a proper program with her, especially given how good the little they had on twitter was. Embassy would have gotten way more out of a PPV match with the Daniels/Sydal/Martin trio after they one a few tv matches then they did as is and with this odd PPV match, IMO. Then guys like the Infantry, Neese & Davari, etc have been getting tv time and then nothing on the big show day. Looks like it will be a solid show, just not one I am dropping money for and going out of my way to see. 

Anyway, does the Kingdom get the win here? Were their losses to the Infantry and Martin/Andretti, and then the competitive match with the Boys "division builders"?

Shae Taylor needs something to go along with his forearm for it to be a finisher. I don't imagine him doing a full spin or anything, but it seems off as is. 

[DreamBroken]

Athena/Willow just absolutely KILLED IT in the main event! What a match. I was fully prepared for Willow to take it, being the main event and then once the O-Face was kicked out of it that was it but then Athena kicks out of the Babe with the Powerbomb, epic turn around. Amazing struggle to the finish had me on the edge of my seat. Athena is the f'n best, this was all around awesome.  I absolutely loved the callbacks with both busting out finishers from the classic Women of Honor, great stuff. Loved this. Can't imagine who Athena gets next but looking forward to it.

Shibata/Garcia was my 2nd favorite match of the night. Great match as expected with the absolute PEAK of the Garcia Dance, hilarious shit in every variation of it.

Claudio/Pac was fun, loved the post-match chaos setting up a lot of different stuff. Death Triangle reunion vs BCC with Best Friends beefing with the Lucha Bros too over the tag 4 way from earlier. 

Wasn't expecting much from Dark Order/Righteous but that turned in to a hell of a violent blowoff to that whole deal, great work.  Embassy defense felt like a random trios tag but I loved the sudden finish on Ruffin. 

Joe/Castle was pretty solid but thought the finish was rather weak with unnecessary outside shenanigans.  Fun opener in Gravity/Komander and now we Gravity vs The Man He Forgot on Dynamite!

also shoutout to Adora/Leyla on the preshow, had high hopes for that and thought they delivered a super solid match and I'll always pop for a Skye Blue appearance! Shane Taylor vs AR Fox also ruled.  Fun show overall for sure with a spectacular main event.

[Matt D]

I'm happy to say that Tony Khan is not a coward.