HHH in 2000

[tbarrie]

HHH vs Holly I remember being built around Holly's dropkick being a dangerous highspot, which is weird and awesome at the same time, but it's not a missile dropkick, so whatever.

Why do we say "missile dropkick", anyway? Why isn't it just a "top-rope dropkick", like every other move off the top rope?

[_MJ_]

The Rock Vs. Triple-H Ironman match is the most entertaining Ironman match I've seen.  I don't know if it's the best or any of that technical jazz, but it's probably the only Ironman match I would be willing to watch twice, which must count for something.

[Victator]

 

HHH vs Holly I remember being built around Holly's dropkick being a dangerous highspot, which is weird and awesome at the same time, but it's not a missile dropkick, so whatever.

Why do we say "missile dropkick", anyway? Why isn't it just a "top-rope dropkick", like every other move off the top rope?

 

Missile dropkick is when you turn to the side and a regular flying dropkick is when you land on your ass.

[Curt McGirt]

The Rock Vs. Triple-H Ironman match is the most entertaining Ironman match I've seen.  I don't know if it's the best or any of that technical jazz, but it's probably the only Ironman match I would be willing to watch twice, which must count for something.

 

I guess you never saw the Rude vs. Steamboat Iron Man in WCW then.

[EricR]

 

The Rock Vs. Triple-H Ironman match is the most entertaining Ironman match I've seen.  I don't know if it's the best or any of that technical jazz, but it's probably the only Ironman match I would be willing to watch twice, which must count for something.

 

I guess you never saw the Rude vs. Steamboat Iron Man in WCW then.

 

 

 

Yeah I've watched Rude/Steamboat so many times I've lost count. Easily the best. But I assume he meant to imply best *60 Minute* Iron Man match. 

[Matt D]

I would probably be up for watching a few of the Raw/Smackdown HHH matches if other people would too. We could do a whole thing where we all pick a 2000 HHH match a week and see if it holds up and yell at each other about it.

[goodhelmet]

There is too much good stuff out there for me to discover to invest the time in that project. 

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

I would probably be up for watching a few of the Raw/Smackdown HHH matches if other people would too. We could do a whole thing where we all pick a 2000 HHH match a week and see if it holds up and yell at each other about it.

I'll do the legwork if you watch Blackman matches.

[Matt D]

I will slum for the sake of this board. There's a historical significance question here: Does HHH's 2000 hold up? That's a fairly important question I think. Important enough that I'll watch a match a week.

 

I missed the Blackman running joke, though. 

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

It's not a running joke, the early part of 2000 Blackman had a great run in like 8 minute matches with Hardy boys and tags with Al Snow.

YOU COULD SEE HIS BUMPING WAS BETTER THAN TRIPLE H!

[Victator]

Blackman was awesome.

[Matt D]

I just don't get how it fits. Is Blackman the control here?

[The Unholy Dragon]

On one hand, the Armageddon Six Man was very good.On the other hand, it also had Austin, Rock, Angle, Taker, and Rikishi in there, so I don't know how much of that can be directly attributed to HHH.

 

A few of the non-bolded matches aren't so much 'bad' as 'not exceptional' as well, with some of them still in the ***1/2-**** range for those who like star ratings. Easily good enough to hang in the good-great range.He clearly had an amazing PPV year, as well as some standout TV matches that are remembered fondly. I know there's the TV argument but how many TV matches from 2000 do you remember from Rock? Benoit? Jericho? Anyone? PPV is easy because it's got the big stage and results on Wikipedia to reference. I don't know how many wrestlers who have more than a handful of universally remembered great TV matches 13 years later.I dunno. I kinda feel like I'd need an argument for someone with a better 2000 than HHH. And PPV-wise, there aren't many contenders in WWE.

[Victator]

The match where HHH beat Big Show to regain the title is really good. I think he is much better in TV matches as champ vs random challengers than as a big main eventer. The Rumble match with Foley is probably his best work. Because he took most of the punishment until the thumbtacks came out. I have never seen the Hell In a Cell rematch. I think because with an exception or two, I don't care for Cell matches.Arguing about HHH is a lot like trying to argue modern politics with partisans, you are not going to get anything. If someone was mentioned as having a better year than HHH, who is not mainstream. People like FSW are going to cry and holler. While the other side is refusing to even look at the matches again. 

[BatistaWasRight]

HHH vs. Taz while both held World belts was fun, even though there's the subliminal message that WWF is greater than ECW.  I mean, whatever; it gave Taz one of his few big post-'99 moments, and that's pretty cool.

 

I feel like we're the equivalent of those scientists that try to prove things like "Beer Goggles are real."  We're gathering all this data, and at the end most everyone's going to go, "Yeah, Triple H had a good 2000."  

 

I'd be interested in a thread that lists all the good quad-tear Haitch matches and compares them to, say, post-neck surgery Edge or something.  I mean, it can't just be nepotism that kept Triple H in dominance mode throughout the '00s, right?  Do other wrestlers (besides Bret) think he's good?

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

I just don't get how it fits. Is Blackman the control here?

No but if I put the gimmick aside and discuss the pro wres seriously, I want something in return.Which is recognition of 2000 Steve Blackman as a hidden gem.

[Matt D]

Fine. Two matches a week. One HHH, one Blackman. Mix of TV, PPV, any house show footage we have, singles and tags.  We learn different things from different sorts of matches. You set it up and do all the heavy lifting and I'll be there to seriously write this stuff up with you. I assume most of this is available online either as a separate match or as part of a whole show put online, but I suggest aiming towards what is online. I doubt it'll be a huge problem. Everyone here has slightly different criteria so while we might be arguing apples and oranges, I think in total, it'll even out if even a few more people participate. 

 

I have no horse in this race except for that I honestly want to know the answer to the question.

[The Unholy Dragon]

HHH vs. Taz while both held World belts was fun, even though there's the subliminal message that WWF is greater than ECW.  I mean, whatever; it gave Taz one of his few big post-'99 moments, and that's pretty cool.

 

I feel like we're the equivalent of those scientists that try to prove things like "Beer Goggles are real."  We're gathering all this data, and at the end most everyone's going to go, "Yeah, Triple H had a good 2000."  

 

I'd be interested in a thread that lists all the good quad-tear Haitch matches and compares them to, say, post-neck surgery Edge or something.  I mean, it can't just be nepotism that kept Triple H in dominance mode throughout the '00s, right?  Do other wrestlers (besides Bret) think he's good?

 

Well, what I heard was that Austin demanded to put him over in 01 because he felt he was the best wrestler in the company at the time (despite conventional logic having Austin win the blowoff to their feud), but I can't remember the source so who knows how valid that is? I suspect a lot of it comes down to him being one of the few major Attitude Era main event names not to retire in 02-03 as well as his tendancy to attend booking meetings and talk to Vince, as noted in his interview.

[tbarrie]

 

 

HHH vs Holly I remember being built around Holly's dropkick being a dangerous highspot, which is weird and awesome at the same time, but it's not a missile dropkick, so whatever.

Why do we say "missile dropkick", anyway? Why isn't it just a "top-rope dropkick", like every other move off the top rope?

 

Missile dropkick is when you turn to the side and a regular flying dropkick is when you land on your ass.

 

That would suggest Holly's dropkick was in fact a missile dropkick, then.

[Jiji]

"Missile" only applies when it's off the top though.

 

As a fan of pre-quad tear Trips, I didn't think much of the HIAC with Foley. Just a mess and it was never going to live up to the drama of the Rumble match or Foley's HIAC with Undertaker.

[goodhelmet]

 

I just don't get how it fits. Is Blackman the control here?

No but if I put the gimmick aside and discuss the pro wres seriously, I want something in return.Which is recognition of 2000 Steve Blackman as a hidden gem.

 

 

It's nice of you to admit you are all gimmick. Having said that... this is your chance to shine and actually argue for something. I liked your take on the Summerslam match. How about your take on all the others. 

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Might get another one up tonight. Anyone got the Jericho last man standing on YouTube they can post for me? I remember that being ace.

[mco543]

http://youtu.be/e5LzvtePOag

[assfax]

For me It'll always be that Hunter Hearst Helmsly guy turning into a main guy.  Pedigree always looked like a wimpy move that old time lady wrestlers used.  I know Andre did the gooch-style camel-toe neck breaker FUCK OFF..  Or maybe I don't understand the topic. Either way, HHH VERSE Batista Hell In A CELL is the best fight that the NWA never had.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I don't see why the burden of proof should be on the people who believe HHH had a great 2000. It should be a shared burden where there are people arguing against these matches as well. So far the popular opinion in this thread is that either it was a "good year" or a great one.