Hamhock Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Agreed, and by 1983 several of them were part of the “Wheeze Kids” Phillies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdA Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Yeah, the Parker thing is just...OSJ forgetting his meds or something. Not sure what is going on there. In fairness Parker is right on that line of guys who maybe would not be terribly offensive in a Harold Baines as HOFer world. But if you're going for a 70's OFer not in, you're better off picking a fight for Dwight Evans, Reggie Smith or Rusty Staub. And the Reds thing....just...no. No. MAYBE you could squint and say Parker helped the 90 team in that he was there as the young players who made that core was coming up - AND was traded for Jose Rijo. Otherwise...no. Parker did nothing for the BRM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Dave Parker WAR: 40.1 AB: 9358 R: 1272 H: 2712 BA .290 HR 339 RBI 1493 SB 154 OBP .339 SLG .471 OPS .810 OPS+ 121 Gary Sheffield WAR 60.5 AB 9217 R 1636 H 2689 BA .292 HR 509 RBI 1676 SB 253 OBP .393 SLG .514 OPS .907 OPS+ 140 So yes - Parker should definitely be below Sheffield but if Parker is the floor 8425056636 OFs are getting in 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdA Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Shhhhh. That will just lead to me having to point out that IF one WERE going to pick a guy who actually contributed to the BRM, then George Foster has Parker on WAR - 44.2 to 40.1. Grain of salt with WAR of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contentious C Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Well, someone else mentioned WAA as a stat that reveals how out of line Baines was with respect to being deserving the HOF - he was a 2.1 after adjusting for the average RF/DH. Parker's a 6.5 for his career. That's...not good. Sheffield, on the other hand, despite his numerous defensive liabilities in RF, and LF, and SS, and 3B, is a 26.0. Dwight Evans is a 33.0. Larry Walker sits at 48.3. And the latter two guys were actually good defensively. Clearly, there are bigger omissions than Dave Parker, who probably isn't the RF floor (Sheffield probably is). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Yeah, remembered Parker as being much better than he was with the Reds and Oakland, (I even had my uncle score me one of the Winfield/Parker tees that read "Mama said there'd be Daves like this". And how can you not love a guy whose honest response to a reporter's question, "I see that you're wearing a Star of David, Mr. Parker, are you Jewish?" "No, but my name's David and I'm a star!" Yeah, Shef is probably the ground for RF's but still, you make adjustments for eras and you have to draw the conclusion that Dave Parker was one hell of a ballplayer. I think we can agree that Gary Sheffield was a man born to DH, not since Harmon Killebrew has a player been moved around so much in an effort to see where they'll do the least amount of damage. Manny gets a pass because for every run his atrocious fielding or stupid-ass baserunning would cost you, at the end of the day he'd still come out ahead in runs created. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Okay, I think I've summarized all the players who have been seriously brought up as legit inductees for the HOF including guys from the BBWA ballot that merit discussion but seem unlikely to gain the needed amount of traction. I've left off Mo and 'Gar as even a blind man can see that both men are going in this year, (Mo with likely the highest percentage ever). Feeling generous, I've used 20% on the BBWA ballot or a mentipm on this thread in the interest of completeness, so here goes: Catcher: Bill Freehan, Ted Simmons, Joe Maurer. Thurman Munson. Well, for starters only two of these guys are bonafide catchers, Munson and Freehan; Maurer and Simmons are hybrids, in Simmons' case it helps him, in Maurer's case it fatally wounds him. Maurer's numbers are spectacular as a catcher, but remarkably unspectacular as anything else, so much so that it pulls down any possible HOF discussion and kicks it to the curb like a rowdy drunk I used to pitch out of the Scenic Tavern on a Saturday night. However, Simmons is elevated by his versatility so much so to the point that his HOF cred is enhanced to the point that enshrinement seems long overdue. So let us look at the REAL catchers... By curious coincidence the numbers, taken in context elevate one guy to the point of serious discussion and quash the other guy's beyond any shadow of a doubt. By all means, let us celebrate Bill Freehan's ascension to borderline HOF catcher and let's chant a dirge and finally close the book on HOF discussion for Thurman Munson, who simply has no real argument as a HOFr. The "On track for the HOF" argument does not hold water, we have to evaluate him on what he actually did and the very idea of someone obtaining enshrinement based on 1558 hits and 153 HRs coupled with a thunderous slugging percentage of .410 are, not to put too fine a point on it, but somewhat laughable. However, by equally strange coincidence, casting a somewhat jaundiced eye at Mr. Freehan's number and factoring in both his position played and the era in which he played it he starts to look like everything that Mr. Munson is not. To whit, an elite defensive player with fine offensive production numbers; I'm not totally sold on Freehan as a HOFr, but he's certainly worth a close examination. To be continued... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Reminder that the announcement is this afternoon Based on the public tracker - Mariano and Roy Halladay are locks. Edgar is also pretty much a lock. Mike Mussina is on the borderline. (Basically if he doesn't get in this year, he will get in next year) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I think Mussina will make it in. I was just watching MLB Network and they had him at about 81%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said: I think Mussina will make it in. I was just watching MLB Network and they had him at about 81%. The problem with Moose is the ballots that aren't revealed yet are much more likely to have only 2-4 players listed. It's why Edgar isn't really even a lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Here we go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Boy, this idelson speech is cringe worthy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Just get Moose and Edgar in and I'll be happy. And hopefully we get Walker above 60 percent and he gets a big push next year. EDIT: Fuck Yes. You did good voters save for the insane Vizquel love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, El Dragon said: Just get Moose and Edgar in and I'll be happy. And hopefully we get Walker above 60 percent and he gets a big push next year. It's Edgar, Doc, Moose, and Mo. Mariano got 100%. I'm really happy with the 2019 class, minus Harold Baines, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonL21 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Martinez, Hallady, Mussina, Rivera are your 2019 class 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 100% for Mariano 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 WHOO-HOO!!!! EAT IT EVERYONE!!! MARIANO 4 LIFE!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 1 minute ago, odessasteps said: 100% for Mariano There is something completely hilarious the 1st unanimous vote in the Hall was a Closer. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Once again, I wonder about the one or two people who vote for Clemens but not Bonds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: Once again, I wonder about the one or two people who vote for Clemens but not Bonds. I think there problem might begin with the letter R and end with the letters acism. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 4 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: Once again, I wonder about the one or two people who vote for Clemens but not Bonds. I usually assume there is a personal history like "Bonds cursed at me" or something like that EDIT - or what Dan said 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 I bet there are some voters who voted for Bonds but not Clemens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, odessasteps said: I bet there are some voters who voted for Bonds but not Clemens. Congrats to those who got in but the voters are still beyond trash. Bonds is the best position player since shit at least the 60s. Probably since Babe. Awful that they continue to deny his greatness. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, RIPPA said: I usually assume there is a personal history like "Bonds cursed at me" or something like that EDIT - or what Dan said As a kid I met just about every player in the NL and many in the AL from 1985-96. Barry Bonds is by FAR the biggest asshole I've ever had the misfortune of encountering. And the people citing racism make me chuckle because of a well known story among Mets employees of that era: Mets head groundskeeper Pete Flynn asked Bonds if he could sign a ball for one of his nephews, and Bonds blew him off (and keep in mind Flynn was one of the most beloved figures in Mets history). Flynn figured things out quick, got one of the black members of the crew and had him ask Bonds to sign it. Of course Bonds had no problem signing the ball for him 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Lost in the unanimous decision thing for Mariano as well for an interesting fact: Roy Halladay getting in marks the first time since Rabbit Maranville in 1954 that the BBWAA has posthumously voted a player into the Hall of Fame. (Roberto Clemente got in through a separate special election.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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