SPIDER-MAN: NO WAY HOME - 12/15/2021

[The Natural]

On 12/18/2021 at 1:22 PM, The Natural said:

My bro, Aje said Spider-Man No Way Home is "f'n superb, top tier MCU and wants to see it again." I'm going tomorrow with my Dad at 3pm. Quickly scrolled down to the end of the topic to submit this reply.

I watched Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021) and here's my non spoiler review.

Spider-Man: No Way Home starts where Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019) finished as Peter Parker's secret identity as Spider-Man becomes public knowledge through Quentin Beck/Mysterio. Spider-Man: No Way Home covers the fallout. I thought this was a great film for the performances, the direction, the ramifications resulting from it and the callbacks to previous Spider-Man films. One appearance made me punch the air. I'm surprised the film turned out as well as it did with all the different components coming together as it has. The film has a long running time but it flew by. Spider-Man: No Way Home makes my top five Marvel Studios Marvel Cinematic Universe Movies:

5. Avengers Assemble (2012).
4. Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021).
3. Avengers: Infinity War (2018).
2. Captain America: Civil War (2016).
1. Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014).

The Spider-Man Home Trilogy takes its place among the great ones and rarer still, the third film is the best of the three. Afterwards I went to eat at my favourite place with my Dad/Pete Clay before closing time.

Edited December 20, 2021 by The Natural

[The Natural]

Spoiler thoughts:

Spoiler

I punched the air when Matt Murdock appeared played by Charlie Cox. Daredevil S1 and S3 are the two best live actions Marvel has ever done.

The various callbacks from the exchange between Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man and Otto Octavius/Doctor Octopus with the Danny Elfman main Spider-Man theme to Norman Osborn's "I'm something of a scientist myself".

Andrew Garfield, Willem Dafoe, Charlie Cox, Alfred Molina and Tom Holland stood out. I'd give MVP to Garfield.

Aunt May's death was poignant.

Doctor Strange lackadaisical with how he gets distracted by Parker's jabber causing the spell to be corrupt.

The ramifications, Peter Parker's identity is a secret again but at a cost of his loved ones unaware he's Spider-Man, keeping that from MJ/Ned/Happy Hogan so they're not in danger. The way the film finishes acts as a possible end for this iteration of Spider-Man and a clean slate for the next creative team. The new fabric costume looks great.

 

[JonnyLaw]

10 hours ago, Raziel said:

So, am I the only one that has an issue with the spells?  The first spell, Strange was just going to wipe the fact that Peter was Spider-man from everythings.  So, why in the climax did Strange have to basically wipe any trace of Peter even existing outside of Spider-man from this Universe?  That seemed a bit overkill and, whilst kinda on brand for Peter's martyrdom, seemed too excessive.  Like, not even fucking Mephisto wiped Peter out of existance in the comics.

The first spell screwed up and magic is hard to control and do well even if you know what you’re doing and are doing it right.  Weird shit happens.

They couldn’t just redo the first spell to undo the messed up first spell, so the “stronger” second spell was needed to undo it.

tldr; comic book logic

[JonnyLaw]

If this was a Disney+ show, people would be speculating that 

Spoiler

Aunt May’s death would be leading to a deal with a finally appearing Mephisto.

 

[The Natural]

My updated MCU rankings would look like:

26. The Incredible Hulk (2008).

25. Thor: The Dark World (2013).

24. Iron Man 2 (2010).

23. Iron Man 3 (2013).

22. Ant-Man and the Wasp (2018).

21. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (2017).

20. Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015).

19. Captain Marvel (2019).

18. Guardians of the Galaxy (2014).

17. Black Widow (2021).

16. Ant-Man (2015).

15. Thor (2011).

14. Doctor Strange (2016).

13. Black Panther (2018).

12. Shang-Chi and the Ten Rings (2021).

11. Spider-Man: Far From Home (2019).

10. Spider-Man: Homecoming (2017).

9. Thor: Ragnarok (2017).

8. Captain America: The First Avenger (2011).

7. Avengers: Endgame (2019).

6. Iron Man (2008).

5. Avengers Assemble (2012).

4. Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021).

3. Avengers: Infinity War (2018).

2. Captain America: Civil War (2016).

1. Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014).

I'll see Eternals when it hits Disney+ next month and I'll have seen them all.

[Mario]

12 hours ago, Raziel said:

So, am I the only one that has an issue with the spells?  

Nope.  I enjoyed the movie a lot but it certainly wasn't for the writing.  Too many fill-in-the-blanks moments and leaps of logic for my liking.  The second spell opened up a lot of questions and I dunno why Dr. Strange was still cooperating with Peter at the end.  Parker messes up the first spell by acting like a child and goes out of his way to prevent Doc from setting the multiverse back the way it was.  I'd be wiping my hands of him first chance I got.

Electro being in the movie was... odd.  The movie even established Electro didn't know Spider-Man's secret identity in his world (nor did he learn it in the Garfield movie), so I couldn't figure why the spell worked on him except the producers wanted to toss Jamie Foxx a paycheck.  The end-credits scene is a headscratcher for the same reason though I'm willing to go with some timey wimey explanation that 

Spoiler

either Eddie Brock somehow learned Spider-Man's identity offscreen in his world or the symbiote somehow knows Pete is Spider-Man.  Probably the latter.

 

Wondering if the second spell didn't screw over all the multiversal Spider Men.  Maybe the next movie should be the Spider-Men from other timelines banding together to beat the stuffing out of Peter #1.  Actually, I'm wondering how, if the spell completely removed Peter Parker from that reality, he is able to get money and afford and apartment and the like.  People who never existed don't usually have credit histories and social security cards.

On the whole, I enjoyed the movie a lot.  Action sequences delivered and most anything with the villains or the alternate Spideys worked.  But the story is actually a worse take on One More Day, imo.  At least OMD rationalized Pete's idiocy and martyr complex by having him lose Aunt May at the outset, thus putting him in a questionable frame of mind throughout.  

[Raziel]

The more I think about it, the more I think while it was a really good movie, it did NOT fit in with the rest of the MCU as a whole and is probably the worst MCU movie continuity wise with the other 22 movies and series.  Especially with how violently everyone turned on Peter while the simultaneous canonization of Steve and Tony (and the rest of the OG Avengers, since Clint is walking around Mid-town getting freebies) bordering on worship (they were putting the goddamn shield on the Statue of LIberty).  Also along with, ya know, EVERY OTHER SUPERHERO'S (except Daredevil) IDENTIY BEING KNOWN and such.  

[JonnyLaw]

Spider-Man was accused of and credibly framed for murdering another hero and causing massive collateral damage.  Most of the other heroes who could vouch for him are gone, in hiding, or off world, and he’s not one of the Battle of NY heroes who every one saw save the world.  

[Raziel]

Multiple Government agencies had PBP of Battle of Earth (hell, fucking Darcy knew specifics), Damage Control knew Spider-man existed for a while Mysterio came out of nowhere. Spider-man was one of the people trying to keep the fucking Infinity Gauntlet from Thanos, Mysterio was pitching his "I'm an interdimentional traveller".  The straight out fervor Damage Control and the FBI came after Peter might've made more sense if they referenced being touchy because of Westview, like at all.  Instead it was just a long set up for Peter to trigger OMD because he couldn't get into College.

That not even getting into the lack of continuity with the other Spider films.  Like I said, great movie for what it was, poor writing to get to super melo-drama that wasn't earned.

[odessasteps]

I lucked out and one of the local theaters had an afternoon showing with only about 10 pre orders, so taking the leap of faith.

[_MJ_]

Spider-Man still the G.O.A.T superhero. Sorry Batman fans.

Yes, I'm still an 8 year old inside arguing about dumb shit.

Edited December 20, 2021 by _MJ_

[odessasteps]

I agree that it's best not to think about the plot mechanics too closely. 

I think the thing I liked best was seeing rehabilitated villains , especially guys that had been occasional faces in the comics, like Sandman. 

Also enjoyed Old Man Spidey and Emo Spidey. It would have been funny for them to have references villains they fought that weren't actually in any of the movies. 

Also: Is it wrong that I wanted to see a cameo from Nicholas Hammond? 
 

p.s. I loved the super brief Rogers: the Musical Easter egg. 

Edited December 20, 2021 by odessasteps

[John from Cincinnati]

According to something called Murphy's Multiverse, Sony wants to produce a solo Electro movie starring Jamie Foxx. 

[odessasteps]

Now that he doesn’t have to be blue, Foxx might be game. 

[The Natural]

Through a pandemic.

[The Natural]

Spoiler

 

[The Natural]

Spoiler

The Green Goblin is among the best MCU villains with Wilson Fisk (still my #1), Thanos, Loki, Kilgrave, Killmonger, Vulture, Hela, Alexander Pierce and Mysterio. Remember when MCU had a villain problem with the exception of Loki?

 

[AxB]

Considering how a big part of this movie was about fate being inexorable, and that every Spider-Man has a painful loss in their life... but also GarfieldParker mentioned that his MJ was called Gwen Stacy. So, if HollandParker subsequently meets the MCU versions of Gwen (or the Osborns, or whoever) will he think it's his destiny to get involved there? 

[nate]

14 hours ago, _MJ_ said:

Spider-Man still the G.O.A.T superhero. Sorry Batman fans.

Yes, I'm still an 8 year old inside arguing about dumb shit.

Well, "MJ", you might be a bit biased.

[COLETTI]

Saw it with the family last night, really liked it a lot, but there was one thing that I'm still confused by and I'm sure we'll be subject of discussion for the foreseeable future... The spell that Strange casts at the end, wiping people's memory, does that also destroy all physical evidence of Peter's existence? I mean it would have to, otherwise Ned or MJ or tons of people would have photos of Peter Parker on their phones, in yearbooks, they would be school records, etc etc... Does Peter still have a social security number? Stuff like that is just mind-boggling and somewhat horrifying to consider.

[RandomAct]

I just interpreted the spell as Peter Parker being a nobody, not being erased from existence. Like, he still has birth records and all that, but anyone who knew him before, doesn't. Like, I'm sure the Avengers(or what is left of them) still works with Spider-Man, but as was mentioned earlier, anyone who knew his identity is out of the equation. Brother still has to work and have a credit score.

[Raziel]

Apparently no one at his high school knows him or has records, as he had a GED guide when he hit his apartment.

[RonL21]

I'm one of the very few that actually liked Ben Affleck's DareDevil (2003), particularly the superior R-Rated Director's Cut version which had the subplot with Coolio's character and fixed a lot of the wonky CGI.  I was wondering if Jon Favreau asked to be in the scene with Matt, since he was Foggy in the 2003 movie.

Edited December 21, 2021 by RonL21

[COLETTI]

1 hour ago, RandomAct said:

I just interpreted the spell as Peter Parker being a nobody, not being erased from existence. Like, he still has birth records and all that, but anyone who knew him before, doesn't. Like, I'm sure the Avengers(or what is left of them) still works with Spider-Man, but as was mentioned earlier, anyone who knew his identity is out of the equation. Brother still has to work and have a credit score.

So that's just it - if he's just a nobody to even those who knew him best, what about them having this stranger on their social media friend list? Or, as I put earlier, a bunch of pictures hanging out with this nobody? It would have to go beyond simply wiping people's memories to actually work. So yeah, that one had me confused on the drive home, and I suppose they can get there completely ignore it or pull it out sometime in the future if they want to have somebody "remember" him. 

I did notice that GED book which was a little indicator, I suppose. So maybe Strange could enact a spell to be nuanced enough that it would at least leave Peter with a social security number and some other basic documents, otherwise he'd be kind of fucked.

[RandomAct]

5 minutes ago, christopher.annino said:

So that's just it - if he's just a nobody to even those who knew him best, what about them having this stranger on their social media friend list? Or, as I put earlier, a bunch of pictures hanging out with this nobody? It would have to go beyond simply wiping people's memories to actually work. So yeah, that one had me confused on the drive home, and I suppose they can get there completely ignore it or pull it out sometime in the future if they want to have somebody "remember" him. 

I did notice that GED book which was a little indicator, I suppose. So maybe Strange could enact a spell to be nuanced enough that it would at least leave Peter with a social security number and some other basic documents, otherwise he'd be kind of fucked.

Right. That apartment he got wasn't the nicest thing ever, but it also wasn't the dump that Tobey Parker lived in, so I doubt he found someone operating under the table like that. He also has to pay for it somehow, and I'm not sure what kind of freelance work he'd be able to get. Maybe Tony left a trust fund for when he turned 18?  I get the feeling that we aren't supposed to look this deep into it lol.