The Viceland Wrestling Documentaries

[NoFistsJustFlips]

On 3/22/2024 at 7:57 PM, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

Classic Foley. Puts himself over for carrying Gordy to a good match, then just buries the guy for how much he'd lost a step in the ring, and tells a bunch of stories about him taking drugs from strangers on an airplane. "But I'm always going to be grateful for the kindness he showed me..."

 

Do you just have a dislike of Mick Foley? Or a dislike of Elsalvajeloc? Because what you've been posting kind of comes off as someone with an axe to grind and really shoe-horning that opinion into a situation that doesn't fit. Mick complimented how kind he was. And that somehow crosses a line? Or is what crossed a line him complimenting a man for something that happened in the 80s while also talking bad of something that happened 10 years later in the 90s? I kind of can't follow what the gripe even is here.

Terry Gordy was a great worker before the OD. Terry Gordy was not a great worker after the OD. A man putting over how kind someone was and then saying a negative thing he did like EIGHT years later doesn't make him fake or phony of passive aggressive. To me, it shows a man that hates that the narrative is so negative about Gordy. And that he wanted to balance it by talking about something nice he did. You may have some legitimate Foley issues you've heard or seen before. But this wasn't one.

[Goitre]

On 3/23/2024 at 8:02 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

It's not gossip if the entire show is centered around people discussing things they personally weren't there for

Um...nevermind. You can't possibly untangle that.

I can sorta see where Mr. Monsoon is coming from. Mick Foley made it to the top of the sleaziest, most political, backstabbing, self-serving, dishonest profession, under Vince fucking McMahon of all the rapists, by being Good Guy Mick? Pull the other one, it plays Freebird. It's entirely valid to view his appearance on the Gordy episode poorly

[Elsalvajeloco]

On 3/24/2024 at 9:51 PM, Goitre said:

Um...nevermind. You can't possibly untangle that.

I can sorta see where Mr. Monsoon is coming from. Mick Foley made it to the top of the sleaziest, most political, backstabbing, self-serving, dishonest profession, under Vince fucking McMahon of all the rapists, by being Good Guy Mick? Pull the other one, it plays Freebird. It's entirely valid to view his appearance on the Gordy episode poorly

That's a larger argument though. Every wrestler is disingenuous. Then shit, why are we taking anyone serious here in the first place? Is Foley a nice guy? He's nicer than most. However, I am not judging him by that. I am judging by what I know of him. On his podcast, he's only talked about Gordy in ways that only be construed as nice. I believe he told that same story on Foley is Pod months ago for the King of the Death Match ep. Here? He's only on a show where there are six or seven other talking heads and they're stripping away 2-3 hour interviews with each person and condensing them in what is probably 5 minute bites from everyone. Hell, even the way that particularly is inserted into the episode, it's weird. I think what Mick is referencing is pre OD and they put it in after that part. However, that is literally EVERY episode of Dark Side and the Tales from the Territory shows as well. If this was an episode where only Mick was interviewed, then someone might have a halfway decent complaint but they don't. 

[zendragon]

On 3/21/2024 at 5:35 PM, jm29195 said:

Is Gordy the guy Foley mentioned in his first autobiography, where he said they'd hired an unnamed legend who was totally washed up, and he asked Funk why, and Funk told him that it was just Vince being nice, or something?

Steve Williams or Tenta would fit the timeline more

[Elsalvajeloco]

47 minutes ago, zendragon said:

Steve Williams or Tenta would fit the timeline more

Honestly, there are a lot of guys who fit that label especially as the 90s rolled on. I don't think anyone would say Doc was washed up by the time he came in. Older, probably. 

[odessasteps]

I doubt they thought Doc was washed up if the plan to have him feud with Austin …. Once he won Brawl for All. But the best laid schemes of mice and men and all that.

i can see bringing him back after that (when he was heel JR’s muscle) as making a mercy booking by JR. 

[Cobra Commander]

When did they make the move to hire Bossman?

Just curious since Bossman got to work matches vs Austin and I wonder if they were gonna have Dr. Death be in that sort of hired muscle spot until his injury.

Swat vest Dr. Death would have been a different look from his singlet

[Elsalvajeloco]

I think even if Doc had won Brawl for All or at least looked respectable, it would have been hard to naturally transition him to feuding with Austin cause Austin was so red hot. Hell, even the winner of the tournament who knocked out everyone except one person came out of the tournament cold. Austin would have nixed that one immediately if Vince didn't. Steve Austin wouldn't be out here taking Backdrop Drivers any damn way.

Yeah, it would have been best to just keep Doc out of the tournament and find some bullshit way to make him seem tough. Hell, they gave some reasons certain people pulled out of the tournament or didn't participate at all. They could have done the same with Dr. Death.

[Curt McGirt]

Jim probably knew the score, asked to keep Williams out, and Vince kept him in just to be a dick. 

[Mister TV]

6 hours ago, odessasteps said:

I doubt they thought Doc was washed up if the plan to have him feud with Austin …. Once he won Brawl for All. But the best laid schemes of mice and men and all that.

i can see bringing him back after that (when he was heel JR’s muscle) as making a mercy booking by JR. 

Doc's jock sniffers in the company like JR, Pritchard and Corny are the only ones pushing the Doc was going to feud with Austin take, I'm sure they were constantly in Vince's ear about it but it was never going to happen. Austin was super selective on who he worked with during that time and vetoed Jarrett, Gunn, and maybe a few others, that's why he had so many ppv main events against Undertaker and Foley up to his time off for the neck surgery. Also, if Vince has final say and he totally would have gone with someone that was his "own" creation like Billy Gunn not big in Japan broken down Doc. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

Whoever was in the gravitational pull of Austin had to get on the ground floor. A lot of the guys who ended feuding with Austin (from Foley to Taker to Rock) had some major interaction with Austin since 1997. So it would have been tough to import someone in and be like, "yeah, this is the program now" when there is no level of heat or backstory on them. That and there was no way anyone was going to supersede the much larger story of Austin vs. Mr. McMahon.

That was very much a WCW thing. We sign someone and then they're just interacting with our main eventers for no real natural reason.

[RazorbladeKiss87]

There's a way to it though. Vince could have said he went outside to bring in a killer. Make a deal to show some Japanese footage of Doc killing guys. Austin has to fight for his life.

[Curt McGirt]

Doc was one of those acquisitions where guy has a name so they'll just drop him in cold, give him nothing, he either sinks or swims. Austin was even kinda like that. It's Vince saying "Well the staff likes him, maybe he can move the needle a bit, but I've got my own pet projects first of all." (Like, y'know, the Truth Commission, or Nacho Man vs. the Huckster featuring Billionaire Ted and whatever the name was for poor Okerlund.)

Edited March 26 by Curt McGirt

[Elsalvajeloco]

To their credit though, apparently, Austin in ECW was just a dry run for WWF if you want to believe Bruce. So he had some momentum. By the time WWF took off though, the fans became invested in those characters they became invested in. It's like watching season 3 or 4 of a great show. Unless a new character introduced in later seasons is intriguing (ex. Marlo Stanfield), people usually don't give a damn especially in relation to the characters from earlier seasons.

I think with Doc, he had been gone away from the American scene for long that he seemed like a relic. It's like they took this guy from the late 80s/early 90s and unthawed him from a block of ice and unleashed him into this new world. I know he had a cup of coffee in ECW, but if he had showed up in WCW at some point early in the Nitro run, he would have seemed more relevant when he landed with WWF. Even if Gordy hadn't had that OD, it would have been tough for him too. Some of those guys just stayed away too long. 

As for the Japanese footage, when Wilkes finally came in, they did this whole big package showing his teammates from the University of South Carolina interspersed with clips of the Patriot tagging w/ Kobashi against Misawa and someone (Taue maybe?). That has to be the only time Kobashi and Misawa appeared on WWF TV. So I guess getting footage wasn't that hard as you might imagine. It's just that I dunno if it would have the same effect as it did when they use to show clips of Liger in Japan or when Cactus was wrestling for IWA Japan and FMW.

[No Point Stance]

YouTube is littered with fan-made sizzle reels of wrestlers, including at least two I've seen of Williams looking like a terrifying monster in AJPW. If WWF had wanted to, they absolutely could have gotten him over two fans with maybe two 30-second spots of highlights; build the threat around the possibility of Doc landing the backdrop driver on Austin's recently broken neck (don't forget, Austin never had to take the move, just get waistlocked and fight for the ropes a few times), maybe bring in someone non-cartoony as his mouthpiece, and you've got the makings of a solid six-month run at least. 

[Gorman]

11 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Doc was one of those acquisitions where guy has a name so they'll just drop him in cold, give him nothing, he either sinks or swims. Austin was even kinda like that. It's Vince saying "Well the staff likes him, maybe he can move the needle a bit, but I've got my own pet projects first of all." (Like, y'know, the Truth Commission, or Nacho Man vs. the Huckster featuring Billionaire Ted and whatever the name was for poor Okerlund.)

Scheme Gene!

[Mister TV]

2 hours ago, No Point Stance said:

YouTube is littered with fan-made sizzle reels of wrestlers, including at least two I've seen of Williams looking like a terrifying monster in AJPW. If WWF had wanted to, they absolutely could have gotten him over two fans with maybe two 30-second spots of highlights; build the threat around the possibility of Doc landing the backdrop driver on Austin's recently broken neck (don't forget, Austin never had to take the move, just get waistlocked and fight for the ropes a few times), maybe bring in someone non-cartoony as his mouthpiece, and you've got the makings of a solid six-month run at least. 

Doc was way to broken down for any kind of long run, everyone seems to think 1998 Doc was 1988 Doc, he wasn't. Also, there was no real opening for Doc to feud with Austin in that 1998/1999 fall/winter/spring, the Stone Cold-Undertaker-Kane feud ran to the end of the year, then the build for Austin-Rock at Wrestlemania started, the Austin-Vince matches during that timeframe were part of the build to Mania, Doc has no place expect for a random match on Raw.

[Curt McGirt]

Here we go back to Vince. He probably just told Jim he'd have a run on top with no intention of following through.

[Elsalvajeloco]

I think there was probably a collective feeling among a lot of those foreigners in Japan that now that the American scene was back up and running, it would be time to return and secure spots back home. I mean the days of guys like Vader and Steiners being able to routinely work in Japan all the time and then do some shots stateside between tours was largely over. Unless you were a Foley type guy where you never really left, there really wasn't a place for you. I mean Wilkes didn't do bad for the 3-4 months he was in before the injuries and substance issues got ahold of him, but he probably would have been a hotter commodity when they first wanted to bring him in several years earlier.

I think Doc being used a certain level with top guys was only best case scenario and wishful thinking. With both the Vinces and how WWF TV was being structured, it's hard to see Doc being anything other than a decent midcard guy. That's what Vader was pretty much the last several months of his WWF run.

[ka-to]

6 hours ago, Gorman said:

Scheme Gene!

1-800-Lying-Baldy

[Nice Guy Eddie]

21 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Doc was one of those acquisitions where guy has a name so they'll just drop him in cold, give him nothing, he either sinks or swims. Austin was even kinda like that. It's Vince saying "Well the staff likes him, maybe he can move the needle a bit, but I've got my own pet projects first of all." (Like, y'know, the Truth Commission, or Nacho Man vs. the Huckster featuring Billionaire Ted and whatever the name was for poor Okerlund.)

Scheme Gene

[Peck]

Damn. Can't believe Eddie has Gorman on Ignore. Sad times indeed.

[Cobra Commander]

I missed the first 9-10 minutes of the Brutus episode. I might not have entirely paid attention to the detail about his face being crushed.

You gotta admit, they did one hell of a job on his face. To the point that his face is holding up better than his current wife's face.

[Curt McGirt]

It was hard to watch. The photo of him just looked a little bruised, but I can only imagine the post-surgery ones they didn't show. Really it's worst just looking at the digital scan or whatever that was of the "before" skull (notice, there wasn't an actual X-ray shown that I recall, unless that was supposed to be it) and just imagining it from the details they're giving. Holding your face up with your thumb in your mouth on your palate so you can breathe and speak is fuuuuuuuuuuuucked. If they took a video of that surgery... you could seriously not pay me to watch that.

Bruti actually seems like a solid enough guy. Either Hogan is jealous of the wife, or she hit him up for a payday and he wasn't having it. They (Hogan and Beefcake) could have also had a sexual or quasi-sexual relationship that nobody's talking about, who knows. (It was good seeing Hammer btw. Old and crusty as ever. Meanwhile, Missy Hyatt is clearly the wild aunt with the dirty jokes you wish you had.)

[Nice Guy Eddie]

1 hour ago, Peck said:

Damn. Can't believe Eddie has Gorman on Ignore. Sad times indeed.

No, I don't. Somehow, I just skimmed past it.